Banger 4x4 for Africa
Discussion
Right, this is probably going to be a strange one for you all but I'm currently in the market for a £1000/1500 decent size off roader to head around Africa with and need a bit of advice. I've been looking at them for a while and the two main contendors are old land rover discos and toyota hiluxs. I've seen there are so many discos for very little money available with all the aftermarket off road goodies fitted but I've heard so many scare stories about land rover reliability and the cost of parts which has made me lean a little more towards the toyota side of things even though they cost a little more and many more are standard cars. I'm hoping there are some off road entusiasts who mess about with cheap 4x4s on this who could shed some light on this for me since, being honest, I have no idea what I'm doing when it comes to 4x4s. I am mechanically minded and do work on my own cars but things that go off road have never been something I've owned. It doesnt have to be one of the two cars listed but the main criteria it has to meet is
1. Moderatley reliable
2. Parts aren't too expensive. My daily is an E36 M3 so I'm not an idiot expecting to pay corsa prices for stuff but nothing stupidly expensive.
3. A decent size. There will be 3 guys in it and a little camping/survival gear
4. Easy to work on with minimal tools.
5. Parts readily available in Africa. I know thats a hard one but I'll ask anyway on the offchance any of you have traveled that way.
I'm also assuming its the same case with tuning a sports car that its much cheaper to buy something with a winch and all the off road gear rather than build it yourself?
Any advice would be greatly appreciated
1. Moderatley reliable
2. Parts aren't too expensive. My daily is an E36 M3 so I'm not an idiot expecting to pay corsa prices for stuff but nothing stupidly expensive.
3. A decent size. There will be 3 guys in it and a little camping/survival gear
4. Easy to work on with minimal tools.
5. Parts readily available in Africa. I know thats a hard one but I'll ask anyway on the offchance any of you have traveled that way.
I'm also assuming its the same case with tuning a sports car that its much cheaper to buy something with a winch and all the off road gear rather than build it yourself?
Any advice would be greatly appreciated
where in africa are you going?
i've worked in cameroon, senegal, mauritania, ivory coast, chad, mozambique, uganda, ethiopia, kenya and tanzania. the common feature in all those places was the hilux. they're everywhere, equalled only in numbers by the toyota hi-ace and the land cruiser [all years and models]. third place would be the older nissan patrol.
you do see the odd land rover here and there but they are rare and usually driven by brits. stick with toyota, they have decent dealer networks in africa and parts are seemingly easier to come by.
i've worked in cameroon, senegal, mauritania, ivory coast, chad, mozambique, uganda, ethiopia, kenya and tanzania. the common feature in all those places was the hilux. they're everywhere, equalled only in numbers by the toyota hi-ace and the land cruiser [all years and models]. third place would be the older nissan patrol.
you do see the odd land rover here and there but they are rare and usually driven by brits. stick with toyota, they have decent dealer networks in africa and parts are seemingly easier to come by.
I am still to figure out my exact route but so far the only thing I know for certain is I'd be driving down through Spain to the ferry to Morocco. I'm going to have to check the stability of each country before making a set route and checking entry requirements. I've seen loads of Toyota pick up trucks in all the pictures of Africa I've seen but that's all I have to go on. Still leaning towards a hilux currently although I was tempted for one of these little jap 4x4 things but I think they maybe too small.
NeMiSiS said:
Mitsubishi Delica.
I was actually thinking about one of those due to that added size for sleeping in and I personally think they look really cool, especially the older ones. Its too late though as I bought an M reg 3.0td hilux last night for £1000 but thank you all for the advice.
Good call on the Hilux, not as tough as a Landcruiser or Nissan Patrol/Safari but solid enough and easy to get parts anywhere.
Most common issue with the 3.0td is head gaskets, the later intercooled ones are better but make sure the cooling system is in good condition. A larger exhaust can help get rid of the heat too if you're planning on working it hard in a hot climate.
Most common issue with the 3.0td is head gaskets, the later intercooled ones are better but make sure the cooling system is in good condition. A larger exhaust can help get rid of the heat too if you're planning on working it hard in a hot climate.
Edited by GravelBen on Monday 6th October 10:26
I'm in Malawi and everyone says get a Toyota!
Bring parts with you if you can, prices are high here.
I went for a 2005 Landcruiser Prado with the boat-anchor 5L engine. It's pathetically slow - being non-turbo but on the plus side there's less to go wrong and the engine has been used in lots of Toyotas over the years so its a common engine that hopefully could be fixed by most mechanics. I do get very frustrated driving up hills in it, it really is that slow, but the standard of driving/roads/road safety is so poor, why would you want to go faster?!
Bring parts with you if you can, prices are high here.
I went for a 2005 Landcruiser Prado with the boat-anchor 5L engine. It's pathetically slow - being non-turbo but on the plus side there's less to go wrong and the engine has been used in lots of Toyotas over the years so its a common engine that hopefully could be fixed by most mechanics. I do get very frustrated driving up hills in it, it really is that slow, but the standard of driving/roads/road safety is so poor, why would you want to go faster?!
An old Disco would be fine, rot usually kills them here but that shouldn't worry you over there. The 200/300tdi engines are very reliable if you get a good one, gearbox and axles tough as old boots. They are very simple vehicles really.
Avoid one with all the off road kit, that's a sign that it could have been thrashed. A nice bogo one is what you want, throw an Engel fridge in the back, selection of spares, a jack, a strop and a shovel and you're away.
A good set of tyres would help avoid punctures, and learn how to plug tyres.
A cheap car will help with Carnet requirements as well (as they are based on vehicle value) you don't need one for Morocco through which is why it's so popular with off roaders (and French motor homers). Went last year and it's a lot of fun over there.
Avoid one with all the off road kit, that's a sign that it could have been thrashed. A nice bogo one is what you want, throw an Engel fridge in the back, selection of spares, a jack, a strop and a shovel and you're away.
A good set of tyres would help avoid punctures, and learn how to plug tyres.
A cheap car will help with Carnet requirements as well (as they are based on vehicle value) you don't need one for Morocco through which is why it's so popular with off roaders (and French motor homers). Went last year and it's a lot of fun over there.
cozmcrae said:
I've heard so many scare stories about land rover reliability and the cost of parts
I have no idea were you get that idea. At that money you are talking a 200/300Tdi, mechanically these are bomb proof, strong engine, gearbox, transfer box and transmission. These engines still run well at 200,000 miles and I know one going strong at 460,000 miles. Mechanically the biggest risks are water pump or broken cam belt but unlike most engines this is rarely terminal and can be fixed by even inept mechanics like myself.When it comes to expensive parts Jeeps win by a mile. A pair of front wheel bearing for Jeep Grand Cherokee will cost £400. An Land Rover will fit 4 timken wheel bearing with new seals for £25, timing belt kit £25, new caliper at £40, new CV join or water pump £50.
Land Rover spares are not expensive, check them out for your self at Paddocks
http://www.paddockspares.com/parts-and-accessories...
If you can find any equivelent Hilux part at less than twice the price I will be very very surprised.
Avoid fourtraks, older ones are cheap so got popular with off roaders a few years back, but they blow head gaskets all the time and only fit for weighing in because it is neally impossible to fix.
The achilles heal for old Discoveries is rot, wheel arches particularly rear, boot floor, rear body mounts, and bump stop mounts.
Since you want this for overlanding I would aim to keep mechanical things as standard as possible, perhaps heavy duty but same height rear springs. They can easily take second (leisure) battery under the bonnet to power a fridge, if use different batteries you should use a split charger and probably replace the tdi alternator with the high output one from a V8.
Edited by Martin4x4 on Saturday 22 November 08:45
Martin4x4 said:
When it comes to expensive parts Jeeps win by a mile. A pair of wheel bearing for Jeep Grand Cherokee will cost 400.
Just to clarify, a TIMKEN rear wheel bearing "Kit" for a Grand Cherokee WJ which includes the bearing, seal and locking ring is £55. I should know, I've done mine ! 
However Id agree parts availability for Jeeps is below Land Rover in the UK. But I guess that's nothing new in that fact.
Gotta be a 4x4. Even in a large-ish city here in Malawi, the general advice is get a 4x4. Plenty of small cars/saloons around, but when the rain comes it comes down pretty hard and the quality of roads varies enormously from smooth tarmac to dirt road. Wouldn't take much to stop a 2wd car.
Hi Have you looked into the cost of your " Carnet de Passage "
http://www.rac.co.uk/travel/driving-abroad/carnet-...
I drove from Brighton to Cape Town in a series 3 Land Rover sold it in C/T bought a Suzuki 750 doctor big then drove it to Dar es Salam. The cost of the carnet was far more than the L/R.
Don't bother with a winch mounted on the vehicle - get yourself a tirfor winch from ebay not only can you pull your self out of trouble, you can lift you engine out using a tree.
good luck jon
http://www.rac.co.uk/travel/driving-abroad/carnet-...
I drove from Brighton to Cape Town in a series 3 Land Rover sold it in C/T bought a Suzuki 750 doctor big then drove it to Dar es Salam. The cost of the carnet was far more than the L/R.
Don't bother with a winch mounted on the vehicle - get yourself a tirfor winch from ebay not only can you pull your self out of trouble, you can lift you engine out using a tree.
good luck jon
Best is Vitara/ MK1 Grand vitara 2.0 5door Petrol. Chain Driven cams no turbos nothing complex. Low Box.
Standard vehicle of choice in the Caribbean...easy to fix strong mechanicals...not a lot to go wrong.
I have had plenty of differen 4x4's and presently Shogun 2.8 and Dodge Nitro. Mk1 Disco V8 manual was also a decent tool. But many Vitaras...they just work.
Standard vehicle of choice in the Caribbean...easy to fix strong mechanicals...not a lot to go wrong.
I have had plenty of differen 4x4's and presently Shogun 2.8 and Dodge Nitro. Mk1 Disco V8 manual was also a decent tool. But many Vitaras...they just work.
Edited by Rum Runner on Saturday 27th December 22:00
FWIW- Mate of mine is currently touring Africa in a VW LT35 van, his view so far it you really don't need a 4X4, the Really offroad parts require you to walk anyway.
http://overlandcampervan.wordpress.com/the-vehicle...
That said- almost everyone he meets is in a Toyota, LR or Mercedes 4x4 :-)
http://overlandcampervan.wordpress.com/the-vehicle...
That said- almost everyone he meets is in a Toyota, LR or Mercedes 4x4 :-)
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