Defender recovery points question

[Ayahuasca]

My 2008 Defender has a Dixon Bate tow hitch with jaws / pin at the rear on a NAS rear tow step, which I believe is strong enough to act as a rear recovery point. BUT on the front all I have are the tie-down eyes which are not strong enough. I bought some JATE rings but they do not fit because of the winch bumper assembly that bolts onto the chassis and makes it too thick for the rings.

My question is, is the standard Defender front bumper strong enough to use as a recovery point if I attach suitable kit to it i.e. the Dixon Bate 3.5 ton pins that I believe the Camel Trophy cars used? Looking at pics of the CT defenders, the front bumper seems to be standard?

Of can I simply drill lateral holes in the winch supports (big steel things as mentioned bolted to the chassis as well as the bumper) and hang a bow shackle from them?

Having seen a few vids of kinetic strap ripping off bits of metal on the fkwittery thread I want to make sure my recovery points are rock solid!

Cheers.

[Ayahuasca]

Ayahuasca said:

My 2008 Defender has a Dixon Bate tow hitch with jaws / pin at the rear on a NAS rear tow step, which I believe is strong enough to act as a rear recovery point. BUT on the front all I have are the tie-down eyes which are not strong enough. I bought some JATE rings but they do not fit because of the winch bumper assembly that bolts onto the chassis and makes it too thick for the rings.

My question is, is the standard Defender front bumper strong enough to use as a recovery point if I attach suitable kit to it i.e. the Dixon Bate 3.5 ton pins that I believe the Camel Trophy cars used? Looking at pics of the CT defenders, the front bumper seems to be standard?

Of can I simply drill lateral holes in the winch supports (big steel things as mentioned bolted to the chassis as well as the bumper) and hang a bow shackle from them?

Having seen a few vids of kinetic strap ripping off bits of metal on the fkwittery thread I want to make sure my recovery points are rock solid!

Cheers.

[anonymous-user]

How stuck are you planning on getting?

[camel_landy]

The metal used on the winch bumper should be man enough to take the recovery points.

The CT cars had 2x 3.5t Dixon Bate jaws. When mounted, there is a spreader plate mounted inside the bumper to evenly spread the load (much like what you should have on the rear with the 5t jaw.

The other advantage of having these pins on the front is then you can run a pulley block to double the pull on the winch.

M

[Caulkhead]

I've stuck and recovered a lot of Land Rovers. I've managed to pull off a NAS rear tow step and bend two rear cross members, I've also pulled the spreader plate straight through a front bumper.

I now only use two jate rings front and rear and carry a short length of strop which I thread through both jates and shackle the open end into a 'V' spreading the recovery load equally down both chassis rails. The only difficulty can be getting to the jates on a bogged vehicle but it's still the best way IMHO.

[anonymous-user]

JATE rings seem to have an erratic reputation in Land Rover circles, but being intended for airlifting they are rated to around four times the vehicle's weight. Granted that's lifting vertically, but bearing in mind the rings swivel they should cope IMHO. Having seen a submerged WMIK lifted from a fast flowing river in Helmand by just one of its JATE rings I know what I'll use on my meddling civvy wagon.
(As said tho', they can be a tt to get to some times)

[randomeddy]

Do you have a standard front bumper or a winch bumper?
The standard bumpers are far too thin for any serious recovery.

[300bhp/ton]

Crossflow Kid said:

How stuck are you planning on getting?

er who ever plans to get stuck? It just happens or things break, also unplanned.

[300bhp/ton]

Op you need to have very good recovery points as a failure can be very hazardous with tremendous forces involved.

The standard bumper is not really strong enough, although if you add a large spreader plate behind it and don't have a recovery point in the middle it should be ok.

You'll need to use high tensile bolts for the bumper to vehicle and recovery point to bumper.

Jate rings are good and you can fit them front and rear. And are great if you need additional ropes to pull the vehicle at an angle or to keep it right side down.

D rings (can be made to fit a 90)



Heavy duty mil spec front bumper with recovery pin


JATE rings




These hooks are good and you can bolt them to the chassis


Other options:

[eltax91]

300bhp/ton said:

D rings (can be made to fit a 90)

These are what came attached to my 90's winch bumper when I got it. Never failed during a recovery, or even moved at all. They also allow you to attached the end of the winch rope to them for a double pull using a snatch block on the "other" vehicle.

When retrieving the wife's audi off the drive last winter (winch broke, they always are), I threaded a proper strap through the two "eyes" and made them into a triangle in front of the vehicle. I attached this triangle to the wife tow hitch using a shackle and it gave me great control over pulling the car. I needed this as she was pregnant at the time so I didn't want her doing anything other than steering/ brakes etc, so wanted as much control as possible.

[anonymous-user]

300bhp/ton said:

Crossflow Kid said:

How stuck are you planning on getting?

er who ever plans to get stuck? It just happens or things break, also unplanned.

How stuck as in, are you taking the vehicle axle-deep in mud, up to its windscreen in floodwater, nothing more than some gravel tracks round Salisbury Plain? That sort of thing, as it'll affect the nature of any recovery, from a simple tow to challenge-style winching.
Course the real answer is just to do a 2" body lift, right?

Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 5th December 02:23

[300bhp/ton]

Crossflow Kid said:

300bhp/ton said:

Crossflow Kid said:

How stuck are you planning on getting?

er who ever plans to get stuck? It just happens or things break, also unplanned.

How stuck as in, are you taking the vehicle axle-deep in mud, up to its windscreen in floodwater, nothing more than some gravel tracks round Salisbury Plain? That sort of thing, as it'll affect the nature of any recovery, from a simple tow to challenge-style winching.
Course the real answer is just to do a 2" body lift, right?

Edited by Crossflow Kid on Wednesday 5th December 02:23

No but I have seen a front CV fail on a grassy hill totally locking the wheel. The only options where to strip it down there and then (unsafe due to the steepness of the slope) or to drag it out with a winch. Lots of stress then placed on the recovery points.

[Ayahuasca]

Crossflow Kid said:

300bhp/ton said:

Crossflow Kid said:

How stuck are you planning on getting?

er who ever plans to get stuck? It just happens or things break, also unplanned.

How stuck as in, are you taking the vehicle axle-deep in mud, up to its windscreen in floodwater, nothing more than some gravel tracks round Salisbury Plain? That sort of thing, as it'll affect the nature of any recovery, from a simple tow to challenge-style winching.
Course the real answer is just to do a 2" body lift, right?

Edited by Crossflow Kid on Wednesday 5th December 02:23

Possibly axle-deep mud and windscreen-deep rivers. I have a 2 inch lift already plus a Warn 9,500lb winch, a hi-lift jack, snorkel, mud-terrain tyres, etc but my recovery points are a bit lacking.

[mikeh501]

Ayahuasca said:

Possibly axle-deep mud and windscreen-deep rivers. I have a 2 inch lift already plus a Warn 9,500lb winch, a hi-lift jack, snorkel, mud-terrain tyres, etc but my recovery points are a bit lacking.

Nice. You need the whole hog then really

Stick one of those on the front (other brands/types available). These are far better than jate rings just because you don't need to get under the vehicle to attach and you can use them to attach your winch via winch block. I paid about 200 for mine plus the recovery eyes.

http://www.extreme4x4.co.uk/acatalog/info_fbumpert...

My favourite on the back is one of these. Use for recovery and also slide out the d shackle and replace with the drop plate for towing. I paid about 120 for it from safari equipe.

http://www.extreme4x4.co.uk/acatalog/DEFENDER_QUIC...

[harrisp]

300bhp/ton said:

Op you need to have very good recovery points as a failure can be very hazardous with tremendous forces involved.

The standard bumper is not really strong enough, although if you add a large spreader plate behind it and don't have a recovery point in the middle it should be ok.

You'll need to use high tensile bolts for the bumper to vehicle and recovery point to bumper.

Jate rings are good and you can fit them front and rear. And are great if you need additional ropes to pull the vehicle at an angle or to keep it right side down.

D rings (can be made to fit a 90)







These hooks are good and you can bolt them to the chassis

Those rings are no good for recovery, maybe a gentle tow on a grassy field but a proper recovery no chance.

This hooks are also crap for recovery.

[100SRV]

harrisp said:

Those rings are no good for recovery, maybe a gentle tow on a grassy field but a proper recovery no chance.

This hooks are also crap for recovery.

What are you basing the above assertions on?

I have used both types for recovery without any problems. The good thing about the hooks is no need to use shackles (projectiles in waiting) to attach the ropes.

There is an excellent technical piece on Pirate 4x4 regarding recovery forces:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/Recovery/

If you have got the vehicle seriously stuck it might be a better bet to jack it, secure it and remove the pieces of the planet from underneath first - in front of axle(s) and so on.

[harrisp]

I've seen those rings bend when not beeing pulled dead straight.
I've been stuck axle deep in mud with water over the bonnet, at times like those you on want to be relying on a crap recovery point, and there is no chance of digging mud from underneath.