Let's Off-Road!
Discussion
Well yes, a bit of a pipe dream but I've a few questions about off-road, green lanes etc.
I recently went on the free Land Rover Experience you get with your new car. Took a Discovery Sport like mine out under tuition and I have to say it was great fun.
We're planning to do another one, or similar sometime in a Defender. As a passenger I've been off roaming and my wife lived driving in the mud.
So to the pipe dream. How expensive a hobby would this be?
An old Defender 90, Or Disco with a bit of off road preparation. I know the P38 has reliability issues but would one of these be OK?
As for going off road, I'm thinking light stuff rather than sand ladders winches and the like.
What's the law in England like? I guess you have to be very aware of where you are driving, minimise, damage to tracks and the general environment.
Are there places you can go and pay to drive round for fun?
Neither of us are club type people, but I guess this isn't something one does solo.
As I say, just a pipe dream/idle musing, but I'm guessing it's a minimum of 10k for a basic off road knitted Landy.
I know other 4x4s are out there but it would really have to be a Land Rover rather than a Shogun or whatever.
I recently went on the free Land Rover Experience you get with your new car. Took a Discovery Sport like mine out under tuition and I have to say it was great fun.
We're planning to do another one, or similar sometime in a Defender. As a passenger I've been off roaming and my wife lived driving in the mud.
So to the pipe dream. How expensive a hobby would this be?
An old Defender 90, Or Disco with a bit of off road preparation. I know the P38 has reliability issues but would one of these be OK?
As for going off road, I'm thinking light stuff rather than sand ladders winches and the like.
What's the law in England like? I guess you have to be very aware of where you are driving, minimise, damage to tracks and the general environment.
Are there places you can go and pay to drive round for fun?
Neither of us are club type people, but I guess this isn't something one does solo.
As I say, just a pipe dream/idle musing, but I'm guessing it's a minimum of 10k for a basic off road knitted Landy.
I know other 4x4s are out there but it would really have to be a Land Rover rather than a Shogun or whatever.
Doesn't have to be that expensive at all, I used to passenger for a guy doing trials with the local club, there was a guy with a bog standard mk1 disco doing moat of the stuff any of the other guys were doing. You can pick them up for about £1500 I think... Jimnys are quite popular too, and vitaras.
Try your local club, even if you don't go out with them they'll have all the info you need.
Try your local club, even if you don't go out with them they'll have all the info you need.
The car choice depends on how seriously you are going to get into off roading in my opinion.
And about the places to drive around the UK there are green lanes, special roads for off roader use.
http://www.bywaymap.com
This might help you find any lanes near you.
And about the places to drive around the UK there are green lanes, special roads for off roader use.
http://www.bywaymap.com
This might help you find any lanes near you.
Did this a few years back and bought a 6k 300TDI Disco and then kitted it out for amateur playing with a set of steels with some chunky BF Goodrich all-terrain tyres, a snorkel and sump and diff guards. Most of the off-roading events were organised by the local Land Rover club who arranged "play days" in a local disused quarry where you could be as adventurous as you dared and green laning trips which were a bit more sedate.
Green lanes were all marked out on maps but you have to make sure the information is up-to-date, especially if you're driving close to military land such as on the Salisbury Plains. We didn't ever encounter any trouble or angry ramblers and made sure we were considerate and not tearing up the land. The closest we came to an altercation was turning up at the local Sainsbury car wash with 6 Land Rovers covered from top to bottom in mud and trying to buy some tokens.
A lot of fun, but I came away deciding I preferred driving quickly and not being covered in mud to being able to drive anywhere.
Chris
Green lanes were all marked out on maps but you have to make sure the information is up-to-date, especially if you're driving close to military land such as on the Salisbury Plains. We didn't ever encounter any trouble or angry ramblers and made sure we were considerate and not tearing up the land. The closest we came to an altercation was turning up at the local Sainsbury car wash with 6 Land Rovers covered from top to bottom in mud and trying to buy some tokens.
A lot of fun, but I came away deciding I preferred driving quickly and not being covered in mud to being able to drive anywhere.
Chris
Almost any 4x4 will cope with 90% of green lanes. You don't need to fit a lift kit, winch or any of the other paraphernalia you see on some 4x4s.
The remaining 10% of lanes can be quite challenging, with hazards like steep descents, axle twisters, deep water, ruts or rocks to challenge pretty much any driver and 4x4. Once you have a 4x4 you're unlikely to do much more damage than scratches or dents on the sills. The old rule of As slow as possible, as fast as necessary is key.
To find valid routes requires a lot of planning. To do it properly you should check with local authority rights of way bodies to ensure lanes are open and not subject to TROs (traffic regulation orders).
Some routes are closed during some parts of the year to protect the surface, protect wildlife or reduce contention in popular or 'politically sensitive' routes. There is one route in the lakes requires a permit and is restricted to :certain sized vehicles.
There is an excellent organization called GLASS that runs a site called Trailwise. This is an excellent resource for green lanes route planning.
You should ideally never go laning on your own but as long as you're sensible and know your cars limits and your own limits you should be ok. I would strongly recommend going out with an experienced laner to learn the ropes.
For laning I would recommend keeping the following in the vehicle:
A good selection of tools
A strong tow rope (webbing strops are usyally best).
Strong shackles (5ton at least).
Warm clothing and stout footwear in case you need to leave the vehicle to seek assistance.
CB radio is recommended, especially if traveling with others. They're useful not only for banter but also to call for assistance or giving or receiving warnings about hazards on the route (walkers, horses, cyclists etc).
Always carry at least some food and water. In winter a couple of sleeping bags in case you get stranded somewhere.
A tarpaulin so if you need to climb under the vehicle you don't need to lie in the mud.
Green lanes are not play areas and it's important not to cause damage. If you want to play then use a pay and play site. These are usually old quarries where you can pay a fee to drive a route which has challenges of various types. Be warned though, pay and play sites can be very hard on your vehicle.
My first laning vehicle was an old tatty Range Rover Vogue 3.9 edu which was bought blind for £600. I ran that 3 years and sold it on for what I paid.
The only work it needed was an exhaust and head gasket.
Let me know if you want more information.
The remaining 10% of lanes can be quite challenging, with hazards like steep descents, axle twisters, deep water, ruts or rocks to challenge pretty much any driver and 4x4. Once you have a 4x4 you're unlikely to do much more damage than scratches or dents on the sills. The old rule of As slow as possible, as fast as necessary is key.
To find valid routes requires a lot of planning. To do it properly you should check with local authority rights of way bodies to ensure lanes are open and not subject to TROs (traffic regulation orders).
Some routes are closed during some parts of the year to protect the surface, protect wildlife or reduce contention in popular or 'politically sensitive' routes. There is one route in the lakes requires a permit and is restricted to :certain sized vehicles.
There is an excellent organization called GLASS that runs a site called Trailwise. This is an excellent resource for green lanes route planning.
You should ideally never go laning on your own but as long as you're sensible and know your cars limits and your own limits you should be ok. I would strongly recommend going out with an experienced laner to learn the ropes.
For laning I would recommend keeping the following in the vehicle:
A good selection of tools
A strong tow rope (webbing strops are usyally best).
Strong shackles (5ton at least).
Warm clothing and stout footwear in case you need to leave the vehicle to seek assistance.
CB radio is recommended, especially if traveling with others. They're useful not only for banter but also to call for assistance or giving or receiving warnings about hazards on the route (walkers, horses, cyclists etc).
Always carry at least some food and water. In winter a couple of sleeping bags in case you get stranded somewhere.
A tarpaulin so if you need to climb under the vehicle you don't need to lie in the mud.
Green lanes are not play areas and it's important not to cause damage. If you want to play then use a pay and play site. These are usually old quarries where you can pay a fee to drive a route which has challenges of various types. Be warned though, pay and play sites can be very hard on your vehicle.
My first laning vehicle was an old tatty Range Rover Vogue 3.9 edu which was bought blind for £600. I ran that 3 years and sold it on for what I paid.
The only work it needed was an exhaust and head gasket.
Let me know if you want more information.
wildcat45 said:
Thanks so much. I think I'll get us booked in to an off road centre again and have a go with their vehicles and maybe find out what's local to me.
Having seen what my DS can do I'd love to use that but it is rather new and it cost us rather a lot.
whereabouts are you based?Having seen what my DS can do I'd love to use that but it is rather new and it cost us rather a lot.
Just to add more now I'm not replying using a phone!
The law is very grey in a lot of areas regarding green lanes.
Every council highways department has a 'definitive map'. This is a map of all the highways and what access is permitted. However.... not every road or track is listed.
In general however unless a TRO is on a particular route the following are true:
Byway Open to All Traffic (BOAT) is usable by all vehicles
Bridleways are open to cyclists, walkers and horse but not motorised traffic
Footpaths are the sole preserve of walkers
Roads used as Public Path are not open to motorised vehicles but are open to all other traffic (though some dispute about cylists exists)
Restricted Byway are not open to motorised traffic but are open to all other traffic.
In Scotland the rules are different. There is no access to 4x4s on any public route not marked as a road.
Do not be tempted to drive any route you're not permitted to be on. Firstly it gives the antis ammunition to get the access removed elsewhere. Secondly you may get prosecuted and in some circumstances your vehicle impounded.
Certain areas of the country are notoriously anti 4x4 - the worst being the Yorkshire Dales. North York Moors and Wales tend to be the most accomodating (and there are some excellent routes in Wales). The Lakes are pretty good too and the Peaks is not much better than the Yorkshire Dales these days (they used to be good but it seems the anti 4x4 lobby have gained power there and they've become pretty bad). If you see someone driving 'off piste' report them and if possible take a photo of them doing it. The more cowboys are discouraged the more tracks will remain open in the future.
Also bear in mind that a green lane is a public highway. You must have an MOT, tax and insurance and your vehicle must be roadworthy. Police forces in certain areas do perform random stops to check roadworthiness and have year round campaigns to check on route usage.
Now onto the enjoyable bit... routes.
Some excellent routes are:
Strata Florida in mid Wales. This is an excellent and generally fairly easy route that goes for miles through unspoilt countryside. It crosses a river a dozen or so times and this can be dangerous (there is a memorial to a girl who drowned when their vehicle toppled into the river). Do not do this track in bad weather as the river may be too fast to traverse.
Happy Valley in North Wales. This is an excellent trail that can be challenging, particularly the fairly small and innocuous looking step about half way along. Its a lot harder than it looks! The route is generally fairly easy but very narrow in places. Welly boot are advised as one of the gates is often in a big puddle of water. Scenery on this route is beautiful.
The Wayfarer in North Wales. This is a pretty long gentle route aside from the section where its been reinforced with railway sleepers. On occasion deliberate vandalism of this trail occurs to prevent 4x4 usage. This can take the form of a deep trench dug across the route or nails embedded in pieces of wood in the bottom of the flooded section. Scenery is amongst the best of any route with wide vistas and a really remote feeling.
Gatesgarth Pass in the Lake District. This is the holy grail of routes in my view. It requires an access permit to use it but its well worth the trouble to get. There is a limit on wheelbase for this trail of 100" due to the nature of the trail but they will relax this if you can make a good case (I took an ex-military FC101 over and that has a wheelbase of 101"). Its a long remote trail that climbs via a steep set of hairpin bends that will have you struggling for grip. The descent is equally challenging and even steeper in places. This is not a suitable trail for a beginner.
The Coachmans in the Lake District. This trail is an easy run out with only one section that gets very boggy. Its driveable in extreme cold weather as long as there isn't too much snow (the cold freezes the water in the bog). Snow can be a problem with this route. Again the views are spectacular and its an easy route for beginners (and it doesn't have many gates!).
Grizedale Forest in the Lake District (aka The Fox). This starts opposite the Grizedale forest visitor centre and is subject to an agreement to use it one way. Its an interesting and moderately challenging route that is very rocky on the way up.
Tarn Hows in the Lake District. A lovely and gentle route that skirts the edge of Tarn Hows. Makes a nice link between Grizedale and several other green lanes to the west.
There are a number of routes in the Peaks that are good but they are difficult to find and sadly most of the better ones are now TRO'd (Stanage Edge, Doctors Gate etc). Probably the best of the ones still available is Monsal Head. This is a steep and very challenging rocky climb from the river up onto the hills opposite the Monsal Head hotel. Once on the top the route flattens and follows the ridge where the views down onto the A6 are quite breathtaking. There have been incidents of anti 4x4 vandalism on this route (telephone poles dragged across the trail) but they are usually soon removed. That brings an interesting point. You are legally permitted to remove any obstruction over a legal route. This means fallen trees, barbed wire or telephone poles. If you do this be sure to notify the council afterwards and take photos. As always, do as little collateral damage as possible.
Another way to enjoy your 4x4 is to use a the wet roads site to find fords over rivers. Some of these can be challenging and great fun. Probably the best known is Violets Lane (Hertfordshire) where the road is the river bed for about a mile. Here's a youtube link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSHW5pdhne4
With fording ensure your vehicle is properly prepared. High air intake (water in the inlet manifold will ruin your day), extended breather tubes for axles and transmission and if petrol fully protected ignition system (this is one instance diesels are preferable to petrols). As a rule of thumb if you have not prepared for wading anything above axle height will put you at risk.
Depending where you are or want to go I may be able to give you more help getting started (I no longer have a 4x4 but can certainly give you pointers).
Good Pay and Play sites:
Bala Off Road Centre (near Bala in Wales)
Tixover near Peterborough (avoid the deep water as it will clog your radiator with silt)
Cowm Quarry in Lancashire (avoid the deep water as its highly abrasive due to the silt). (some footage of my old RRC at Cowm here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LVhQ98C984 )
France also has some excellent access. Les Ciques Pilliers north west of Paris looks amazing and incorporates a drive into an underground mine.The Alps has vast numbers of tracks suitable to green laning as does the Auvergne and the Pyrenees.
The law is very grey in a lot of areas regarding green lanes.
Every council highways department has a 'definitive map'. This is a map of all the highways and what access is permitted. However.... not every road or track is listed.
In general however unless a TRO is on a particular route the following are true:
Byway Open to All Traffic (BOAT) is usable by all vehicles
Bridleways are open to cyclists, walkers and horse but not motorised traffic
Footpaths are the sole preserve of walkers
Roads used as Public Path are not open to motorised vehicles but are open to all other traffic (though some dispute about cylists exists)
Restricted Byway are not open to motorised traffic but are open to all other traffic.
In Scotland the rules are different. There is no access to 4x4s on any public route not marked as a road.
Do not be tempted to drive any route you're not permitted to be on. Firstly it gives the antis ammunition to get the access removed elsewhere. Secondly you may get prosecuted and in some circumstances your vehicle impounded.
Certain areas of the country are notoriously anti 4x4 - the worst being the Yorkshire Dales. North York Moors and Wales tend to be the most accomodating (and there are some excellent routes in Wales). The Lakes are pretty good too and the Peaks is not much better than the Yorkshire Dales these days (they used to be good but it seems the anti 4x4 lobby have gained power there and they've become pretty bad). If you see someone driving 'off piste' report them and if possible take a photo of them doing it. The more cowboys are discouraged the more tracks will remain open in the future.
Also bear in mind that a green lane is a public highway. You must have an MOT, tax and insurance and your vehicle must be roadworthy. Police forces in certain areas do perform random stops to check roadworthiness and have year round campaigns to check on route usage.
Now onto the enjoyable bit... routes.
Some excellent routes are:
Strata Florida in mid Wales. This is an excellent and generally fairly easy route that goes for miles through unspoilt countryside. It crosses a river a dozen or so times and this can be dangerous (there is a memorial to a girl who drowned when their vehicle toppled into the river). Do not do this track in bad weather as the river may be too fast to traverse.
Happy Valley in North Wales. This is an excellent trail that can be challenging, particularly the fairly small and innocuous looking step about half way along. Its a lot harder than it looks! The route is generally fairly easy but very narrow in places. Welly boot are advised as one of the gates is often in a big puddle of water. Scenery on this route is beautiful.
The Wayfarer in North Wales. This is a pretty long gentle route aside from the section where its been reinforced with railway sleepers. On occasion deliberate vandalism of this trail occurs to prevent 4x4 usage. This can take the form of a deep trench dug across the route or nails embedded in pieces of wood in the bottom of the flooded section. Scenery is amongst the best of any route with wide vistas and a really remote feeling.
Gatesgarth Pass in the Lake District. This is the holy grail of routes in my view. It requires an access permit to use it but its well worth the trouble to get. There is a limit on wheelbase for this trail of 100" due to the nature of the trail but they will relax this if you can make a good case (I took an ex-military FC101 over and that has a wheelbase of 101"). Its a long remote trail that climbs via a steep set of hairpin bends that will have you struggling for grip. The descent is equally challenging and even steeper in places. This is not a suitable trail for a beginner.
The Coachmans in the Lake District. This trail is an easy run out with only one section that gets very boggy. Its driveable in extreme cold weather as long as there isn't too much snow (the cold freezes the water in the bog). Snow can be a problem with this route. Again the views are spectacular and its an easy route for beginners (and it doesn't have many gates!).
Grizedale Forest in the Lake District (aka The Fox). This starts opposite the Grizedale forest visitor centre and is subject to an agreement to use it one way. Its an interesting and moderately challenging route that is very rocky on the way up.
Tarn Hows in the Lake District. A lovely and gentle route that skirts the edge of Tarn Hows. Makes a nice link between Grizedale and several other green lanes to the west.
There are a number of routes in the Peaks that are good but they are difficult to find and sadly most of the better ones are now TRO'd (Stanage Edge, Doctors Gate etc). Probably the best of the ones still available is Monsal Head. This is a steep and very challenging rocky climb from the river up onto the hills opposite the Monsal Head hotel. Once on the top the route flattens and follows the ridge where the views down onto the A6 are quite breathtaking. There have been incidents of anti 4x4 vandalism on this route (telephone poles dragged across the trail) but they are usually soon removed. That brings an interesting point. You are legally permitted to remove any obstruction over a legal route. This means fallen trees, barbed wire or telephone poles. If you do this be sure to notify the council afterwards and take photos. As always, do as little collateral damage as possible.
Another way to enjoy your 4x4 is to use a the wet roads site to find fords over rivers. Some of these can be challenging and great fun. Probably the best known is Violets Lane (Hertfordshire) where the road is the river bed for about a mile. Here's a youtube link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSHW5pdhne4
With fording ensure your vehicle is properly prepared. High air intake (water in the inlet manifold will ruin your day), extended breather tubes for axles and transmission and if petrol fully protected ignition system (this is one instance diesels are preferable to petrols). As a rule of thumb if you have not prepared for wading anything above axle height will put you at risk.
Depending where you are or want to go I may be able to give you more help getting started (I no longer have a 4x4 but can certainly give you pointers).
Good Pay and Play sites:
Bala Off Road Centre (near Bala in Wales)
Tixover near Peterborough (avoid the deep water as it will clog your radiator with silt)
Cowm Quarry in Lancashire (avoid the deep water as its highly abrasive due to the silt). (some footage of my old RRC at Cowm here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LVhQ98C984 )
France also has some excellent access. Les Ciques Pilliers north west of Paris looks amazing and incorporates a drive into an underground mine.The Alps has vast numbers of tracks suitable to green laning as does the Auvergne and the Pyrenees.
I'd say if you really want to have fun, join your local club and go trialling. You will get access to private sites in a well organised event, and will do things you had no idea your vehicle could do. My local club organises trials at about 10 different sites throughout the year, and each trial features different routes to take through the site, so it's always varied and it rarely feels like the same site. They are all within a couple of hours' drive at the worst too, so easily accessed for a day out.
If only I had the spare cash/space on the drive for a 4x4...
If only I had the spare cash/space on the drive for a 4x4...
Regarding the cost, it's as cheap or as expensive as you want it to be. - You can buy a cheap Shogun or something for less than £1k or spend tens of thousands on a project and all the kit to go with it. In my experience though, if you dip your toe in, you'll want to do more and more. I started looking at Freelanders that I might do the occasional green lane in but ended-up buying a last-of-the-line Discovery 2 TD5 as a project that I've spend £thousands on this year alone.
One thing I will say is that we don't all look / act like the "Let's Off Road" sketch. Honest.
One thing I will say is that we don't all look / act like the "Let's Off Road" sketch. Honest.
As a NY Moors resident I don't have an issue with off roading where legal. But some of the idiots in recreational 4x4s can really spoil it for the law abiding majority. We had simply appalling behaviour from groups on an old track near my home which despite being clearly signed as off limits was rutted and wrecked beyond belief - thankfully prosecutions followed. It can also be immensely irritating when we get heavy snow to encounter a whole bloody convoy of one life live its when I am trying to get up the hill back home. But it is amusing to see some Bear Grylls wannabe failing to keep up with my wife's winter tyre shod Focus ...
off roading is some of the best fun i've had in a car. Christmas day a few years back whilst drunk i won a swb shogun on ebay. Picked it up and it turned out to be a gem. A set of 31 size mud grabber tyres later and i was green laning and at pay-to-play sites almost every weekend for a year.
I was lucky and the car never broke. It overheated once as I clogged the radiator with mud, but otherwise it was faultless and incredibly capable - especially with the rear locking diff.
If you want to green lane get an ordnance survey map of your local area. You can drive down byways only, but they are a lot of fun. It's risky to go alone in case you get stuck so I used to join a local club most Sunday mornings.
The best fun by far though was the devils pit in luton. A privately owned, disused quarry. £25 to get in and as much mud plugging as you liked. Always plenty of folk to help if you get stuck and there's some pretty serious courses to get round.
A year into ownership I put the car back on ebay and ended up in profit, even after running costs.
I'll do it again no doubt and will almost certainly be doing it in a mk2 swb shogun again. wildly underrated cars.
I was lucky and the car never broke. It overheated once as I clogged the radiator with mud, but otherwise it was faultless and incredibly capable - especially with the rear locking diff.
If you want to green lane get an ordnance survey map of your local area. You can drive down byways only, but they are a lot of fun. It's risky to go alone in case you get stuck so I used to join a local club most Sunday mornings.
The best fun by far though was the devils pit in luton. A privately owned, disused quarry. £25 to get in and as much mud plugging as you liked. Always plenty of folk to help if you get stuck and there's some pretty serious courses to get round.
A year into ownership I put the car back on ebay and ended up in profit, even after running costs.
I'll do it again no doubt and will almost certainly be doing it in a mk2 swb shogun again. wildly underrated cars.
lostkiwi said:
Just to add more now I'm not replying using a phone!
The law is very grey in a lot of areas regarding green lanes.
Every council highways department has a 'definitive map'. This is a map of all the highways and what access is permitted. However.... not every road or track is listed.
In general however unless a TRO is on a particular route the following are true:
Byway Open to All Traffic (BOAT) is usable by all vehicles
Bridleways are open to cyclists, walkers and horse but not motorised traffic
Footpaths are the sole preserve of walkers
Roads used as Public Path are not open to motorised vehicles but are open to all other traffic (though some dispute about cylists exists)
Restricted Byway are not open to motorised traffic but are open to all other traffic.
In Scotland the rules are different. There is no access to 4x4s on any public route not marked as a road.
Do not be tempted to drive any route you're not permitted to be on. Firstly it gives the antis ammunition to get the access removed elsewhere. Secondly you may get prosecuted and in some circumstances your vehicle impounded.
Certain areas of the country are notoriously anti 4x4 - the worst being the Yorkshire Dales. North York Moors and Wales tend to be the most accomodating (and there are some excellent routes in Wales). The Lakes are pretty good too and the Peaks is not much better than the Yorkshire Dales these days (they used to be good but it seems the anti 4x4 lobby have gained power there and they've become pretty bad). If you see someone driving 'off piste' report them and if possible take a photo of them doing it. The more cowboys are discouraged the more tracks will remain open in the future.
Also bear in mind that a green lane is a public highway. You must have an MOT, tax and insurance and your vehicle must be roadworthy. Police forces in certain areas do perform random stops to check roadworthiness and have year round campaigns to check on route usage.
Now onto the enjoyable bit... routes.
Some excellent routes are:
Strata Florida in mid Wales. This is an excellent and generally fairly easy route that goes for miles through unspoilt countryside. It crosses a river a dozen or so times and this can be dangerous (there is a memorial to a girl who drowned when their vehicle toppled into the river). Do not do this track in bad weather as the river may be too fast to traverse.
Happy Valley in North Wales. This is an excellent trail that can be challenging, particularly the fairly small and innocuous looking step about half way along. Its a lot harder than it looks! The route is generally fairly easy but very narrow in places. Welly boot are advised as one of the gates is often in a big puddle of water. Scenery on this route is beautiful.
The Wayfarer in North Wales. This is a pretty long gentle route aside from the section where its been reinforced with railway sleepers. On occasion deliberate vandalism of this trail occurs to prevent 4x4 usage. This can take the form of a deep trench dug across the route or nails embedded in pieces of wood in the bottom of the flooded section. Scenery is amongst the best of any route with wide vistas and a really remote feeling.
Gatesgarth Pass in the Lake District. This is the holy grail of routes in my view. It requires an access permit to use it but its well worth the trouble to get. There is a limit on wheelbase for this trail of 100" due to the nature of the trail but they will relax this if you can make a good case (I took an ex-military FC101 over and that has a wheelbase of 101"). Its a long remote trail that climbs via a steep set of hairpin bends that will have you struggling for grip. The descent is equally challenging and even steeper in places. This is not a suitable trail for a beginner.
The Coachmans in the Lake District. This trail is an easy run out with only one section that gets very boggy. Its driveable in extreme cold weather as long as there isn't too much snow (the cold freezes the water in the bog). Snow can be a problem with this route. Again the views are spectacular and its an easy route for beginners (and it doesn't have many gates!).
Grizedale Forest in the Lake District (aka The Fox). This starts opposite the Grizedale forest visitor centre and is subject to an agreement to use it one way. Its an interesting and moderately challenging route that is very rocky on the way up.
Tarn Hows in the Lake District. A lovely and gentle route that skirts the edge of Tarn Hows. Makes a nice link between Grizedale and several other green lanes to the west.
There are a number of routes in the Peaks that are good but they are difficult to find and sadly most of the better ones are now TRO'd (Stanage Edge, Doctors Gate etc). Probably the best of the ones still available is Monsal Head. This is a steep and very challenging rocky climb from the river up onto the hills opposite the Monsal Head hotel. Once on the top the route flattens and follows the ridge where the views down onto the A6 are quite breathtaking. There have been incidents of anti 4x4 vandalism on this route (telephone poles dragged across the trail) but they are usually soon removed. That brings an interesting point. You are legally permitted to remove any obstruction over a legal route. This means fallen trees, barbed wire or telephone poles. If you do this be sure to notify the council afterwards and take photos. As always, do as little collateral damage as possible.
Another way to enjoy your 4x4 is to use a the wet roads site to find fords over rivers. Some of these can be challenging and great fun. Probably the best known is Violets Lane (Hertfordshire) where the road is the river bed for about a mile. Here's a youtube link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSHW5pdhne4
With fording ensure your vehicle is properly prepared. High air intake (water in the inlet manifold will ruin your day), extended breather tubes for axles and transmission and if petrol fully protected ignition system (this is one instance diesels are preferable to petrols). As a rule of thumb if you have not prepared for wading anything above axle height will put you at risk.
Depending where you are or want to go I may be able to give you more help getting started (I no longer have a 4x4 but can certainly give you pointers).
Good Pay and Play sites:
Bala Off Road Centre (near Bala in Wales)
Tixover near Peterborough (avoid the deep water as it will clog your radiator with silt)
Cowm Quarry in Lancashire (avoid the deep water as its highly abrasive due to the silt). (some footage of my old RRC at Cowm here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LVhQ98C984 )
France also has some excellent access. Les Ciques Pilliers north west of Paris looks amazing and incorporates a drive into an underground mine.The Alps has vast numbers of tracks suitable to green laning as does the Auvergne and the Pyrenees.
Thanks so much. Thanks to everyone. I got no work done this afternoon after following that YouTube link, and the next, and the next.The law is very grey in a lot of areas regarding green lanes.
Every council highways department has a 'definitive map'. This is a map of all the highways and what access is permitted. However.... not every road or track is listed.
In general however unless a TRO is on a particular route the following are true:
Byway Open to All Traffic (BOAT) is usable by all vehicles
Bridleways are open to cyclists, walkers and horse but not motorised traffic
Footpaths are the sole preserve of walkers
Roads used as Public Path are not open to motorised vehicles but are open to all other traffic (though some dispute about cylists exists)
Restricted Byway are not open to motorised traffic but are open to all other traffic.
In Scotland the rules are different. There is no access to 4x4s on any public route not marked as a road.
Do not be tempted to drive any route you're not permitted to be on. Firstly it gives the antis ammunition to get the access removed elsewhere. Secondly you may get prosecuted and in some circumstances your vehicle impounded.
Certain areas of the country are notoriously anti 4x4 - the worst being the Yorkshire Dales. North York Moors and Wales tend to be the most accomodating (and there are some excellent routes in Wales). The Lakes are pretty good too and the Peaks is not much better than the Yorkshire Dales these days (they used to be good but it seems the anti 4x4 lobby have gained power there and they've become pretty bad). If you see someone driving 'off piste' report them and if possible take a photo of them doing it. The more cowboys are discouraged the more tracks will remain open in the future.
Also bear in mind that a green lane is a public highway. You must have an MOT, tax and insurance and your vehicle must be roadworthy. Police forces in certain areas do perform random stops to check roadworthiness and have year round campaigns to check on route usage.
Now onto the enjoyable bit... routes.
Some excellent routes are:
Strata Florida in mid Wales. This is an excellent and generally fairly easy route that goes for miles through unspoilt countryside. It crosses a river a dozen or so times and this can be dangerous (there is a memorial to a girl who drowned when their vehicle toppled into the river). Do not do this track in bad weather as the river may be too fast to traverse.
Happy Valley in North Wales. This is an excellent trail that can be challenging, particularly the fairly small and innocuous looking step about half way along. Its a lot harder than it looks! The route is generally fairly easy but very narrow in places. Welly boot are advised as one of the gates is often in a big puddle of water. Scenery on this route is beautiful.
The Wayfarer in North Wales. This is a pretty long gentle route aside from the section where its been reinforced with railway sleepers. On occasion deliberate vandalism of this trail occurs to prevent 4x4 usage. This can take the form of a deep trench dug across the route or nails embedded in pieces of wood in the bottom of the flooded section. Scenery is amongst the best of any route with wide vistas and a really remote feeling.
Gatesgarth Pass in the Lake District. This is the holy grail of routes in my view. It requires an access permit to use it but its well worth the trouble to get. There is a limit on wheelbase for this trail of 100" due to the nature of the trail but they will relax this if you can make a good case (I took an ex-military FC101 over and that has a wheelbase of 101"). Its a long remote trail that climbs via a steep set of hairpin bends that will have you struggling for grip. The descent is equally challenging and even steeper in places. This is not a suitable trail for a beginner.
The Coachmans in the Lake District. This trail is an easy run out with only one section that gets very boggy. Its driveable in extreme cold weather as long as there isn't too much snow (the cold freezes the water in the bog). Snow can be a problem with this route. Again the views are spectacular and its an easy route for beginners (and it doesn't have many gates!).
Grizedale Forest in the Lake District (aka The Fox). This starts opposite the Grizedale forest visitor centre and is subject to an agreement to use it one way. Its an interesting and moderately challenging route that is very rocky on the way up.
Tarn Hows in the Lake District. A lovely and gentle route that skirts the edge of Tarn Hows. Makes a nice link between Grizedale and several other green lanes to the west.
There are a number of routes in the Peaks that are good but they are difficult to find and sadly most of the better ones are now TRO'd (Stanage Edge, Doctors Gate etc). Probably the best of the ones still available is Monsal Head. This is a steep and very challenging rocky climb from the river up onto the hills opposite the Monsal Head hotel. Once on the top the route flattens and follows the ridge where the views down onto the A6 are quite breathtaking. There have been incidents of anti 4x4 vandalism on this route (telephone poles dragged across the trail) but they are usually soon removed. That brings an interesting point. You are legally permitted to remove any obstruction over a legal route. This means fallen trees, barbed wire or telephone poles. If you do this be sure to notify the council afterwards and take photos. As always, do as little collateral damage as possible.
Another way to enjoy your 4x4 is to use a the wet roads site to find fords over rivers. Some of these can be challenging and great fun. Probably the best known is Violets Lane (Hertfordshire) where the road is the river bed for about a mile. Here's a youtube link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSHW5pdhne4
With fording ensure your vehicle is properly prepared. High air intake (water in the inlet manifold will ruin your day), extended breather tubes for axles and transmission and if petrol fully protected ignition system (this is one instance diesels are preferable to petrols). As a rule of thumb if you have not prepared for wading anything above axle height will put you at risk.
Depending where you are or want to go I may be able to give you more help getting started (I no longer have a 4x4 but can certainly give you pointers).
Good Pay and Play sites:
Bala Off Road Centre (near Bala in Wales)
Tixover near Peterborough (avoid the deep water as it will clog your radiator with silt)
Cowm Quarry in Lancashire (avoid the deep water as its highly abrasive due to the silt). (some footage of my old RRC at Cowm here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LVhQ98C984 )
France also has some excellent access. Les Ciques Pilliers north west of Paris looks amazing and incorporates a drive into an underground mine.The Alps has vast numbers of tracks suitable to green laning as does the Auvergne and the Pyrenees.
I'd love to have the balls to use this as God intended....But I think my wife would kill me!
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