One day I want to go Off Road

[backgammon]

Bit quiet in this section so let's go hypothetical

if you had just a grand to spend on an off roader for general driving, laning, mucking about and RTV trialing then wha would you go for?

Defenders/ land rovers are way too expensive
Discoverys seem rotten at this price
Jap pick ups have leaf springs and are too long
SJs are ALL rotten to the core it seems?
Foresters are too low.

So I thought go for yank power(well capactiy): http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2013...
leaving a couple of hundred to bastardise the thing.

So internet folks what have I missed/ under estimated?

[s_zigmond]

Lada Niva

[300bhp/ton]

backgammon said:

Bit quiet in this section so let's go hypothetical

if you had just a grand to spend on an off roader for general driving, laning, mucking about and RTV trialing then wha would you go for?

Defenders/ land rovers are way too expensive
Discoverys seem rotten at this price
Jap pick ups have leaf springs and are too long
SJs are ALL rotten to the core it seems?
Foresters are too low.

So I thought go for yank power(well capactiy): http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2013...
leaving a couple of hundred to bastardise the thing.

So internet folks what have I missed/ under estimated?

I think you need to be a little more specific on what you actually want from it and why. And what specific use, terrain and expectations you have.

In addition, while £1000 is a fair chunk of money, it's not the biggest budget. And many off roaders will need a few bits, such as tyres or maybe a lift kit, in order to make them properly usable off road.

But back to my initial point, laning, pay and play and RTV trials are all rather different. So different vehicles will work better depending on your most intended use.

For trialling you generally want a small compact vehicle with a good turning circle and capable suspension. Sure you can run a bigger vehicle and some clubs will have classes to cater for this, but often you may still end up competing against vehicles with massive competitive advantages.

On this note, who would you intend to trail with? As far as I know the two main organisations that run such events are the ALRC, which is Land Rovers only and the AWDC, which allow anything.

However if you are laning, then you may want a vehicle with more or better seating capacity, a bigger boot, better road manners (to get to the lanes in the first place) and simply more comfort.

While pay & play sites tend to be more brutal and more about breaking stuff.


Personally if I was looking at a budget off road to really use off road I'd be looking at these:

-Land Rover Series

Why? Because they are still very capable off road. They are compact, but have a good boot, or can seat quite a few. Very cheap and easy to maintain and can be had in budget. Lots of upgrade options.

Negatives would be old and will feel it to drive. Slow and poor road manners compared to modern vehicles. Petrol ones very bad on fuel, diesel ones very noisy.

Could be used for anything, although a compromise at some things. I'd opt for ALRC trials with such a vehicle.


-Land Rover Discovery

Why? Because all the things the Series doesn't do very well, the Discovery does do well at. Diesel ones are fairly frugal, parts are still cheap and they are very easy to maintain. And I'm sure you can still buy reasonable ones.

Negatives would be, they are bigger and heavier than a Series. So while you can trail them, you will always be at a disadvantage.


-Jeep Cherokee (XJ)

Why? Great VFM and can do all the things a Discovery can but are a bit more compact. The 4.0 is pretty fast too. Just a highly capable vehicle all round. And ultimately probably the best bang per buck 4x4 on offer.

Negatives would be, not quite as roomy as a Discovery. And despite being more compact, are still longer and larger than a Series Land Rover and other more compact vehicles for trails events. You'll also need a 2" lift on one of these to match a Discovery off road (although this is cheap and easy to do)


-Suzuki Jimny

Why? Because it's like a modern Land Rover Series 1, but with Defender suspension, better built and doesn't leak. Highly capable off road and for trials events.

Negatives would be, worse road manners over the bigger vehicles and lack of room for touring/laning. Size can be an advantage, but too small can be less stable on extreme pay and play terrain. Might struggle to find one in budget.


-Suzuki Vitara SWB/SJ

Why? Well ok, two different vehicles here. But both are likely cheaper and easier to find than a Jimny for this money. SJ is hugely capable, but rather akin to a Series Land Rover. And hugely compromised on road. Vitara will be better than a Jimny at some things, but the IFS is likely to cause issues under certain off road situations, so RTV trials this would likely be a lesser choice.

Negatives would be same as the Jimny. They are small. SJ is old and rusts a lot. Vitara plays second fiddle to Jiny off road.


-Lada Niva

Why? Well it's a bit different and can be about the cheapest 4x4 on sale at times. And despite IFS is more capable off road than you'd imagine. It's small and compact and would be a good alternative to the other SWB options.

Negatives would be finding one, rust and being oddball means some parts and future upgrades are more likely difficult to get in the UK.


-Jeep Grand Cherokee

Why? All the same reasons as the regular Cherokee, only this one is even more comfier and has V8 engine options. Would be good for laning, or even an extreme pay & play vehicle.

Negatives would be, less suited to trials as it is bigger, although arguably no worse than a Disco or RRC. Might struggle to find one in price.


-old Toyota HiLux

Why? With live axles front & rear they are very tough and very capable off road. Although length means trailling may not be their strongest suit.

Negatives would be ride, age, road performance and finding one in budget.



There are lots of other 4x4's in price, such as Troopers, Shoguns, Mavericks, Terrano's and so on. All could be used for certain things, but all are likely a compromise and ultimately less capable than the offerings above. And lets face it, if you off road properly, you will likely break stuff and want to 'improve' certain aspects of a vehicle. So owning a vehicle with easy and cheap parts supply's AND a good modification market is only going to be a bonus moving forward.

[backgammon]

Thanks for the detailed reply 300bhp.
In my post I put a link to a grand cherokee 4.0 as they do seem good and well within the budget - which remember is hypothetical - being a dreamer is fine if you're open about it in my little internet rule book.

You make good points about trails favouring the SWB narrow, great appr. dep. brk-over angles, traditional 4X4. I'd love something like this. And I agree the Niva must be a great motor due to its articulation, diff locks and lack of ovehangs - i bet they are alot more car like than a Series3 as well.

But looking through the mags a few weeks ago it seemed pretty much impossable to find a Series 3 with tax, test and and a solid bulkhead, chassis and engine for a 1000 quid. And truelly difficult to find a reasonable Niva advertised for sale at all- though I was pleased to see you can get a new one.


So if you can't get a Series 3 or Niva etc. then what I've decided I would like to do is just go for power(Jeep): rather than a halfway house of a ratty diesel SWB Shogun or trooper.
The £1000 pounds is low but that means more to spend on modifications + tyres.

Good point RE Jimny in my head they're still new forgot the nineties are a while ago

[300bhp/ton]

I'll be honest, I might be out of touch with Series prices. Although I'd have thought £1500 should get you something.

Re: Jeeps. I had a XJ Cherokee 4.0 litre and loved it. ok on fuel, well better than a V8 Range Rover pretty speedy and handled well.

I got mine for not a lot of money and I fitted a 2" budget boost lift kit (spacers at the front, longer shackles at the rear). I got the kit unused, off ebay for about £80 and fitted it myself. And I acquired a set of used 31.10.50 mud terrains from my uncle. I also bought a pair of front wheel spacers to stop the front tyres rubbing when on lock, as I used the stock rims (aftermarket would have been better).

All in all it was a great budget 4x4. Drove very well, had central locking, electric windows, seats, mirrors and so on. Even had air con (although think it needed gassing).

It was capable enough off road to set up RTV trials for the Land Rover club.










I'd certainly have another. Although I am heavily involved in the local Land Rover club, so it makes more sense for me to stick with Landys.

[jay140285]

I can vouch for 300's Jeep.

Although it now has a bigger lift, 31 10.5 15 Insana Turbo on black Modulars.

Still an awesome 4x4 for the money.

Goes places more expensive stuff does.

Comfy for laning and on the road.

Average mpg isn't bad either.

[schmalex]

300bhp/ton said:

Personally if I was looking at a budget off road to really use off road I'd be looking at these:

-Land Rover Series

Why? Because they are still very capable off road. They are compact, but have a good boot, or can seat quite a few. Very cheap and easy to maintain and can be had in budget. Lots of upgrade options.

Negatives would be old and will feel it to drive. Slow and poor road manners compared to modern vehicles. Petrol ones very bad on fuel, diesel ones very noisy.

Could be used for anything, although a compromise at some things. I'd opt for ALRC trials with such a vehicle.

I bought a SWB 2.25 petrol Series 3 for £1k about 4 years ago.

Aside from making sure all the oily bits work properly, upgrading the springs to parabolics and fitting a good set of Insa Sahara tyres to it, it is pretty much standard.

I take it to pay and play sites fairly often and there is virtually nothing that a bobtailed Rangy or massively modified Disco will go up that phases the little Series. Sure, there isn't as much noise, tyre spinning or mud flying about the place, but it happily plods up, down and through stuff that no 30 year old vehicle should have a right to do.

It is a truly marvellous vehicle. In the time I have had it, it has passed every MOT first time and has not once let me down mechanically.

[sunbeam alpine]

300bhp/ton said:

How many times have you posted that photo on here now?

It was a bit cruel of that Landrover to tow you backwards into the mud!

What I really wanted to say is that a Daihatsu Fourtrak is also very cheap and very capable off-road (if you can find one which isn't rusted to fk).

[geeks]

A series Frontera sport for £450, check!
3 inch lift for £30, check!
1 inch body lift for £30, check!
Set of Malatesta Kobra NT MT's off the Bay of E £150 check!
Snorkel for £45 off the Bay of E, check!
CB and Whip kicking around at home FOC, check
New recovery strops and D Shackles £80 all in off the Eay of E, check!
30mm spacers £80, check!

Perfect pay and play toy for £865 leaving a fair chunk for Pay and Play or Laning or whatever! (That left over 135 is £5 short of 7 sundays at my local pay and play!)

Could do with a little more torque on occasion as my LWB Diesel B series climbs better but you can over come the torque issue with revs! Has recovered all the vehicles 300bhp/ton has mentioned and more, has been recovered on ocassion by some of them too.

Ultimately whatever your offroad poison (mine happens to be Frontera's) you are bound to have a blast!