JLR when did the reliability rot set in, Will it stop?
Discussion
Idly wondering when Land rover products started becoming so dodgy, was looking with interest at the new disco sport hoping that the rot had stopped, but looking at various forums, its clearly still the case.
Is it me, or does anyone else think that a vehicle that cost as much as a JLR product should be pretty much perfect?
After the Japanese have been doing it for years at much lower cost.
Damned annoying, on paper (cost aside) the products look fantastic, decent space,awesome off road ability, useful tech, sublime comfort, all for naught if the bloody thing only works when it feels like it.
Is it me, or does anyone else think that a vehicle that cost as much as a JLR product should be pretty much perfect?
After the Japanese have been doing it for years at much lower cost.
Damned annoying, on paper (cost aside) the products look fantastic, decent space,awesome off road ability, useful tech, sublime comfort, all for naught if the bloody thing only works when it feels like it.
brough74 said:
Normally when you look for info online you only find the bad points. I bought a brand new Discovery Sport in november and so far its faultless. It has done everything ive needed of it so far, and mine does venture off road and pulls a trailer ever so often.
Bit of a necro-post, but...Since I moved to the Middle East, I tend to judge a car's quality by what I see or don't see dumped by the roadside*. Given that Arabs tend to be both moneyed and hugely impatient, they generally neither have the interest nor are they financially motivated to fix their cars; hence when a car stops working, it just gets left.
Without exception, there are generally two brands of car that are most commonly ditched thus:
1) Late-noughties Land Rovers
2) Early-mid-noughties Mercs.
I work in one of the world's armpits, (Mussafah free zone) which happens to be home to thousands of back-street brand-specific specialists. By now, you won't be surprised to learn that there are a significantly higher proportion of Land Rover and Merc specialists than there are any other manufacturer, with BMW coming a close third.
Conversely, there are all manner of old, impossibly shagged looking Landcruisers still rumbling along, clocking up biblical mileages, seemingly impervious to the violent abuse they're nearly always subjected to.
So forum or not, I can only say what I see. And additionally, my Dad's last few L322 Rangies have not been paragons of reliability either.
*useless fact: the propensity in the UAE for building on land far back from the roadside, creates effectively a no-man's land between the road and the plot, which is why cars dumped at the road side invariably remain there for ever: no-one owns the land!
Pennyroyal Tea said:
Without exception, there are generally two brands of car that are most commonly ditched thus:
1) Late-noughties Land Rovers
2) Early-mid-noughties Mercs.
I work in one of the world's armpits, (Mussafah free zone) which happens to be home to thousands of back-street brand-specific specialists. By now, you won't be surprised to learn that there are a significantly higher proportion of Land Rover and Merc specialists than there are any other manufacturer, with BMW coming a close third.
Doesn't that just say that LR and Merc sold very well in those eras?1) Late-noughties Land Rovers
2) Early-mid-noughties Mercs.
I work in one of the world's armpits, (Mussafah free zone) which happens to be home to thousands of back-street brand-specific specialists. By now, you won't be surprised to learn that there are a significantly higher proportion of Land Rover and Merc specialists than there are any other manufacturer, with BMW coming a close third.
See separate post in the Land Rover area...
I've got a 1996 TDi 110" Defender - presently on 260500 miles, admittedly pre-JLR but proof that they can and will last if maintained.
No defence however of the complacency LR showed in not developing the core product when it had the funds nor of the appalling build quality and non-existent corrosion inhibition ex-works. It seems that once they left the factory vehicles in service weren't inspected to identify opportunities for improvement.
I've got a 1996 TDi 110" Defender - presently on 260500 miles, admittedly pre-JLR but proof that they can and will last if maintained.
No defence however of the complacency LR showed in not developing the core product when it had the funds nor of the appalling build quality and non-existent corrosion inhibition ex-works. It seems that once they left the factory vehicles in service weren't inspected to identify opportunities for improvement.
brough74 said:
Normally when you look for info online you only find the bad points. I bought a brand new Discovery Sport in november and so far its faultless. It has done everything ive needed of it so far, and mine does venture off road and pulls a trailer ever so often.
They must build a few that work.Two of my friends that have tried LR products (RR and Defender) got hit with massive repair bills, and although both liked their vehicles up to that point, have both sworn never to buy a LR product again.
brough74 said:
Normally when you look for info online you only find the bad points. I bought a brand new Discovery Sport in november and so far its faultless. It has done everything ive needed of it so far, and mine does venture off road and pulls a trailer ever so often.
2 months is a really long time to illustrate how reliable a car is.TLandCruiser said:
brough74 said:
Normally when you look for info online you only find the bad points. I bought a brand new Discovery Sport in november and so far its faultless. It has done everything ive needed of it so far, and mine does venture off road and pulls a trailer ever so often.
2 months is a really long time to illustrate how reliable a car is.The only bit I had to change other than service items was the alternator due to it getting a little noisy, the V8 was as smooth and powerful as the day I collected it and showed no signs of 100,000 miles, didn't use or leak any fluids, probably the best car I have ever owned.
techguyone said:
Idly wondering when Land rover products started becoming so dodgy, was looking with interest at the new disco sport hoping that the rot had stopped, but looking at various forums, its clearly still the case.
People only go on forums to complain and moan as a rule. Well vehicle specific ones.... And LR's are hugely popular with a mass following. So lots of online talk.If you research any Jap truck, you'll see forums for those vehicles are equally littered with people having problems.
techguyone said:
Is it me, or does anyone else think that a vehicle that cost as much as a JLR product should be pretty much perfect?
What a completely stupid thing to say.Ferrari's have plenty of issues and cost a lot more. Everything is built to a price point and nothing is infallible. I suspect what is needed here, is you need to take a real long look at reality and align your thoughts with the subject.
techguyone said:
After the Japanese have been doing it for years at much lower cost.
Nope not even remotely close. They have issues like anything else. And price can be equal, more or less depending on specifics.techguyone said:
300 I see you're busy making friends and influencing people... again.
My own advice to you is simple, the second word is 'Off' you can most likely figure out the first.
You're not really bringing anything of value to the thread.
Highlighting that you are somewhat delusion and unrealistic should help you loads.... My own advice to you is simple, the second word is 'Off' you can most likely figure out the first.
You're not really bringing anything of value to the thread.
Frankly if you go into any purchase with this point of view:
techguyone said:
It's just a bit crap that for the price these things cost, you'd expect them to work forever, flawlessly.
Then the only person likely to be disappointed is you. I don't mean this in an offensive way and please take the other as good natured banter.As for anything else to contribute. Afraid I don't own a truly modern Land Rover product. I do however own 3 Land Rover vehicles at present, and have owned several others in the past.
My brother also has a Land Rover
My Mum has a Land Rover
Two of my cousins have Land Rovers, one has two Landy's in fact
My Godfather has two Land Rovers
My best mate has a Land Rover
My Uncle has eight Land Rovers
And of close and family friends they can total in the region of maybe another 20 Land Rover vehicles.
But please don't let my ultra limited exposure to Land Rover products have any bearing on this.
TLandCruiser said:
brough74 said:
Normally when you look for info online you only find the bad points. I bought a brand new Discovery Sport in november and so far its faultless. It has done everything ive needed of it so far, and mine does venture off road and pulls a trailer ever so often.
2 months is a really long time to illustrate how reliable a car is.Yes, brand new car doesn't breakdown in 2016. shock.
Yet JD Power consistently marks them down very low, clearly not everyone is happy.
http://dougdemuro.kinja.com/here-s-why-land-rover-...
Look I don't have any axe to grind. I *want* to love JLR, the concept and practicality/desirability is awesome, but the execution... and the cost, for such disappointing results make it hard to swallow.
I'm not looking for infallibility but I don't expect the wheels to fall off - especially at the price point, and frankly saying that Ferraris cost more and go wrong too is meaningless, who willingly goes and spends what is, let's face it, a small fortune on something that's going to .. putting it kindly.. that problematic.
http://dougdemuro.kinja.com/here-s-why-land-rover-...
Look I don't have any axe to grind. I *want* to love JLR, the concept and practicality/desirability is awesome, but the execution... and the cost, for such disappointing results make it hard to swallow.
I'm not looking for infallibility but I don't expect the wheels to fall off - especially at the price point, and frankly saying that Ferraris cost more and go wrong too is meaningless, who willingly goes and spends what is, let's face it, a small fortune on something that's going to .. putting it kindly.. that problematic.
Edited by techguyone on Thursday 7th April 16:57
I'm not sure there is much I can say. Although I actually don't rate any of these satisfaction surveys tbh. Partly because of the questions they ask are pretty meaningless and often concentrate on the dealer, rather than the car. You can have a great car, but a lousy local dealer.
None of these surveys take into account the mechanics of a car. For example, a regular FWD car has:
1 x gearbox
1 x diff
2 drive shafts
An off road capable 4x4 has:
2 x gearbox (if it has low range)
3 x diffs
6 x drive shafts
If you assumed the same failure ratio of components, e.g. 1:10, then a Land Rover would suffer more failures for the same durability rate, just by the shear number of components. This means any scale rating a vehicles reliability and not taking into context their mechanics (or their intended use) is completed flawed.
And lastly in every survey I've ever looked at, the distance from first to last is normally very small. But forcing it into an ordered list makes everyone thing first to last is a massive void.
The link you gave me even says this:
A poor results would be something scoring less than 50%, but no such thing exists.
Obviously I cannot guarantee that you could buy one and have no issues. But looking at the JD results, you'd only stand a 7% chance of it being worse than spending you money on the claimed best.
None of these surveys take into account the mechanics of a car. For example, a regular FWD car has:
1 x gearbox
1 x diff
2 drive shafts
An off road capable 4x4 has:
2 x gearbox (if it has low range)
3 x diffs
6 x drive shafts
If you assumed the same failure ratio of components, e.g. 1:10, then a Land Rover would suffer more failures for the same durability rate, just by the shear number of components. This means any scale rating a vehicles reliability and not taking into context their mechanics (or their intended use) is completed flawed.
And lastly in every survey I've ever looked at, the distance from first to last is normally very small. But forcing it into an ordered list makes everyone thing first to last is a massive void.
The link you gave me even says this:
JD said:
nearly all premium brands are clustered between 840 and 870 points out of a possible 1,000. The premium brand average was 855, and the worst non-Land Rover brands – Volvo, Acura, Mercedes-Benz, BMW, and Porsche – are all between 840 and 848.
And then, at the very bottom, you have Land Rover, with just 805 points.
So using these numbers, the best really scored 84-87% where Land Rover scored 80.5%. Personally I really think that is meaningless. If the worst car on the list is still scoring over 80% and only 7% behind the best. Then last place is still a friggin good place to be.And then, at the very bottom, you have Land Rover, with just 805 points.
A poor results would be something scoring less than 50%, but no such thing exists.
Obviously I cannot guarantee that you could buy one and have no issues. But looking at the JD results, you'd only stand a 7% chance of it being worse than spending you money on the claimed best.
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