REAL Off-road built like a tank that doesn't break the bank?

[J4x4K]

Hi everybody!

First time posting. But I have been reading for a while.

I want to buy a SUV with real off road capabilities. So the poser luxury cars posing as off roads don't count. Not looking for something with a lot of plastic and beauty appliances wrapped around.

It also needs to be reliable and built like a tank.

But it can't be a crappy ride because it will also be my daily family ride. And it needs to be 4 doors as well.

The reason it needs to be built like a tank is because we just had a baby and there are way too many idiots driving out there. We have a case in the family of somebody who was turned into a vegetable by an idiot who hit their car in the back while standing on a red light. So I want to ditch my current car to by a "road tank". I thought an off-road would be the best idea since I also enjoy off-roading.

The off-roading will be mainly weekend trips. But as we live around the mountains it's also great to have a capable 4x4 for the snowy winter.

To be honest, apart from the off-roading, a Hummer H1 would be perfect in many ways. But way too expensive and also a bit too big. Plus the off roading is not that great. If you get stuck it's hard to get it out etc. Besides I'm not sure I would really like to drive a Hummer around town. But you get what I'm aiming for.

So I had originally thought of a Land Rover Defender. But I learned it has a rural ride and this is to be my daily family driver. So I need some level of comfort. Need nothing fancy. Just some basics. So the Defender is out.

Lastly it would be good if I like how the car looks like. It's at the bottom of my needs list but still.

So here are the ones I have narrowed down to:

XJ Cherokee: Heard it's very reliable, a real off road and they are not expensive. They have a reasonable level of comfort without being one of those poser trucks.

Lada Niva 4 doors: I'm learning they are hard to find and way more pricey than the 2 doors version.


This is basically the only two I seem to be sure about apart from the H1 and Defender.

But I also looked at a 1st generation Pathfinder as I read it's the best out of them and the toughest. But not sure about it. Also heard the Xterra is OK, but they never sold it in Europe so I can't buy them here.

The Wrangler Unlimited is expensive and seems to not be a good daily driver and I'm also not sure about the safety against crashes. The normal Wrangler is not exactly a tank. Great off road though, of course.

Are there any other recommendations?

Trying to stay under 5K budget.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Edited by J4x4K on Monday 11th May 17:02

[SHutchinson]

What kind of car do you use for off-roading at the moment?

[Truckosaurus]

Land Cruiser.

Although I'm not convinced it would be any safer than £5k's worth of Volvo S60 with a full complement of airbags and crumple zones.

[scrwright]

XJs and nivas are old designs that dont fare well in crashes. Get something more modern

[Gary C]

I was going to suggest a land cruiser, Kannku use them and they seem to work great off-road with some diff guards.

Not bad on the road and as safe as most. A Nissan patrol is built like a tank. Saw one in collision with a focus which was torn apart while the patrol just had a leaky radiator and was able to drive home while the focus driver had to be cut out.

But of course it's tyres that will give it snow capability which can be a bit noisy on a dry road.

[J4x4K]

SHutchinson said:

What kind of car do you use for off-roading at the moment?

I don't have an off road at the moment. Had a Niva back in the day.

[J4x4K]

scrwright said:

XJs and nivas are old designs that dont fare well in crashes. Get something more modern

Really? This is not what I have heard. But I'm not talking about frontal crashes etc. In a frontal crash in the speedway, at that speed no car will be 100% safe. I'm more worried about small stuff like idiots hitting you when you are standing still etc.

But I heard the XJ is very tough and the I had a Niva and although it's light I had the impression that in a crash with a normal car it would be indestructible. With a big heavy truck or bus is a different matter of course.

[J4x4K]

Truckosaurus said:

Land Cruiser.

Although I'm not convinced it would be any safer than £5k's worth of Volvo S60 with a full complement of airbags and crumple zones.

Not a big fan of the Land Cruiser. It's more in that big luxury truck category. Are they really that good?

[J4x4K]

Gary C said:

I was going to suggest a land cruiser, Kannku use them and they seem to work great off-road with some diff guards.

Not bad on the road and as safe as most. A Nissan patrol is built like a tank. Saw one in collision with a focus which was torn apart while the patrol just had a leaky radiator and was able to drive home while the focus driver had to be cut out.

But of course it's tyres that will give it snow capability which can be a bit noisy on a dry road.

Well, I can have different tires for winter or snow. This is not a big deal.

Interesting about the Nissan Patrol. Which generation was it? Although the newer ones seem a bit "sissy-fied", the 4th generation ones look pretty tough.

The problem is that there was a time when off roads were just that. Then soccer moms and everybody started buying them and even some tough older ones became basically luxury trucks, filled to the gills with optionals, wrapped in plastic ground effects and decoration, so heavy and big that it would get stuck everywhere and just more luxury than toughness. So it's hard to know what to get these days. Reason I'm looking more at the old generation trucks.

I know car design evolved to be safer for crashes than older models. But the way it works is a modern car is safer than a 1950's chevy because it is designed to disintegrate and absorb impact. But there is something to be said about an off-road with actual steel bumpers instead of plastic covered ones and something just built like a tank. Like I'm sure design wise a modern SUV like some Hyundai is made to be safer for crashes from a technology point of view. But I'm sure a Hummer H1 would crush it and barely have a scratch, even tough the Hummer design is what now, 20 years at least? You know where I'm coming from?

I think those SUVs that worry too much about being pretty have their priorities screwed.

[PhillipM]

The point of modern crumple zones is that something 'built like a tank' that 'just crushes' whatever it runs into transfers all that shock into the cabin/occupants and does exactly what you're trying to avoid in the first place.

[J4x4K]

PhillipM said:

The point of modern crumple zones is that something 'built like a tank' that 'just crushes' whatever it runs into transfers all that shock into the cabin/occupants and does exactly what you're trying to avoid in the first place.

Yes, I understand the principle.

But take for example the example I mentioned in the family. The impact was not even that hard. The car was a modern car and and I'm sure utilized the modern crumple zones. But he is now a vegetable for life. What hit it in the back was also just a car, not a truck or anything. According to witnesses the hit didn't look like a big deal at all. I have the impression had it been a bigger or tougher car it would have barely moved with the impact, or maybe if it was a lifted off road it would have hit the tires.

Take the example by Gary C about the Patrol vs the Focus and the Focus disintegrated but the Patrol was OK. I'm sure the Focus uses modern crumple zones? And it looks like the Patrol may have been an older model or it would also have broken apart because of the crumple zones. But according to what Gary said it looks like it didn't.


I mean, do you honestly think a car hitting a Hummer H1 would harm the Hummer occupants unless like extreme high speeds, which then everything is basically a moot point anyways?

Edited by J4x4K on Monday 11th May 13:21

[nute]

How about an old VW Toureag (sp?)

Will have to be a v high milage one for 5K but well built, good off road and good on road ride. Will need to be a Mk1 as VW removed the proper 4wd when they "upgraded" the model in 2010ish. Prior to this date they all had locking central diff and low ratio but then it vanished in favour of the std all wheel drive system. The oldr ones also have a pump on the coling system which lets you get 20mins heat via the cabin heater without running the engine.

I do a lot of shooting and farm work and with the right tyres its very good off road. Fuel economy isnt great though...

[Truckosaurus]

J4x4K said:

Not a big fan of the Land Cruiser. It's more in that big luxury truck category. Are they really that good?

The smaller Prado/Colorado model is a similar size to an early Discovery, Cherokee or Pathfinder.

The proper Amazons are big but not really luxurious.

[J4x4K]

Somebody I was talking too just suggested a Hummer H2. Apparently they are not a poser like the H3 which is basically a Chevy Blazer with new skin. Not as legit as the H1 I'm sure but seems to be a real Hummer of sorts. Also not as weird to drive around town as the H1 I suppose and nowhere as expensive as the H1. Although I doubt a good one can be found for 5K and I think there would still be some stigma of driving a Hummer around.

[J4x4K]

nute said:

How about an old VW Toureag (sp?)

Will have to be a v high milage one for 5K but well built, good off road and good on road ride. Will need to be a Mk1 as VW removed the proper 4wd when they "upgraded" the model in 2010ish. Prior to this date they all had locking central diff and low ratio but then it vanished in favour of the std all wheel drive system. The oldr ones also have a pump on the coling system which lets you get 20mins heat via the cabin heater without running the engine.

I do a lot of shooting and farm work and with the right tyres its very good off road. Fuel economy isnt great though...

Not a fan of it stylistically. But I'm sure they are built like tanks, at least mechanically. When it comes to VW you can shoot them with a bazuca and they will still find a way to run. Externally not so sure though. But if I'm to start considering these plastic wrapped and more fancy SUVs I might as well just buy some Grand Cherokee and call it a day. It's a Jeep, has some luxury and seems to be good in off roading as well.

[J4x4K]

Truckosaurus said:

The smaller Prado/Colorado model is a similar size to an early Discovery, Cherokee or Pathfinder.

The proper Amazons are big but not really luxurious.

Do the Land Cruisers have anything on the Nissan Patrols? I kind of like the Patrols better specially the Y60.

[Gary C]

J4x4K said:

PhillipM said:

The point of modern crumple zones is that something 'built like a tank' that 'just crushes' whatever it runs into transfers all that shock into the cabin/occupants and does exactly what you're trying to avoid in the first place.

Yes, I understand the principle.

But take for example the example I mentioned in the family. The impact was not even that hard. The car was a modern car and and I'm sure utilized the modern crumple zones. But he is now a vegetable for life. What hit it in the back was also just a car, not a truck or anything. According to witnesses the hit didn't look like a big deal at all. I have the impression had it been a bigger or tougher car it would have barely moved with the impact, or maybe if it was a lifted off road it would have hit the tires.

Take the example by Gary C about the Patrol vs the Focus and the Focus disintegrated but the Patrol was OK. I'm sure the Focus uses modern crumple zones? And it looks like the Patrol may have been an older model or it would also have broken apart because of the crumple zones. But according to what Gary said it looks like it didn't.


I mean, do you honestly think a car hitting a Hummer H1 would harm the Hummer occupants unless like extreme high speeds, which then everything is basically a moot point anyways?

Edited by J4x4K on Monday 11th May 13:21

It was an old patrol (mid 90's I think) built when they did not have to pass the same crash tests as cars so much more ridiged. I think it used the focus as a crumple zone !. I think if you hit a big tree or a motorway bridge stanchion, it might be a different story I suppose.

The land cruiser I always though of as a Chelsea tractor until I did an off road driving day with Kannku in the lakes. While I drove the landrover, the others in the group were in land cruisers and they did everything the landrover did, and I mean proper off road stuff, not just a muddy track.

[TurboHatchback]

J4x4K said:

Do the Land Cruisers have anything on the Nissan Patrols? I kind of like the Patrols better specially the Y60.

Y60 Patrols are thin on the ground nowadays (especially with the most desirable 4.2td engine) and often rusty. The Y61 patrol is a better vehicle all round IMHO and certainly attainable for £5k.

For £5k the full size Landcruiser you would be looking at is the 80 series. These are proper beasts, built to last and take on pretty much anything you can think of. They weigh 2.5+ tons, have immensely strong live axles (coil sprung), triple electric locking differentials and proper engines (4.2td I6 or 4.5 petrol I6), if you're after the daddy of off road trucks that can still be used as a family car then these are it.

That said if safety is what you're after then a big old 4x4 is not the answer. Yes they are big, strong and heavy but they don't stop or turn anything like a decent car, they will roll under certain violent cornering moves, they don't have the active safety features that a modern car has etc etc. Living in the UK I can safely say you don't need one either, a normal largish car possibly with AWD and winter tyres is the practical answer, an Audi A6 Quattro Avant or Subaru Legacy etc. I've had two 80 series Landcruisers, they are great at what they do but for day to day use they are totally unnecessary and rather compromised.

[jay140285]

for 5k you could just get into a Jeep WK.

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...

[J4x4K]

Gary C said:

It was an old patrol (mid 90's I think) built when they did not have to pass the same crash tests as cars so much more ridiged.

So it was the Y60. I thought so. It looks as tough as a tank! Best looking one from all the Patrols too.

Gary C said:

I think it used the focus as a crumple zone !. I think if you hit a big tree or a motorway bridge stanchion, it might be a different story I suppose.

Hehehe. I guess saying the Focus did become the crumple zone is not off. Hence why I want a bigger car than just a normal sized car. But I'm not really worried about trees or bridges and walls. In 20 years of driving I have never hit anybody or anything. I don't drive like a maniac or irresponsibly. Not even in my younger years I did this kind of thing. I'm more worried about idiots hitting me than me hitting anything. As most vehicles on the road are cars, chances are more of the idiots drive cars instead of off roads. So more cars to be used as crumple zones if they hit me. If they hit me it's their own fault.

Gary C said:

The land cruiser I always though of as a Chelsea tractor until I did an off road driving day with Kannku in the lakes. While I drove the landrover, the others in the group were in land cruisers and they did everything the landrover did, and I mean proper off road stuff, not just a muddy track.

Ok. Just not a fan of them or any of the Toyota trucks. If I have to go Japanese, one of the Nissans would probably be my call. Either Pathfinder or Patrol etc. But then again why not just a Grand Cherokee if I am to go that big? What do you think of them? I like better the XJ Cherokee but...