How to Upset the Locals
Discussion
This you tube video is on a byway close to my parents http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kaqg_sfrOAA
As you can see the Byway is in an appalling condition, which has not been helped by the efforts of these guys.
Following an argument between locals and off-roaders the Byway has now been closed to vehicles by East Sussex Council on a temporary basis whilst either they fix it, or they apply for a permanent closure order.
However some offroaders have removed the closed signs and barriers and continued to use the byway. This is of course counter productive as it has intensely annoyed the locals and I suspect is far more likely to lead to a permanent closure.
I guess as usual its a small minority ruining it for the majority, nor whether there is a solution.
As you can see the Byway is in an appalling condition, which has not been helped by the efforts of these guys.
Following an argument between locals and off-roaders the Byway has now been closed to vehicles by East Sussex Council on a temporary basis whilst either they fix it, or they apply for a permanent closure order.
However some offroaders have removed the closed signs and barriers and continued to use the byway. This is of course counter productive as it has intensely annoyed the locals and I suspect is far more likely to lead to a permanent closure.
I guess as usual its a small minority ruining it for the majority, nor whether there is a solution.
There's a long-ish set of byways near us which they closed last year under a TRO for pretty much the same reasons. They've just re-opened them to permit-holders only. I hold a permit (2 wheels & 4 wheels) and I've been up there to have a look - they've smoothed it all out and chucked tonnes of Type 1 down, and whilst this no doubt preserves the trail for the future, it's little more than a slightly rough road now which seems to rather defeat the object. At least we still have (permit) access I guess.
For me that isn't what greenlaning is about, I'm no expert on the legality aspect, but I'd say that was very unfair damaging that track to that extent. A good driver usually leaves as little footprint as possible. Bet the farmer or whoever has to use the track on a daily basis weren't very happy.
25NAD90TUL said:
For me that isn't what greenlaning is about, I'm no expert on the legality aspect, but I'd say that was very unfair damaging that track to that extent. A good driver usually leaves as little footprint as possible. Bet the farmer or whoever has to use the track on a daily basis weren't very happy.
I agree with trying to leave as little footprint as possible but sometimes it's just not possible. I bet the farmer damages the surface far more and wouldn't care about it in any case.Chrisgr31 said:
This you tube video is on a byway close to my parents http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kaqg_sfrOAA
As you can see the Byway is in an appalling condition, which has not been helped by the efforts of these guys.
Following an argument between locals and off-roaders the Byway has now been closed to vehicles by East Sussex Council on a temporary basis whilst either they fix it, or they apply for a permanent closure order.
However some offroaders have removed the closed signs and barriers and continued to use the byway. This is of course counter productive as it has intensely annoyed the locals and I suspect is far more likely to lead to a permanent closure.
I guess as usual its a small minority ruining it for the majority, nor whether there is a solution.
I didn't watch all of the vid, only snippets. But I couldn't really see anything wrong with what they were doing.As you can see the Byway is in an appalling condition, which has not been helped by the efforts of these guys.
Following an argument between locals and off-roaders the Byway has now been closed to vehicles by East Sussex Council on a temporary basis whilst either they fix it, or they apply for a permanent closure order.
However some offroaders have removed the closed signs and barriers and continued to use the byway. This is of course counter productive as it has intensely annoyed the locals and I suspect is far more likely to lead to a permanent closure.
I guess as usual its a small minority ruining it for the majority, nor whether there is a solution.
It's a dirt road for f
ks sake, even riding a horse along it will churn it up. Better it gets used for recreation than shut off and not used at all. Seems more like petty fkwit locals moaning for the sake of being aholes.Well, I wouldn't go that far, but some people do see mud and think it is the most unnatural thing known to man and wave their arms in the air. However, in the UK byways and greenlanes are being closed for this very reason, so off-roaders need to take care. It doesn't help that only 1% of byways are open to vehicles due to closures, so pressure on those lanes will increase.
I bet if walking paths were so limited, they too would be churned up by walkers, horses, and the like. It seems to me to be a formula for total closure. The ridiculous thing is that there is more than enough countryside in the UK for greenlaners, horses, and people. Unfortunately some people seem to be of the impression that the country is only for them, nd everyone else should be stopped.
I bet if walking paths were so limited, they too would be churned up by walkers, horses, and the like. It seems to me to be a formula for total closure. The ridiculous thing is that there is more than enough countryside in the UK for greenlaners, horses, and people. Unfortunately some people seem to be of the impression that the country is only for them, nd everyone else should be stopped.
TheHeretic said:
Well, I wouldn't go that far, but some people do see mud and think it is the most unnatural thing known to man and wave their arms in the air. However, in the UK byways and greenlanes are being closed for this very reason, so off-roaders need to take care. It doesn't help that only 1% of byways are open to vehicles due to closures, so pressure on those lanes will increase.
I bet if walking paths were so limited, they too would be churned up by walkers, horses, and the like. It seems to me to be a formula for total closure. The ridiculous thing is that there is more than enough countryside in the UK for greenlaners, horses, and people. Unfortunately some people seem to be of the impression that the country is only for them, nd everyone else should be stopped.
I think it's even less than 1% that are open to vehicles, isn't itI bet if walking paths were so limited, they too would be churned up by walkers, horses, and the like. It seems to me to be a formula for total closure. The ridiculous thing is that there is more than enough countryside in the UK for greenlaners, horses, and people. Unfortunately some people seem to be of the impression that the country is only for them, nd everyone else should be stopped.
Interestingly, a few near me that have been closed are now so overgrown that the ramblers don't use them any more either!
kooky guy said:
Interestingly, a few near me that have been closed are now so overgrown that the ramblers don't use them any more either!
That's what happens to most they close I suspect. Certainly around here it's like that. So the argument of not being able to walk down them is quite selfish, single minded and somewhat stupid.You may have guessed this kind of thing pisses me off slightly
300bhp/ton said:
That's what happens to most they close I suspect. Certainly around here it's like that. So the argument of not being able to walk down them is quite selfish, single minded and somewhat stupid.
You may have guessed this kind of thing pisses me off slightly
It was the same in NY state when I lived there. Very few parts open to offroaders, despite having more countryside, and national park that God. You may have guessed this kind of thing pisses me off slightly
There was, IIRC, an attempt by the offroading fraternity to get the fire lanes opened up for offroad trails. It would keep vegetation back, and offroading groups would help with clearing them annually, or whatever. This was refused. Why? Opposition from greenery types. Why? f
k knows. 300bhp/ton said:
I didn't watch all of the vid, only snippets. But I couldn't really see anything wrong with what they were doing.
It's a dirt road for fks sake, even riding a horse along it will churn it up. Better it gets used for recreation than shut off and not used at all. Seems more like petty fkwit locals moaning for the sake of being aholes.
Well we will have to see what the outcome is, but I suspect we will see it being closed to vehicles. Whereas had those driving along it waited until it dried out they wouldnt have done the damage to it, and it would have remained open.It's a dirt road for f
ks sake, even riding a horse along it will churn it up. Better it gets used for recreation than shut off and not used at all. Seems more like petty fkwit locals moaning for the sake of being aholes.
Chrisgr31 said:
Well we will have to see what the outcome is, but I suspect we will see it being closed to vehicles. Whereas had those driving along it waited until it dried out they wouldnt have done the damage to it, and it would have remained open.
Sorry but that's a completely dumb stance to take. We live in a temperate climate - it rains a lot and most wooded areas are damp most of the year round else the trees would die and it'd be arid grassland. In terms of square area a rutted track takes up a tiny percentage of the countryside leaving plenty of untamed land for ramblers to trespass on. And it's not as if there is a shortage of footpaths either. Dirt roads are made from dirt. Driving on them will make them muddy, this is normal expected behaviour. Closing them makes them no longer able to function as roads and a road which can't be used as a road is a concept thought up by selfish tosspots.
Edited by 300bhp/ton on Tuesday 11th June 08:59
300bhp/ton said:
Chrisgr31 said:
Well we will have to see what the outcome is, but I suspect we will see it being closed to vehicles. Whereas had those driving along it waited until it dried out they wouldnt have done the damage to it, and it would have remained open.
Sorry but that's a completely dumb stance to take. We live in a temperate climate - it rains a lot and most wooded areas are damp most of the year round else the trees would die and it'd be arid grassland. In terms of square area a rutted track takes up a tiny percentage of the countryside leaving plenty of untamed land for ramblers to trespass on. And it's not as if there is a shortage of footpaths either. Dirt roads are made from dirt. Driving on them will make them muddy, this is normal expected behaviour. Closing them makes them no longer allows them to function as roads and a road which can't be used as a road is a concept thought up by selfish tosspots.
Crossflow Kid said:
Forcing a vehicle along ruts too deep to climb out with full lock on the steering is pretty amateur though, wouldn't you say?
So what is the answer?If you can avoid it, then maybe, although not driving in the ruts means you will likely widen the track and damage more ground. The rule I've always been taught is if there are tracks use them, don't make more.
Also when off roading you sometimes don't mean to "fall" into some deep tracks, but it's happens, especially if it's slippery out. And on this note, you may well enter a lane that isn't rutted and may even be dry, yet come across ruts and deep tracks later on, so it's not as if you can really use foresight to know if there will or won't be any.
I rather suspect that the "antis" will win out in the end and offroading will receive a blanket ban. How far off that is, I don't know.
I spend far more time greenlaning on two wheels than four, and when we ride we ALWAYS ride considerately - if we see walkers, horse riders, dogs, cyclists etc we always slow to walking pace, switch off for horses, etc, and we stick to legal trails. However, the number of walkers who look at you as if you're several levels lower down the chain than, say, those who don't clear up dog st, is immense. You get this nasty sneery distasteful look from them as you slowly edge past. Ref the 1% comment above, there are of course several million more miles of footpath they can use where this won't happen, but oh no, they have the right to use the shared-use trails so they're bloody well going to use them, and then they get pissy when we pass them. People power will close the greenlaning hobby in the end.
I spend far more time greenlaning on two wheels than four, and when we ride we ALWAYS ride considerately - if we see walkers, horse riders, dogs, cyclists etc we always slow to walking pace, switch off for horses, etc, and we stick to legal trails. However, the number of walkers who look at you as if you're several levels lower down the chain than, say, those who don't clear up dog s
t, is immense. You get this nasty sneery distasteful look from them as you slowly edge past. Ref the 1% comment above, there are of course several million more miles of footpath they can use where this won't happen, but oh no, they have the right to use the shared-use trails so they're bloody well going to use them, and then they get pissy when we pass them. People power will close the greenlaning hobby in the end.Edited by CAPP0 on Tuesday 11th June 09:32
Not being a greenlaner or even owning a 4x4 the comments on this thread are quite illuminating to me. I am hardly ever on the side of nimby's or anti-car people but I am in this case. You can see the mess the vehicles have made of that track, it is hardly now appropriate for pushing a pram, cycling with kids or a number of things it could/should be used for. If you people want to carry on with your hobby then don't take the piss as it only upsets people. Who wants to walk down a track with huge muddy ruts in it? I can completely see why the locals get upset and it looks like they will eventually win out if you don't change your ways. It would be a shame to lose the chance to drive down these lanes wouldn't it?
So you are not illuminated to the fact that only 1% of byways in the UK are open to vehicles, and yet the site of some mud and ruts makes you want what, exactly? Closed?
There are idiots out there, be they off roaders, walkers, horsy types, and so on. However there seems to be this utterly selfish reaction whereby closing stuff is the only solution. Walkers can walk wherever they want. I suggest you try taking prams down many, many byways that are only open to walkers. Who wants to walk down a rutted trail? The same people who want to walk down a bridle way broken up by horses, or a countryside path that has been eroded by walkers?
Mud is not unnatural. Trails have existed since time immemorial, and yet people seem to associate a muddy trail with raping and pillaging for some reason. All very bizarre. Maybe if the vast majority of routes hadn't been closed, then you would not be concentrating so much traffic down what is left? Just a thought. Consider it a bottleneck.
There are idiots out there, be they off roaders, walkers, horsy types, and so on. However there seems to be this utterly selfish reaction whereby closing stuff is the only solution. Walkers can walk wherever they want. I suggest you try taking prams down many, many byways that are only open to walkers. Who wants to walk down a rutted trail? The same people who want to walk down a bridle way broken up by horses, or a countryside path that has been eroded by walkers?
Mud is not unnatural. Trails have existed since time immemorial, and yet people seem to associate a muddy trail with raping and pillaging for some reason. All very bizarre. Maybe if the vast majority of routes hadn't been closed, then you would not be concentrating so much traffic down what is left? Just a thought. Consider it a bottleneck.
cb31 said:
You can see the mess the vehicles have made of that track, it is hardly now appropriate for pushing a pram,
I hate to break it to you but, it's a track, through a forest. Not really appropriate for using a pram no matter what. Or are you confusing the proper countryside with with one of those naff family fun country park places where everything is marked out with nicely drained compacted gravel tracks and decking walkways?
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