Red Diesel off road?
Discussion
If this is a dumb idea im sure soneone will tell me... Is it possible and practical to have a 5 gallon jerry can secured in the boot with a fuel line temporarily running through tha car to feed red diesel to the engine? I have a 2000 terrano 2.7td and from what i can see there is no return pipe?? obviously i dont want to return return red to the main tank. When i want to drive home simply remove the temporary pipe and can and reconnect the pipe to the one under the bonnet from the main tank. I cant see (or hear) any pump under the tank and im pretty sure the fuel is "pulled" up from the front somewhere? I think this will work but if there is a return pipe my idea wont be so straight forward?
It seems HMRC are wise to your idea:
Unless I'm totally grabbing the wrong end of their stick, it seems more about how the vehicle is registered and licensed than where it's actually being used, i.e if you pay road tax for the vehicle, you pay fuel duty on the diesel that goes in it.
directgov.website said:
4.3 Can I store rebated oil in auxiliary (belly) tanks on a vehicle or trailer?
Yes, but only in fuel tanks not capable of connection to the engine used to propel the vehicle (unless it is an excepted vehicle). The standard running tank(s), whether connected or disconnected, must contain only fully duty paid fuel. Rebated gas oil must not be taken into the standard running tanks or auxiliary tanks fitted to vehicles or trailers except where these tanks are solely and permanently connected to the auxiliary machinery (for example, refrigeration motors). All other tanks on a vehicle, trailer or bulk carrier whether directly connected to the propelling engine or not, will be considered to be part of the road fuel system. Dual fuel systems are not permitted, even where they can connect to a power take off to switch the tanks.
Plenty more reading here. Yes, but only in fuel tanks not capable of connection to the engine used to propel the vehicle (unless it is an excepted vehicle). The standard running tank(s), whether connected or disconnected, must contain only fully duty paid fuel. Rebated gas oil must not be taken into the standard running tanks or auxiliary tanks fitted to vehicles or trailers except where these tanks are solely and permanently connected to the auxiliary machinery (for example, refrigeration motors). All other tanks on a vehicle, trailer or bulk carrier whether directly connected to the propelling engine or not, will be considered to be part of the road fuel system. Dual fuel systems are not permitted, even where they can connect to a power take off to switch the tanks.
Unless I'm totally grabbing the wrong end of their stick, it seems more about how the vehicle is registered and licensed than where it's actually being used, i.e if you pay road tax for the vehicle, you pay fuel duty on the diesel that goes in it.
Yeah i guess so. In simple terms no road going engine (except licensed cranes, agriculture etc) can be fueled on the public road on red duty rebated fuel. Off road run on what you like but if any red is traced when on public roads your in for big fines or confiscation of vehicle.
Edited by BFG TERRANO on Tuesday 24th January 22:14
BFG TERRANO said:
Off road run on what you like
Not that simple....HMRC said:
2.1 What fuel can I legally use in a diesel-engined road vehicle?
Apart from the circumstances described in paragraph 2.1.1 below you must always use duty paid fuel.
2.1.1 Certain biodiesel and fuel substitute producers and users, who meet the definition of ‘exempt producers’, can use limited amounts of fuel which has not been duty paid. For more details see Section 4 of Notice 179E Biofuels and other fuel substitutes.
...
2.3 Can any vehicle use rebated heavy oils as road fuel?
Only vehicles which are specifically excluded from the legal definition of ’road vehicle’ may use rebated heavy oil as road fuel. These are known as 'excepted vehicles' and are listed in Section 8. Unless the vehicle is included in that section it counts as a ’road vehicle’ and must use fully duty paid fuel.
...
8. Excepted vehicles
(referred to at paragraphs 2.3 and 4.2).
8.1 What vehicles can use rebated fuel?
8.2 Unlicensed vehicles not used on public roads
8.3 Tractors
8.4 Light agricultural vehicles
8.5 Agricultural material handlers
8.6 Agricultural engines
8.7 Agricultural processing vehicles
8.8 Vehicles used between different parts of the land
8.9 Mowing machines
8.10 Snow clearing vehicles
8.11 Gritters
8.13 Mobile pumping vehicles
8.14 Digging machines
8.15 Works trucks
8.16 Road construction vehicles
8.17 Road Rollers
8.18 Road surfacing vehicles
8.19 Tar Sprayers
Notice the definition doesn't specify where the vehicle is being used, it's more about how it's being used, and what it's classified as for licensing purposes. OK, so you could argue how would HMRC ever know and the chances are they won't, but they aren't known for their light hearted approach to what is, essentially, tax evasion and they'll demonstrate this by taking away your car.Apart from the circumstances described in paragraph 2.1.1 below you must always use duty paid fuel.
2.1.1 Certain biodiesel and fuel substitute producers and users, who meet the definition of ‘exempt producers’, can use limited amounts of fuel which has not been duty paid. For more details see Section 4 of Notice 179E Biofuels and other fuel substitutes.
...
2.3 Can any vehicle use rebated heavy oils as road fuel?
Only vehicles which are specifically excluded from the legal definition of ’road vehicle’ may use rebated heavy oil as road fuel. These are known as 'excepted vehicles' and are listed in Section 8. Unless the vehicle is included in that section it counts as a ’road vehicle’ and must use fully duty paid fuel.
...
8. Excepted vehicles
(referred to at paragraphs 2.3 and 4.2).
8.1 What vehicles can use rebated fuel?
8.2 Unlicensed vehicles not used on public roads
8.3 Tractors
8.4 Light agricultural vehicles
8.5 Agricultural material handlers
8.6 Agricultural engines
8.7 Agricultural processing vehicles
8.8 Vehicles used between different parts of the land
8.9 Mowing machines
8.10 Snow clearing vehicles
8.11 Gritters
8.13 Mobile pumping vehicles
8.14 Digging machines
8.15 Works trucks
8.16 Road construction vehicles
8.17 Road Rollers
8.18 Road surfacing vehicles
8.19 Tar Sprayers
A track day car could qualify if it isn't licensed for use on the public highway.
Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 24th January 23:11
Thanks for the info, thats my idea over then! Just a thought but as previously mentioned, hassle factor against savings dont really make it worth it. HMRC seem to have all angles closed to prevent abuse i assume. Oh well.. Nice idea but i guess its still £1.40 plus per litre then whether on tar mac or mud. Thanks again for the info.
Crossflow Kid said:
BFG TERRANO said:
Off road run on what you like
Not that simple....HMRC said:
2.1 What fuel can I legally use in a diesel-engined road vehicle?
Apart from the circumstances described in paragraph 2.1.1 below you must always use duty paid fuel.
2.1.1 Certain biodiesel and fuel substitute producers and users, who meet the definition of ‘exempt producers’, can use limited amounts of fuel which has not been duty paid. For more details see Section 4 of Notice 179E Biofuels and other fuel substitutes.
...
2.3 Can any vehicle use rebated heavy oils as road fuel?
Only vehicles which are specifically excluded from the legal definition of ’road vehicle’ may use rebated heavy oil as road fuel. These are known as 'excepted vehicles' and are listed in Section 8. Unless the vehicle is included in that section it counts as a ’road vehicle’ and must use fully duty paid fuel.
...
8. Excepted vehicles
(referred to at paragraphs 2.3 and 4.2).
8.1 What vehicles can use rebated fuel?
8.2 Unlicensed vehicles not used on public roads
8.3 Tractors
8.4 Light agricultural vehicles
8.5 Agricultural material handlers
8.6 Agricultural engines
8.7 Agricultural processing vehicles
8.8 Vehicles used between different parts of the land
8.9 Mowing machines
8.10 Snow clearing vehicles
8.11 Gritters
8.13 Mobile pumping vehicles
8.14 Digging machines
8.15 Works trucks
8.16 Road construction vehicles
8.17 Road Rollers
8.18 Road surfacing vehicles
8.19 Tar Sprayers
Notice the definition doesn't specify where the vehicle is being used, it's more about how it's being used, and what it's classified as for licensing purposes. OK, so you could argue how would HMRC ever know and the chances are they won't, but they aren't known for their light hearted approach to what is, essentially, tax evasion and they'll demonstrate this by taking away your car.Apart from the circumstances described in paragraph 2.1.1 below you must always use duty paid fuel.
2.1.1 Certain biodiesel and fuel substitute producers and users, who meet the definition of ‘exempt producers’, can use limited amounts of fuel which has not been duty paid. For more details see Section 4 of Notice 179E Biofuels and other fuel substitutes.
...
2.3 Can any vehicle use rebated heavy oils as road fuel?
Only vehicles which are specifically excluded from the legal definition of ’road vehicle’ may use rebated heavy oil as road fuel. These are known as 'excepted vehicles' and are listed in Section 8. Unless the vehicle is included in that section it counts as a ’road vehicle’ and must use fully duty paid fuel.
...
8. Excepted vehicles
(referred to at paragraphs 2.3 and 4.2).
8.1 What vehicles can use rebated fuel?
8.2 Unlicensed vehicles not used on public roads
8.3 Tractors
8.4 Light agricultural vehicles
8.5 Agricultural material handlers
8.6 Agricultural engines
8.7 Agricultural processing vehicles
8.8 Vehicles used between different parts of the land
8.9 Mowing machines
8.10 Snow clearing vehicles
8.11 Gritters
8.13 Mobile pumping vehicles
8.14 Digging machines
8.15 Works trucks
8.16 Road construction vehicles
8.17 Road Rollers
8.18 Road surfacing vehicles
8.19 Tar Sprayers
A track day car could qualify if it isn't licensed for use on the public highway.
Edited by Crossflow Kid on Tuesday 24th January 23:11
could bolt a snowplough on your bullbars
I'm no expert, just a user of both. My understanding is that gas oil (red) has a lower cetane rating and less lubrication.
I have a three cylinder Iveco engine on some plant that usually runs on red. However if we run out it has some DERV and is noticeably quieter.
Some newer tractors also need a better quality fuel than gas oil. This is done with additives to the bulk tank.
I have a three cylinder Iveco engine on some plant that usually runs on red. However if we run out it has some DERV and is noticeably quieter.
Some newer tractors also need a better quality fuel than gas oil. This is done with additives to the bulk tank.
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