Not strictly offroad - Grand Cherokee 4.7 vs ML430
Discussion
I quite fancy the idea of a big V8 4x4, and have a budget of about £2.5-3k. These two options have popped up on various Autotrader/EBay searches, but I concede to knowing almost nothing about them.
The "not strictly" caveat is in place because I live in London, and the closest that either will get to "off road" will be the occasional muddy lane. However, I hate potholes and speedbumps, and this seemed to be the right place to ask the question.
Conventional wisdom would suggest that the Mercedes would be the most car-like to drive, although contemporary road-tests don't rate the difference as huge. However, Mercedes of this era (I know, I own one) aren't brilliantly built, and wanting the V8 would place me slap bang in the middle of this period (it was discontinued in 2002). Is the Jeep significantly better-built and/or reliable?
Performance figures (the few I can find) seem to suggest that the Jeep is quicker (a second over a 1/4 mile), in spite of having a similar power/weight ratio (but a little more torque). The tiptronic box in the Mercedes (as I currently have) does have a good degree of appeal, but not something I would choose ahead of a quicker car.
Having seen the troubles that a friend dealt with on a 4.0 RR at similar budget, I feel like I should give them a wide berth. Is there anything else I've missed or should consider? I don't think the budget will stretch to a decent X5 4.4, so I've discounted them.
The "not strictly" caveat is in place because I live in London, and the closest that either will get to "off road" will be the occasional muddy lane. However, I hate potholes and speedbumps, and this seemed to be the right place to ask the question.
Conventional wisdom would suggest that the Mercedes would be the most car-like to drive, although contemporary road-tests don't rate the difference as huge. However, Mercedes of this era (I know, I own one) aren't brilliantly built, and wanting the V8 would place me slap bang in the middle of this period (it was discontinued in 2002). Is the Jeep significantly better-built and/or reliable?
Performance figures (the few I can find) seem to suggest that the Jeep is quicker (a second over a 1/4 mile), in spite of having a similar power/weight ratio (but a little more torque). The tiptronic box in the Mercedes (as I currently have) does have a good degree of appeal, but not something I would choose ahead of a quicker car.
Having seen the troubles that a friend dealt with on a 4.0 RR at similar budget, I feel like I should give them a wide berth. Is there anything else I've missed or should consider? I don't think the budget will stretch to a decent X5 4.4, so I've discounted them.
I assume your talking a Jeep WJ Grand Cherokee ?
I run a 2004 2.7crd (which is a MB engine and gearbox BTW) and after 4 years have no intention of parting with it. The petrol guys really rate the reliability of their engines, so no worries there Id say. Did you know the Euro spec cars were actually built in Austria ? I think it was at a MB owned plant, but that needs confirming.
Apart from a few age related niggles Id say they are very robust. But do look out to see the blender doors have been fixed/upgraded (Google it) and the wiring looms between the doors and door frames can break the odd wire so your window wont work. Quick re-solder does the trick.
Id also be looking for some decent service history, so you know the diff's have had oil changes.
Hope this helps
I run a 2004 2.7crd (which is a MB engine and gearbox BTW) and after 4 years have no intention of parting with it. The petrol guys really rate the reliability of their engines, so no worries there Id say. Did you know the Euro spec cars were actually built in Austria ? I think it was at a MB owned plant, but that needs confirming.
Apart from a few age related niggles Id say they are very robust. But do look out to see the blender doors have been fixed/upgraded (Google it) and the wiring looms between the doors and door frames can break the odd wire so your window wont work. Quick re-solder does the trick.
Id also be looking for some decent service history, so you know the diff's have had oil changes.
Hope this helps
I'm interested in this too. I want something reliable, big and not mega money. I started looking at similar vehicles as the OP but then this caught my eye http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...
It seems like a whole heap of car for the money....are they potential money pits?
It seems like a whole heap of car for the money....are they potential money pits?
2004 current WJ Grand Cherokee is rust free. 2000 WJ was also rust free.
If you take them properly off road the Jeep will leave the Merc a long way behind, they are not as high as some (like Discoverys) standard but are by no means dragging on the ground. My 2000 was standard and only got stuck offroad where I did something stupid like not flooring it when it started to struggle or not backing up far enough and stopping right in the bottom of a hole instead of going right through and starting again.
The 4.0 in the Jeep is meant to be the most reliable, my 2000 was a 4.0 and the engine and gearbox were spot on at 118k miles. Other aspects of it were not, however some of that was down to me - like not checking what the puddle of oil was under the transfer case...
On road I've always had big chunky tyres, the 4.0 did a few longish trips and was ok. The 4.7 came home from London to Edinburgh, it has a 4 inch lift and big offroad tyres, cruise control on to 70 and the trip was fine.
Personal choice would be a 4.7 HO (if you're wanting the quicker one) with LPG. There was a 4.7 HO Overland on eBay today for £1850 with low mileage that I saw posted on one of the Jeep facebook pages this morning that looked worth a look, not LPG though.
If you take them properly off road the Jeep will leave the Merc a long way behind, they are not as high as some (like Discoverys) standard but are by no means dragging on the ground. My 2000 was standard and only got stuck offroad where I did something stupid like not flooring it when it started to struggle or not backing up far enough and stopping right in the bottom of a hole instead of going right through and starting again.
The 4.0 in the Jeep is meant to be the most reliable, my 2000 was a 4.0 and the engine and gearbox were spot on at 118k miles. Other aspects of it were not, however some of that was down to me - like not checking what the puddle of oil was under the transfer case...
On road I've always had big chunky tyres, the 4.0 did a few longish trips and was ok. The 4.7 came home from London to Edinburgh, it has a 4 inch lift and big offroad tyres, cruise control on to 70 and the trip was fine.
Personal choice would be a 4.7 HO (if you're wanting the quicker one) with LPG. There was a 4.7 HO Overland on eBay today for £1850 with low mileage that I saw posted on one of the Jeep facebook pages this morning that looked worth a look, not LPG though.
Thanks all - hugely helpful stuff, and swaying me a little further in the direction of the WJ Jeep. The HO engine did appeal, but I'm not sure I know how/where to spot it?
To clarify, this will be a 99.9% road car, so it will be wearing road tyres and its offroad ability will have little bearing on my decision.
There doesn't seem to be much positive about the ML, which is a bit of a shame, but something that I had feared.
Do you have a link to the Jeep page? I'm not bothered about fuel economy in the slightest (I average about 5kpa), so a non-LPG car might appeal.
To clarify, this will be a 99.9% road car, so it will be wearing road tyres and its offroad ability will have little bearing on my decision.
There doesn't seem to be much positive about the ML, which is a bit of a shame, but something that I had feared.
Do you have a link to the Jeep page? I'm not bothered about fuel economy in the slightest (I average about 5kpa), so a non-LPG car might appeal.
pcn1 said:
Did you know the Euro spec cars were actually built in Austria ? I think it was at a MB owned plant, but that needs confirming.
Some European cars were manufactured at Magna Steyr in Austria between 1999 and 2002.Magna Steyr aren't owned by MB but are a contract manufacturer that provide additional production facilities for manufacturers that enables them to increase production (or add another model) without having to build a new factory or reduce production of existing models.
In the case of the original ML, Magna Steyr provided additional production capacity when the model was in high demand.
After the ML the factory produced the original X3 for BMW. Today they make the Mini Countryman/Paceman.
pcn was refering to the Grand there, the euro grands (WG as opposed to US ones being WJs) were all built in Graz in the Steyr factory and are much better rust proofed than the US ones which didn't get a decent underseal and rot away on salted roads.
HO engines are always in Overland spec, the slightly lesser spec non HO is in limiteds and none Overland special editions. Personally think the standard v8 produces enough shove for the standard brakes. Aim to get a post 2002 model WG as they have a few worth while changes and 3, 3 point belts in the rear.
HO engines are always in Overland spec, the slightly lesser spec non HO is in limiteds and none Overland special editions. Personally think the standard v8 produces enough shove for the standard brakes. Aim to get a post 2002 model WG as they have a few worth while changes and 3, 3 point belts in the rear.
Mi had one of the last WJ Overlands with the 4.7l engine. It was brilliant. I had 3 years of fault free motoring, very capable off road and was a super comfy drive.
My Father has a similar age ML and while he's been very happy with it, it's recently started to throw up some very expensive problems that would be a fraction of the price in the Jeep.
My Father has a similar age ML and while he's been very happy with it, it's recently started to throw up some very expensive problems that would be a fraction of the price in the Jeep.
I assume I'm stating the obvious but are you aware of the likely running costs of such a vehicle in London traffic if your budget is only £3k? I have a CLK 430 with the same engine as the ML but in a much lighter 2wd car and it does mid to high 20s mpg on a decent run but terrible mpg (<20) on short urban runs. Having also had a 2007 Jeep Commander 5.7 Hemi which never topped 18mpg even on long motorway trips I would be surprised if either of your choices even got close to 20mpg in London, if you do any miles at all they'll use well over their own value in fuel every year.
Personally I prefer the Jeep of the two. It's certainly the better off-roader (not that this matters to you) and it just subjectively appeals more. With your criteria I would stretch the budget a bit more and get a Landcruiser Amazon 4.7 V8 or 80 series 4.5 I6 myself.
Personally I prefer the Jeep of the two. It's certainly the better off-roader (not that this matters to you) and it just subjectively appeals more. With your criteria I would stretch the budget a bit more and get a Landcruiser Amazon 4.7 V8 or 80 series 4.5 I6 myself.
TurboHatchback said:
I assume I'm stating the obvious but are you aware of the likely running costs of such a vehicle in London traffic if your budget is only £3k? I have a CLK 430 with the same engine as the ML but in a much lighter 2wd car and it does mid to high 20s mpg on a decent run but terrible mpg (<20) on short urban runs. Having also had a 2007 Jeep Commander 5.7 Hemi which never topped 18mpg even on long motorway trips I would be surprised if either of your choices even got close to 20mpg in London, if you do any miles at all they'll use well over their own value in fuel every year.
Personally I prefer the Jeep of the two. It's certainly the better off-roader (not that this matters to you) and it just subjectively appeals more. With your criteria I would stretch the budget a bit more and get a Landcruiser Amazon 4.7 V8 or 80 series 4.5 I6 myself.
I think you should probably check my profile/garage...Personally I prefer the Jeep of the two. It's certainly the better off-roader (not that this matters to you) and it just subjectively appeals more. With your criteria I would stretch the budget a bit more and get a Landcruiser Amazon 4.7 V8 or 80 series 4.5 I6 myself.
I don't do many miles a year (mainly weekends), so I'm not bothered about fuel cost. The budget isn't moving (it's a small pot of cash I put aside to play with cars), so it's probably down to these two if I want any kind of decent performance from a 4x4.
Another vote for the Jeep here.
MrsR1 has a 2000 4.7v8 Limited (not HO) and its great drive, plenty of grunt and no rust.
It likes a drink tho' 19 round town and 23/4 on the motorway at 70. Can be driven quickly if you plan ahead and is not slow off the lights to say it weighs god knows what.
I've done a bit of maintenance on it and its very well built, uncomplicated and easy to work on.
110kmiles on ours now - doesn't feel it.
MrsR1 has a 2000 4.7v8 Limited (not HO) and its great drive, plenty of grunt and no rust.
It likes a drink tho' 19 round town and 23/4 on the motorway at 70. Can be driven quickly if you plan ahead and is not slow off the lights to say it weighs god knows what.
I've done a bit of maintenance on it and its very well built, uncomplicated and easy to work on.
110kmiles on ours now - doesn't feel it.
Gassing Station | Off Road | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff