Bit of a 'What 4x4' question..
Discussion
Having dispensed with the Jeep Cherokee (4.0 lpg), I've had 6 months in a diesel saloon.
All very nice and all that but I have a boat and no kids and to be honest I miss being able to drive the Jeep onto the beach at the sailing club, to collect a dinghy full of gear.
Not to mention, being able to take the yacht boom home on the roof, at the end of the year.
Jeep wasn't great on fuel around town but the club is about 25 miles away and the difference (LPG versus Diesel) isn't as great as I'd have expected.
So I don't need huge articulation for rocks and boulders but I do need something that can take sand / shingle / mud (to reasonable depth) so I'm not likely to be stranded when the tide comes in.
Also not absolutely dreadful MPG on a run would be good, since I do fairly frequent 50mile round trips to the club.
Any thoughts? Are the likes of early 2000's RAV4's too 'soft' to tackle the beach?
I thought perhaps a Toyota (Hilux) Surf 3.0 Diesel. I like my cars to be a bit left-field and they do look quite funky.
Anyway, no need to loose too much sleep over it but any thoughts would be appreciated.
All very nice and all that but I have a boat and no kids and to be honest I miss being able to drive the Jeep onto the beach at the sailing club, to collect a dinghy full of gear.
Not to mention, being able to take the yacht boom home on the roof, at the end of the year.
Jeep wasn't great on fuel around town but the club is about 25 miles away and the difference (LPG versus Diesel) isn't as great as I'd have expected.
So I don't need huge articulation for rocks and boulders but I do need something that can take sand / shingle / mud (to reasonable depth) so I'm not likely to be stranded when the tide comes in.
Also not absolutely dreadful MPG on a run would be good, since I do fairly frequent 50mile round trips to the club.
Any thoughts? Are the likes of early 2000's RAV4's too 'soft' to tackle the beach?
I thought perhaps a Toyota (Hilux) Surf 3.0 Diesel. I like my cars to be a bit left-field and they do look quite funky.
Anyway, no need to loose too much sleep over it but any thoughts would be appreciated.
x-trail will do the job. I get 40mpg out of mine when in 2WD and it's comfortable and has been very reliable. They're ok off-road - I was in MR so mine saw quite a few muddy forest tracks - as they have three transmission modes 2WD, Auto, and locked CD. I never got stuck during winter SAR call-outs and some of the snow conditions were terrible.
Fire99 said:
Why have you called yours a 'boredom'? 
I have considered one of those but read some less than lovely reports on the early diesels (Honest John website)
Because they are boring to drive. But they do work well as an all rounder. Handle enough like a car to be able to make progress and good enough off-road to not require a Landy. Ours has been faultless other than a clutch at 100k and wear and tear items.I have considered one of those but read some less than lovely reports on the early diesels (Honest John website)
As far as I know the issues with them - both the 2.0 and the 2.2 - were Intercooler failures and Turbo failures both at low miles. Ours (2.2dci) had the IC done when I bought it SH, but it turned out to be an injector seal. I'd read the same horror stories too and so was concious of IC leaks and rough sounding turbos, which was why I made the garage swap the IC as part of the deal.
Those that did fail were replaced by a better more robust design AFAIK. My BIL has the 2.0 model which is a more agricultural sounding engine but again he has had no problems with it. I think it's like most modern cars that sell by the bucket load, you will get a high number of failures but that number is actually a small percentage of total sold.
Fiat Sedici is competent on road (given what it is), does 40mpg in diesel guise, and has the ground clearance of a Freelander, roughly. All the AWD bits are made by Suzuki who make an identical model, although they don't do a diesel version I don't think. Being an unloved, niche Fiat I expect they are cheap.
Braked towing weight is 1200kg - no idea if that is enough?
Braked towing weight is 1200kg - no idea if that is enough?
Thanks guys.. Fiat, definitely not. It looks hateful. My Jeep was at least quirky and fun in its own way.
Nissan, is possible but would probably make more sense if I had kids. A bit too sensible. As I say, I like things a bit left field.
If the budget was greater, I'd go with a Jeep Patriot but too much for this project.
The 'Surf' is still the top contender. Has its own charm.
Nissan, is possible but would probably make more sense if I had kids. A bit too sensible. As I say, I like things a bit left field.
If the budget was greater, I'd go with a Jeep Patriot but too much for this project.
The 'Surf' is still the top contender. Has its own charm.
We were going to p/x ours against a Wrangler but Jeep only offered us £5k (57reg diesel with 35000 miles) 
So we're holding onto it, we were only thinking of upgrading as the Wrangler was such a good price and we thought we'd only need to add £2k to the deal, but the low value of our vehicle was a bit of a shock as we were expecting around £7k looking at the used car market and what Jeep are selling them for
It's nowhere near as offroad ready as the wrangler (although there's a fair bit out there to improve it), but it's capable Plus it gets 45mpg easily so it's hard to moan about really!
So we're holding onto it, we were only thinking of upgrading as the Wrangler was such a good price and we thought we'd only need to add £2k to the deal, but the low value of our vehicle was a bit of a shock as we were expecting around £7k looking at the used car market and what Jeep are selling them for
It's nowhere near as offroad ready as the wrangler (although there's a fair bit out there to improve it), but it's capable
Plus it gets 45mpg easily so it's hard to moan about really! Fire99 said:
Any thoughts? Are the likes of early 2000's RAV4's too 'soft' to tackle the beach?
I thought perhaps a Toyota (Hilux) Surf 3.0 Diesel. I like my cars to be a bit left-field and they do look quite funky.
.I thought perhaps a Toyota (Hilux) Surf 3.0 Diesel. I like my cars to be a bit left-field and they do look quite funky.
The Rav is OK'ish
The Surf is miles better.
You can bog a Rav, and break it.
The Surf will take some punishment, and is a fair decent size inside.
No need even think about the earlier 2,4L diesel Surfs, forget they were ever made.
You should only be looking at the 3rd generation, which were from about 1996 "M" reg onwards.
Much better in my opinion than the Rav for what your wanting it for.
vette
vette
Happy82 said:
We were going to p/x ours against a Wrangler but Jeep only offered us £5k (57reg diesel with 35000 miles)
So we're holding onto it, we were only thinking of upgrading as the Wrangler was such a good price and we thought we'd only need to add £2k to the deal, but the low value of our vehicle was a bit of a shock as we were expecting around £7k looking at the used car market and what Jeep are selling them for
It's nowhere near as offroad ready as the wrangler (although there's a fair bit out there to improve it), but it's capable Plus it gets 45mpg easily so it's hard to moan about really!
I do like the Wrangler. Some of the recent ones are slightly eye wateringly expensive but there's something honest about them. So we're holding onto it, we were only thinking of upgrading as the Wrangler was such a good price and we thought we'd only need to add £2k to the deal, but the low value of our vehicle was a bit of a shock as we were expecting around £7k looking at the used car market and what Jeep are selling them for
It's nowhere near as offroad ready as the wrangler (although there's a fair bit out there to improve it), but it's capable
Plus it gets 45mpg easily so it's hard to moan about really! I don't think anyone can grumble about the Patriot being slightly less 'off-roadery' when they'll push 45mpg. Probably more capable than what most people would ask of 'em.
uk_vette said:
No need even think about the earlier 2,4L diesel Surfs, forget they were ever made.
You should only be looking at the 3rd generation, which were from about 1996 "M" reg onwards.
I've not even blinked at the 2.4's , now 3.0's are now down at similar money.You should only be looking at the 3rd generation, which were from about 1996 "M" reg onwards.
No doubt the 3rd generation is the better buy but dare I say, I think the earlier 2nd looks better. (outside anyway)
Another swerve ball is the Isuzu Trooper Citation 3.0td 3dr. They seem a lot of 'bus' for their money.
Fire99 said:
uk_vette said:
No need even think about the earlier 2,4L diesel Surfs, forget they were ever made.
You should only be looking at the 3rd generation, which were from about 1996 "M" reg onwards.
I've not even blinked at the 2.4's , now 3.0's are now down at similar money.You should only be looking at the 3rd generation, which were from about 1996 "M" reg onwards.
No doubt the 3rd generation is the better buy but dare I say, I think the earlier 2nd looks better. (outside anyway)
Another swerve ball is the Isuzu Trooper Citation 3.0td 3dr. They seem a lot of 'bus' for their money.
Let it keep on swerving, do not get in the way, just let it keep on going.
Honestly, the 3rd gen 3.0L Surfs are pretty damn good fro the money.
There are a few things you should do though, when checking them over before parting with the wedge.
Perhaps you know about possible auto box radiator, that runs through the main engine radiator, and how the oil pipes have been know to fracture, and the high pressure from the engine cooling water, has made it's way into the auto box.
Apart from that, they are pretty bomb proof.
vette
uk_vette said:
.
Perhaps you know about possible auto box radiator, that runs through the main engine radiator, and how the oil pipes have been know to fracture, and the high pressure from the engine cooling water, has made it's way into the auto box.
To be honest, nope I didn't know that. Cheers for that. Definitely worth a good check when buying. I'm going to have to take a nose at a 3rd gen and see what they're like.Perhaps you know about possible auto box radiator, that runs through the main engine radiator, and how the oil pipes have been know to fracture, and the high pressure from the engine cooling water, has made it's way into the auto box.
Fire99 said:
Having dispensed with the Jeep Cherokee (4.0 lpg), I've had 6 months in a diesel saloon.
All very nice and all that but I have a boat and no kids and to be honest I miss being able to drive the Jeep onto the beach at the sailing club, to collect a dinghy full of gear.
Not to mention, being able to take the yacht boom home on the roof, at the end of the year.
Jeep wasn't great on fuel around town but the club is about 25 miles away and the difference (LPG versus Diesel) isn't as great as I'd have expected.
So I don't need huge articulation for rocks and boulders but I do need something that can take sand / shingle / mud (to reasonable depth) so I'm not likely to be stranded when the tide comes in.
Also not absolutely dreadful MPG on a run would be good, since I do fairly frequent 50mile round trips to the club.
Any thoughts? Are the likes of early 2000's RAV4's too 'soft' to tackle the beach?
I thought perhaps a Toyota (Hilux) Surf 3.0 Diesel. I like my cars to be a bit left-field and they do look quite funky.
Anyway, no need to loose too much sleep over it but any thoughts would be appreciated.
I guess it comes down to how much of a 4x4 you want it to feel and be.All very nice and all that but I have a boat and no kids and to be honest I miss being able to drive the Jeep onto the beach at the sailing club, to collect a dinghy full of gear.
Not to mention, being able to take the yacht boom home on the roof, at the end of the year.
Jeep wasn't great on fuel around town but the club is about 25 miles away and the difference (LPG versus Diesel) isn't as great as I'd have expected.
So I don't need huge articulation for rocks and boulders but I do need something that can take sand / shingle / mud (to reasonable depth) so I'm not likely to be stranded when the tide comes in.
Also not absolutely dreadful MPG on a run would be good, since I do fairly frequent 50mile round trips to the club.
Any thoughts? Are the likes of early 2000's RAV4's too 'soft' to tackle the beach?
I thought perhaps a Toyota (Hilux) Surf 3.0 Diesel. I like my cars to be a bit left-field and they do look quite funky.
Anyway, no need to loose too much sleep over it but any thoughts would be appreciated.
Most proper 4x4's will struggle to top 30mpg in reality, even the diesel ones.
The soft roaders will be more economical and arguably more car like to drive. But I find as a rule they then don't feel like a 4x4 and end up in a bit of a nomans land.
I quite like early MK1 Rav 4's but I think they are petrol. Not really a 4x4, more an AWD hatch/estate with extended ground clearance, although they do have a locking centre diff. The MK2 Rav 4's use a viscous centre diff a bit like a classic Range Rover.
I like these. Although I think a TCS equipped Freelander would make a better tool on the sand. The TCS will allow the Freelander to spin all 4 wheels, where almost all other 4x4's will only spin two at a time due to using open diffs.
The L-Series or Td4 Freelanders are ok on fuel too.
The Ford Maverick/Nissan Terrano are quite a nice rugged 4x4. Not Land Rover ability off road, but ladder chassis and a live rear axle. They'll feel more 4x4 on the road too.
300bhp/ton said:
I guess it comes down to how much of a 4x4 you want it to feel and be.
Most proper 4x4's will struggle to top 30mpg in reality, even the diesel ones.
The soft roaders will be more economical and arguably more car like to drive. But I find as a rule they then don't feel like a 4x4 and end up in a bit of a nomans land.
I quite like early MK1 Rav 4's but I think they are petrol. Not really a 4x4, more an AWD hatch/estate with extended ground clearance, although they do have a locking centre diff. The MK2 Rav 4's use a viscous centre diff a bit like a classic Range Rover.
I like these. Although I think a TCS equipped Freelander would make a better tool on the sand. The TCS will allow the Freelander to spin all 4 wheels, where almost all other 4x4's will only spin two at a time due to using open diffs.
The L-Series or Td4 Freelanders are ok on fuel too.
The Ford Maverick/Nissan Terrano are quite a nice rugged 4x4. Not Land Rover ability off road, but ladder chassis and a live rear axle. They'll feel more 4x4 on the road too.
Fair point about the mpg. I think 30ish is about all I'd dare to expect.Most proper 4x4's will struggle to top 30mpg in reality, even the diesel ones.
The soft roaders will be more economical and arguably more car like to drive. But I find as a rule they then don't feel like a 4x4 and end up in a bit of a nomans land.
I quite like early MK1 Rav 4's but I think they are petrol. Not really a 4x4, more an AWD hatch/estate with extended ground clearance, although they do have a locking centre diff. The MK2 Rav 4's use a viscous centre diff a bit like a classic Range Rover.
I like these. Although I think a TCS equipped Freelander would make a better tool on the sand. The TCS will allow the Freelander to spin all 4 wheels, where almost all other 4x4's will only spin two at a time due to using open diffs.
The L-Series or Td4 Freelanders are ok on fuel too.
The Ford Maverick/Nissan Terrano are quite a nice rugged 4x4. Not Land Rover ability off road, but ladder chassis and a live rear axle. They'll feel more 4x4 on the road too.
Difficult one really. The reality is needing 'beach ability'. It really is handy for me to be able to drive the thing onto the beach, at low tide, so that'll be a mix of 6 inches or so of shingle, then sand and then wet mud. (Not ridiculously deep, maybe 6 inches or so.)
So I'm not planning on going over the rockies or anything but it needs to be fairly rugged.
I'm sure a Freelander would do the job but having had two in the extended family at one time or another, they've not been a pillar of reliability.
If they worked more reliably, I'd go with a Freelander.
I don't mind the RAV, even in petrol form but I'm concerned that I'd be sitting on the beach watching the tide coming in and being stuck! Maybe I'm wrong.
Fire99 said:
I'm sure a Freelander would do the job but having had two in the extended family at one time or another, they've not been a pillar of reliability.
Shame to hear that. My Mum's on her 2nd. I really like them.Fire99 said:
I don't mind the RAV, even in petrol form but I'm concerned that I'd be sitting on the beach watching the tide coming in and being stuck! Maybe I'm wrong.
The Rav is 4wd, but it has no traction aids and no low range. The centre diff will help hugely if it's slippery (and some AT tyres). But it is more road biased.I reckon it'd do the job, but it just isn't as capable as a proper 4x4.
The Freelander sort of cheats in this respect. Non TCS ones would be no better than an X-Trail. But the TCS really does transform their off road ability. I don't know of any/many other 4x4's that offer traction aids in price. Some Jap 4x4's sometimes have a read LSD or a locker, but it's no so common. These would work quite well IMO.
How slippery does it get on the shingle and sand? If it's quite a grippy area then a Rav should be more than fine.
300bhp/ton said:
The Rav is 4wd, but it has no traction aids and no low range. The centre diff will help hugely if it's slippery (and some AT tyres). But it is more road biased.
I reckon it'd do the job, but it just isn't as capable as a proper 4x4.
The Freelander sort of cheats in this respect. Non TCS ones would be no better than an X-Trail. But the TCS really does transform their off road ability. I don't know of any/many other 4x4's that offer traction aids in price. Some Jap 4x4's sometimes have a read LSD or a locker, but it's no so common. These would work quite well IMO.
How slippery does it get on the shingle and sand? If it's quite a grippy area then a Rav should be more than fine.
As a matter of interest, which Freelanders have TCS? I do have a soft spot for 'em.I reckon it'd do the job, but it just isn't as capable as a proper 4x4.
The Freelander sort of cheats in this respect. Non TCS ones would be no better than an X-Trail. But the TCS really does transform their off road ability. I don't know of any/many other 4x4's that offer traction aids in price. Some Jap 4x4's sometimes have a read LSD or a locker, but it's no so common. These would work quite well IMO.
How slippery does it get on the shingle and sand? If it's quite a grippy area then a Rav should be more than fine.
I wouldn't say it gets desperately slippy but at the top of the beach it's around 45 degree angle on the shingle. I'm probably being unnecessarily concerned since my brother used to tow a speedboat with a 1.3 Fiesta but I miss how confidence inspiring my Jeep used to be. It used to treat the beach (and most other things) like it wasn't there.
Fire99 said:
As a matter of interest, which Freelanders have TCS? I do have a soft spot for 'em.
It was optional on early models. Most non basic spec ones have it. Td4 onwards and I think they all pretty much have it as it became standard equipment for most/all models.Fire99 said:
I wouldn't say it gets desperately slippy but at the top of the beach it's around 45 degree angle on the shingle. I'm probably being unnecessarily concerned since my brother used to tow a speedboat with a 1.3 Fiesta but I miss how confidence inspiring my Jeep used to be. It used to treat the beach (and most other things) like it wasn't there.
The newer shape Jeep Cherokee (also called Liberty) is a pretty nice rugged 4x4. Diesel ones aren't too bad on fuel either.300bhp/ton said:
The newer shape Jeep Cherokee (also called Liberty) is a pretty nice rugged 4x4. Diesel ones aren't too bad on fuel either.
I quite like them too, though I prefer the older (and newer) squarer looks.Maybe a Freelander or another Jeep. Only negative about the Jeep was I seemed to end up getting parts from the likes of RockAuto as availability over here wasn't amazing.
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