Discussion
My eldest (19) uses our Citroen C1 but keeps expressing desire to have a Land Rover, my first thought is that is a way to experience pain, in terms of driving it and keeping it on the road but
I want to help him a bit here as I want him to have something he enjoys, could be good working on it and showing him stuff.
So, can you get a viable Landy for 3 grand or so, which engine is the least rubbish and what to look out for ? are there any pitfalls to watch out for other than rust in the chassis/body and general knackeredness ?
90 or 110 ?
Anywhere not too horrendous on insuring them and what have your experiences been of them with younger drivers, to be fair he has been pretty sensible thus far.
I want to help him a bit here as I want him to have something he enjoys, could be good working on it and showing him stuff.
So, can you get a viable Landy for 3 grand or so, which engine is the least rubbish and what to look out for ? are there any pitfalls to watch out for other than rust in the chassis/body and general knackeredness ?
90 or 110 ?
Anywhere not too horrendous on insuring them and what have your experiences been of them with younger drivers, to be fair he has been pretty sensible thus far.
Does he want the full masochist set-up or just a landy of some type? For £3k you can pick up a decent Disco that will go pretty much anywhere a Defender will but will not break your spine and freeze you to death/deafen you while doing it. A £3k Defender might be more rust than vehicle.
110's are a lot more comfortable than a 90 on the road, I always found the 90 pitched rather uncomfortably, and so did our collies who always loved riding around in the back of the 110 but occasionally threw up in the 90.
I have a soft spot for landrovers having learned to drive in 110, it was my money I'd buy a Hilux.
I have a soft spot for landrovers having learned to drive in 110, it was my money I'd buy a Hilux.
For £3,000 you cant get a near perfect (old car rules) late 90's 300tdi discovery which will be brilliant for everyday and off-roading with a few simple mods. Alternatively get an early 90 with a 200tdi conversion which will be less reliable, cold rattly and slower along with the greater possibly of rust but if he wants the 'landy' that's the one to get (you can get used to the rattles cold and sedate pace).
I own both and the disco is a much better vehicle all round but if I had to keep one for ever it would be my old 90 in a heartbeat, there is something about them that just is unquantifiable-y brilliant.
Both will be great for car control and be aware 90's do like to lift of oversteer in the wet which is fun/scary!!
on a practical note steer clear of td5's for £3,000! and depending on the mileage he does seriously consider a V8 petrol in both but especially the discovery as they do get along well and make 'that'noise.
Insurance I find pretty reasonable £360 p/a for the defender and the same for the disco on an admiral multicar policy. they do like old landrovers to be 'garaged' however as they are very easy to steal!
Ag
I own both and the disco is a much better vehicle all round but if I had to keep one for ever it would be my old 90 in a heartbeat, there is something about them that just is unquantifiable-y brilliant.
Both will be great for car control and be aware 90's do like to lift of oversteer in the wet which is fun/scary!!
on a practical note steer clear of td5's for £3,000! and depending on the mileage he does seriously consider a V8 petrol in both but especially the discovery as they do get along well and make 'that'noise.
Insurance I find pretty reasonable £360 p/a for the defender and the same for the disco on an admiral multicar policy. they do like old landrovers to be 'garaged' however as they are very easy to steal!
Ag
J4CKO said:
Was looking and SWB Pajero Shoguns popped up as well, can get one a lot cheaper and they look less purgatorial, I will ask him if that would do the trick or whether it has to be a Land Rover, I think he just wants some off road pose value.
Get him a Land Cruiser then! 90% of the defenders capability, but some creature comforts and stupid reliability. 
I've had a 200TDi 90, and a 200TDi Disco. Both can rot like hell, both are easy to fix when they break (they will break, it's inevitable). The disco is way more civilised than the defender, but the 'fender gets under your skin. Mine were both off-road toys, so relatively little use, in the end i'm well rid of the disco, i'd have the 90 back in a heartbeat, I loved it, despite it's foibles
J4CKO said:
So, can you get a viable Landy for 3 grand or so, which engine is the least rubbish and what to look out for ? are there any pitfalls to watch out for other than rust in the chassis/body and general knackeredness ?
I paid half that for a 40k from new 1980 s3 88" station wagon last autumn. It wasn't on the road, but just needed brakes, one chassis outrigger and a damn good service. It's tidy as they come, too.2.25 petrol, which means slow and thirsty. (16-20mpg)
The other standard original option was the 2.25 diesel. Slightly less thirsty, far slower.
Get into 90/110/Defender territory, and prices go up, because they're more "usable". 2.5D/TD/200TDi, with 300TDi, TD5 and Puma more recent and pricier. More comfortable due to the boingy coils, but a lot more bushes and linkages to wear and introduce play.
Chassis rot. Bulkheads rot. The rest is ally.
I'd suggest a Series 3. You should get a pretty good one without pushing the budget, an earlier one will be tax-free, and (your son's age allowing it) classic insurance is very cheap. Have it as a secondary vehicle while still using the C1 to do "normal car" stuff.
They are very much "The Land Rover Driving Experience", if he wants that (I do, which is why I own one, but not as a daily driver!), simple and easy to work on, and they're one of those vehicles where you can practically build one from the ground up just from aftermarket spares (There was a guy who actually did this, I believe in about 2000, and it came to something like £27k for a 109 station wagon).
The primary thing is, as people have said, rust. The further a piece of chassis is from a leaky mechanical part (that would be any mechanical part), the more likely it is to be evaporating of its own accord. Same with bulkheads.
They're only horrible to drive if you forget that they're basically tractors with passenger seats.
They are very much "The Land Rover Driving Experience", if he wants that (I do, which is why I own one, but not as a daily driver!), simple and easy to work on, and they're one of those vehicles where you can practically build one from the ground up just from aftermarket spares (There was a guy who actually did this, I believe in about 2000, and it came to something like £27k for a 109 station wagon).
The primary thing is, as people have said, rust. The further a piece of chassis is from a leaky mechanical part (that would be any mechanical part), the more likely it is to be evaporating of its own accord. Same with bulkheads.
They're only horrible to drive if you forget that they're basically tractors with passenger seats.
Don't rule out a discovery or classic range rover as they are just as good off road and much nicer to live with on road.
If you go down the defender route then all things being equal, a 110 will be cheaper than a 90. This is because 90s are better off road due to being shorter, so supply / demand makes the 110 cheaper.
At that price range the important factor when buying is chassis rust. Rear cross members are bad for rust as are bulkheads. The bulk head requires a shed load of labour to replace and is difficult to repair in situ. Walk away from a car with a rusty bulkhead however cheap it is.
They are simple and basic to work on.
If you go down the defender route then all things being equal, a 110 will be cheaper than a 90. This is because 90s are better off road due to being shorter, so supply / demand makes the 110 cheaper.
At that price range the important factor when buying is chassis rust. Rear cross members are bad for rust as are bulkheads. The bulk head requires a shed load of labour to replace and is difficult to repair in situ. Walk away from a car with a rusty bulkhead however cheap it is.
They are simple and basic to work on.
I thought we had ruled it out for now but he is doggedly trying to work out whether he can afford one, he only earns £100 - £150 a week in a local shop whilst he is at college but I will help a bit, I just want him to have what he wants really, but he need to work for it.
Thanks for all the info.
Kind of wish he wasnt fixated on a Land Rover, I know they are the original but kind of thinking he may be able to get something else that does the job that is cheaper to buy and run.
Thanks for all the info.
Kind of wish he wasnt fixated on a Land Rover, I know they are the original but kind of thinking he may be able to get something else that does the job that is cheaper to buy and run.
J4CKO said:
Kind of wish he wasnt fixated on a Land Rover, I know they are the original but kind of thinking he may be able to get something else that does the job that is cheaper to buy and run.
Parts for Landies are ludicrously cheap. OK, there are some utterly abysmal quality bits out there (general rule of thumb: Avoid blue boxes/bags...), but bits can be damn near free.TooMany2cvs said:
Parts for Landies are ludicrously cheap. OK, there are some utterly abysmal quality bits out there (general rule of thumb: Avoid blue boxes/bags...), but bits can be damn near free.
True. If you use paddocks, and buy britpart (known as s
t part) then you can get an oil/ fuel/ air filter kit for £13!! Buy oil when it's on offer at Asda and you've serviced it for £25Crossflow Kid said:
Aids0G said:
on a practical note steer clear of td5's for £3,000!
Why are people so scared of TD5s?How is a late 90s TD5 any more or less of a gamble than a late 90s 300TDi?
Just because the former has an ECU doesn't make it rely on black magic to run.
Crossflow Kid said:
Why are people so scared of TD5s?
How is a late 90s TD5 any more or less of a gamble than a late 90s 300TDi?
Just because the former has an ECU doesn't make it rely on black magic to run.
I don't think he was making a point about a TD5. More a TD5 at that budget. It's bottom of the rusty market at that price. He's right. How is a late 90s TD5 any more or less of a gamble than a late 90s 300TDi?
Just because the former has an ECU doesn't make it rely on black magic to run.
eltax91 said:
Crossflow Kid said:
Why are people so scared of TD5s?
How is a late 90s TD5 any more or less of a gamble than a late 90s 300TDi?
Just because the former has an ECU doesn't make it rely on black magic to run.
I don't think he was making a point about a TD5. More a TD5 at that budget. It's bottom of the rusty market at that price. He's right. How is a late 90s TD5 any more or less of a gamble than a late 90s 300TDi?
Just because the former has an ECU doesn't make it rely on black magic to run.
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