Suggestions - for what 4x4 if not a Defender...

[mr_tony]

Looking for a budget tank of a 4x4 and I know next to nothing about the options I'm looking at...

Getting shot of a brilliant (but pointless) FFRR SC as its too nice to do the jobs I'm wanting to use it for where we now live..

Default option was to get a Defender (driven them before and like them) but they seem bloody expensive for what you get.
So with a 5k budget, whats as capable as a daily utility / site type vehicle that will deal with kids, mud, bikes, unmade road, snow and ice.
Only requirement is a decent heater.

Like the look of old land cruisers etc - but are they reliable? Can you get parts etc ok? Is a Jap import a problem?

[g7jtk]

Discovery.

[rouge59]

As always with threads of this type, the correct answer is a Forester XT.

[gareth h]

I've been bimbling about in my folks old LPG grand cherokee, it's low tech and worth £1500 tops, if your not planning on any extreme off roading you can pick up later diesel versions which have merc engines, might be worth checking them out.

[richs2891]

Mitsubishi Shogun,Toyota Land cruiser, Old shape Kia Sorrento, Nisan Pathfinder, ssangyong rexton, Jeep Grand Cherokee, Hyundai Terracon ?

[300bhp/ton]

mr_tony said:

Looking for a budget tank of a 4x4 and I know next to nothing about the options I'm looking at...

Getting shot of a brilliant (but pointless) FFRR SC as its too nice to do the jobs I'm wanting to use it for where we now live..

Default option was to get a Defender (driven them before and like them) but they seem bloody expensive for what you get.
So with a 5k budget, whats as capable as a daily utility / site type vehicle that will deal with kids, mud, bikes, unmade road, snow and ice.
Only requirement is a decent heater.

Like the look of old land cruisers etc - but are they reliable? Can you get parts etc ok? Is a Jap import a problem?

It really depends how much off road potential you want out of the box and how utility it needs to be for a site vehicle.

If you like Land Rovers, but not the price. Take a look at the Santana PS10. It's the last incarnation of the Land Rover 109, but superior to a 110 in many ways.

[tr7v8]

Jeep either Wrangler if you want serious offroader or Grand Cherokee.

[mr_tony]

Jeep Wrangler and Cherokee look smart options. Cherokee offers better load capacity.
Land cruiser similarly looks like a great option.

Forrester is a good shout too but I'm thinking a big old truck is a useful thing to have vs a slightly raised road car.

Lots of different land cruisers - some nice classic 70 series out there but figure they might be a bit of hard work to look after and maybe a 3.0D VX from around 2000 is a good shout for 5k...

[TLandCruiser]

What about a Nissan patrol?

[mr_tony]

TLandCruiser said:

What about a Nissan patrol?

Didn't know they existed. Having a look.
Spent all my petrolhead time staring at GT cars, my 4x4 knowledge is terrible...

Getting pretty excited looking at the 4.5 / 4.7 LC from the 90s.
Not sure which is better - the slightly older more retro looking 4.5 or the later more plentiful 4.7. All see to be available at around 4-5k...

[300bhp/ton]

I assume as you've responded to every other suggestion mentioned in the thread, that the Santana didn't appeal?

[TurboHatchback]

I am very biased but:



If you want a real 4x4 for doing actual 4x4 things then there really is no equal. Live axles (much stronger than a Defenders), triple diff locks, 4.2l straight 6 turbo diesel, manual box, they are the daddy. Parts availability is not a problem at all, dealer parts are expensive but there is a big aftermarket and a very helpful chap who breaks them and supplies used parts.

[mr_tony]

300bhp/ton said:

I assume as you've responded to every other suggestion mentioned in the thread, that the Santana didn't appeal?

Yes - although I needed to spend a bit more time to understand your suggestion before responding as I want immediately familiar. In the end a Defender doesn't appeal much either! guess I've refined what I really need though all these suggestions. However, it was interesting to find out about a model I had no idea that existed though - so thanks for that

I guess I spent too much of my youth bouncing around in Defenders across fields and I don't really have a lot of love for them when I think back! I respect them and their ability to be fixed with a lump hammer and some expert level swearing and their sheer capability in the rough stuff, but having thought about it the main requirement is a huge loadspace or the ability to transport mine and others kids in it in child seats - 7 seats here with the ability to get through anything the weather throws at us in a relatively isolated spot and cope with the site being churned up pretty badly while we carry out some extensive building and renovation...

[mr_tony]

Landcruiser is what I'm focussing on now.

Coming down to whether it's a last of the line 80 series, vs an early 100 series. Prefer the look of the 80, but the 100 is clearly a step forward technologically. However the 80 might have less gizmos to go wrong.

Thoughts on these ?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/331691763673?_trksid=p20...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/252038212350?_trksid=p20...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/221916110941?_trksid=p20...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/141793917701?_trksid=p20...

[TurboHatchback]

mr_tony said:

Landcruiser is what I'm focussing on now.

Coming down to whether it's a last of the line 80 series, vs an early 100 series. Prefer the look of the 80, but the 100 is clearly a step forward technologically. However the 80 might have less gizmos to go wrong.

Thoughts on these ?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/331691763673?_trksid=p20...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/252038212350?_trksid=p20...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/221916110941?_trksid=p20...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/141793917701?_trksid=p20...

The 100 is a step forward in terms of refinement and on-road capability but arguably a step backward in terms of off-road capability (though both are as capable as anyone is likely to need).

I see you're only looking at petrol models with LPG conversions, I know the petrol engines are solid but I would think carefully about range, LPG availability and potential running costs. They are likely to do ~15mpg on petrol and hence ~12mpg on gas, unless the gas tank is massive then the range won't be great. In the likely event that you regularly run out and end up running on petrol then that will start to hurt, they could burn their own value in petrol quite quickly!

A couple of points: The early 100 series had problems with weak front diffs failing and auto transmission problems. I believe these were all sorted by about 2001 but it would be worth googling this. Personally I would go for an 80, there's less to go wrong and I think they will hold their value better. It's hard to say whether the linked vehicles would be good or not, I've looked at many Cruisers and until you get underneath it and take it for a drive it's very hard to tell what sort of condition it's in, they vary massively depending on what sort of life they've lead. I'd go look at several and see what they're like before buying one.

[mr_tony]

I didn't plant to only look at petrol - thats just how its worked out in terms of what looks good at the budget I've set myself, I guess petrol ones just work out cheaper..

I know nothing about LPG - but I'm assuming that I can just run them normally on petrol and ignore the LPG entirely. Mileage will be pretty low so mucking about with LPG when I have nowhere local to fill up with it is a bit pointless..

Series 80 sounds like more my kind of thing, will take my time and look at a few over the next couple of weeks..

[TurboHatchback]

Petrols are certainly cheaper, mainly due to the enormous cost of running the things! The 4.2 diesel is a great engine and capable of intergalactic mileage so don't be put off by high mileages, buy on condition. Don't be fooled by shiny paintwork either, many nice looking trucks on the outside are horror stories when you start digging a bit deeper.

As you might have gathered I'm fairly in to 80s, feel free to PM me if you'd like any advice about buying/owning them.

[300bhp/ton]

mr_tony said:

Yes - although I needed to spend a bit more time to understand your suggestion before responding as I want immediately familiar. In the end a Defender doesn't appeal much either! guess I've refined what I really need though all these suggestions. However, it was interesting to find out about a model I had no idea that existed though - so thanks for that

I guess I spent too much of my youth bouncing around in Defenders across fields and I don't really have a lot of love for them when I think back! I respect them and their ability to be fixed with a lump hammer and some expert level swearing and their sheer capability in the rough stuff, but having thought about it the main requirement is a huge loadspace or the ability to transport mine and others kids in it in child seats - 7 seats here with the ability to get through anything the weather throws at us in a relatively isolated spot and cope with the site being churned up pretty badly while we carry out some extensive building and renovation...

No worries

I was basing my suggestion on this comment from your op you see:

mr_tony said:

Default option was to get a Defender (driven them before and like them) but they seem bloody expensive for what you get.

The Santana offers everything a Defender 110 does, but for half the cost.

There are usually quite a few on ebay around the £4-5k mark.


What you get in return is an R380 gearbox, LT230 transfer box (but allows 2wd running for better mpg). These are the same as a Defender 110. You get essentially the same axles, they aren't as strong as Yota ones, but to be fair, on normal size tyres (say up to 32") they are perfectly fine. It's when you get bigger tyre than that, that they become an issue.

The PS10 uses an Iveco 2.8 litre diesel engine, which is more powerful than the Land Rover offerings, it's also reliable and tunable and pretty good on fuel.

The PS10 rides on parabolic leaf suspension. Paraboloics are clever, in that the leaves only touch at the ends and in the middle, unlike a regular leaf pack on older Land Rovers. The advantage is, each leaf can act independently and you get a ride similar to coil springs. But a more robust and simple leaf suspension system, (less moving parts and less bushes to wear out). In fact the front suspension of the Santana has more travel than a Defender does!

In terms of ride, 110's ride pretty well. I don't think an LC will ride any better, it'll have better NVH, but that'something different.

The best thing about the Santana is its utility nature. Robust and easy to maintain and climbing in and out with muddy boots is no probs as all.

They do a 10 seater model, so loads of room for everyone. The rear tailgate is also wider than a 110's, wide enough to fit a standard Euro pallet in if you wanted (designed on purpose for this).








I won't say don't look at the Toyota's, because frankly, I like them too.

[mr_tony]

[quote=300bhp/ton]

The Santana offers everything a Defender 110 does, but for half the cost.

There are usually quite a few on ebay around the £4-5k mark.


What you get in return is an R380 gearbox, LT230 transfer box (but allows 2wd running for better mpg). These are the same as a Defender 110. You get essentially the same axles, they aren't as strong as Yota ones, but to be fair, on normal size tyres (say up to 32") they are perfectly fine. It's when you get bigger tyre than that, that they become an issue.

The PS10 uses an Iveco 2.8 litre diesel engine, which is more powerful than the Land Rover offerings, it's also reliable and tunable and pretty good on fuel.

The PS10 rides on parabolic leaf suspension. Paraboloics are clever, in that the leaves only touch at the ends and in the middle, unlike a regular leaf pack on older Land Rovers. The advantage is, each leaf can act independently and you get a ride similar to coil springs. But a more robust and simple leaf suspension system, (less moving parts and less bushes to wear out). In fact the front suspension of the Santana has more travel than a Defender does!

In terms of ride, 110's ride pretty well. I don't think an LC will ride any better, it'll have better NVH, but that'something different.

The best thing about the Santana is its utility nature. Robust and easy to maintain and climbing in and out with muddy boots is no probs as all.

They do a 10 seater model, so loads of room for everyone. The rear tailgate is also wider than a 110's, wide enough to fit a standard Euro pallet in if you wanted (designed on purpose for this).



Selfishly I think I'd enjoy the above - or a defender. But my boys will certainly be happier strapped in a land cruiser than a defender when it's required

[RumRunner]

Shogun.
I Also have Nitro...Cheap and chips.and much better than what you would think. I have the base model without stupid size rims.
Had most 4x4 through the years...many are overpriced....Defender