Lockers v LSD

[Lefty]

For driving in deep snow, which would work better and why?

I would have thought that the arb-type lockers would be better because they will always give drive to at least one wheel per axle whilst an LSD could still lose drive if one wheel has no grip at all? Was speaking to a local who has two LSD's in his 90 and hd reckons they're far better than "normal" lockers.

[Turn7]

ARB's will lock the axle solid and give drive to both wheels on that axle.

[powerstroke]

Lefty said:

For driving in deep snow, which would work better and why?

I would have thought that the arb-type lockers would be better because they will always give drive to at least one wheel per axle whilst an LSD could still lose drive if one wheel has no grip at all? Was speaking to a local who has two LSD's in his 90 and hd reckons they're far better than "normal" lockers.

Depends what you want the LSDs will allow a difference in wheel speeds so you will be able to steer and have some traction beter for road use in snow with a little off road, lockers best for outright forward /reverse traction off road not too bad for steering with the back locked but locking the front not good,For mostly off road / snow lockers are best and dont wear out like a LSD will and if steering is afected you can disingage them..

Edited by powerstroke on Monday 30th July 22:53

[100SRV]

powerstroke said:

Depends what you want the LSDs will allow a difference in wheel speeds so you will be able to steer and have some traction beter for road use in snow with a little off road, lockers best for outright forward /reverse traction off road not too bad for steering with the back locked but locking the front not good,For mostly off road / snow lockers are best and dont wear out like a LSD will and if steering is afected you can disingage them..

Edited by powerstroke on Monday 30th July 22:53

What about using an ATB - no driver input required, completely transparent in use and no clutch pack to wear out. I have one in the back axle of my Bowler and had no problems ascending the hill from Church Stretton (yes the one with very little armco and a massive drop) onto the top of the Long Mynd when it was covered in a mix of snow and ice. Manually locking differentials are OK but tend to provoke side-slip when used on slippery surfaces which have a camber (e.g. icy country lane).

[Lefty]

100SRV said:

What about using an ATB - no driver input required, completely transparent in use and no clutch pack to wear out. I have one in the back axle of my Bowler and had no problems ascending the hill from Church Stretton (yes the one with very little armco and a massive drop) onto the top of the Long Mynd when it was covered in a mix of snow and ice. Manually locking differentials are OK but tend to provoke side-slip when used on slippery surfaces which have a camber (e.g. icy country lane).

ATB?

[Turn7]

Lefty said:

100SRV said:

What about using an ATB - no driver input required, completely transparent in use and no clutch pack to wear out. I have one in the back axle of my Bowler and had no problems ascending the hill from Church Stretton (yes the one with very little armco and a massive drop) onto the top of the Long Mynd when it was covered in a mix of snow and ice. Manually locking differentials are OK but tend to provoke side-slip when used on slippery surfaces which have a camber (e.g. icy country lane).

ATB?

http://www.burtonpower.com/quaife-atb-differential-english-axle-qualsd1.html

[bigblock]

I think the best combination is a manually locking diff on the rear and a Detroit style locker on the front. This provides good traction but also allows the front end to steer.

[100SRV]

bigblock said:

I think the best combination is a manually locking diff on the rear and a Detroit style locker on the front. This provides good traction but also allows the front end to steer.

You definitely don't want to fit a Detroit locker in the front as these are locked all the time and only unlock to allow the inside wheel to travel more slowly when cornering. An ATB (Automatic Torque Biasing) differential is better fit in the front, either Quaife, Detroit Truetrac or the Ashcroft part.

[300bhp/ton]

As others have said, it all depends on what type of LSD's and what the use is.

Lockers are great, but have limited use at low speed under certain conditions when steering isn't as important. On snow a front locker would make turning quite a challenge I'd have thought.

[bigblock]

100SRV said:

bigblock said:

I think the best combination is a manually locking diff on the rear and a Detroit style locker on the front. This provides good traction but also allows the front end to steer.

You definitely don't want to fit a Detroit locker in the front as these are locked all the time and only unlock to allow the inside wheel to travel more slowly when cornering. An ATB (Automatic Torque Biasing) differential is better fit in the front, either Quaife, Detroit Truetrac or the Ashcroft part.

I meant to say a Detroit Truetrac (ATB) syle of locker for the front rather than a standard Detroit style locker hence my reference to steering, thanks for correcting my mistake.

[SlimJim16v]

Only a std open diff will lose drive if one wheel has no grip. Any type of limited or locked diff should be OK in snow I think. Don't forget if a centre diff is fitted that must also be limited or locked.

[wookie1]

Diff locks

Arb

Ashcroft

Air lockers are the best form of locker for off road driving you choose when you would like them in or out

LSD if im racing off road but only in the back

[TheHeretic]

Well, it depends on use. For a mix used vehicle, a decent LSD or an air locker in the rear would be fine. Still unsure of the benefits of auto lockers in a mixed use vehicle.

[BonzoG]

SlimJim16v said:

Only a std open diff will lose drive if one wheel has no grip. Any type of limited or locked diff should be OK in snow I think.

I thought a Torsen would lose drive if one wheel has literally no traction at all - e.g. if the wheel is off the ground, or it's properly icy?

[PhillipM]

BonzoG said:

I thought a Torsen would lose drive if one wheel has literally no traction at all - e.g. if the wheel is off the ground, or it's properly icy?

Pretty much, it can only shuffle torque as a ratio of what's available at the other wheel, 3 x sweet FA = sweet FA

[SlimJim16v]

We did discuss the torsen on evocorner, as the integrale has one in the rear. I think the eventual answer was that it does work with one wheel off the ground, but my memory is hazy and the search function only goes back 3 months unless you're a paying member.

If it doesn't limit slip with one wheel off the ground, just pull the handbrake

[PhillipM]

^^That's the usual trick if driving in the mud/snow with one.

[poah]

SlimJim16v said:

If it doesn't limit slip with one wheel off the ground, just pull the handbrake

not an option in a standard landrover

[TheHeretic]

poah said:

not an option in a standard landrover

Or a standard SJ.

[24seven]

poah said:

not an option in a standard landrover

Just dab your foot on the brake.