off-road toy

[Ecosseven]

Afternoon all,

I’m keen to get myself a new, cheap toy this year to join my current fleet of a Ford Mondeo and a Caterham seven. The Mondeo does all the boring stuff including commuting and is an excellent workhorse. The Seven is the weekend and summer toy for back road blasts. With a budget of £3-4K I’m looking at either a motorbike (already got my licence and riding gear) or a proper off-roader with some subtle modifications.

If I decide to go down the off-roader route I’ll be wanting the following.

Big chunky tyres (say 33” minimum)
2” suspension lift
Maybe a diff / sump guard
I would prefer not to modify the bodywork if possible.
Prefer something reliable as possible for the money.
Number of seats not important so trucks and pick-ups are fine.
On road handling not really important as long as it’s not dangerously unstable.

Not worried about insurance or mpg as vehicle will only do about 3k miles a year and be insured on a specialist / classic policy.

Any suggestions?

I think the modifications will probably cost around £1200 so that leaves £1800 – £2800 for the vehicle.

[JPdot]

old freenlander or dicovery?

[300bhp/ton]

JPdot said:

old freenlander or dicovery?

Freelander on 33" tyres

[normalbloke]

300bhp/ton said:

Freelander on 33" tyres

Cough.

[pcn1]

I was going to go down the Jeep Cherokee (90's type) for that kind of toy.
£1000 seems to get you a good late 90's 4.0L with all the toys. There so unloved by the public they go for peanuts. But they have a great pedigree and a massive aftermarket of parts behind them. Check out youtube for what the yanks do with them.
In the end I knew I needed more of an everyday family jeep so went grand cherokee diesel.

[300bhp/ton]

normalbloke said:

Cough.

Lol is that not a Freelander on top of a Disco chassis, rather than a Freelander on 33's

Kinda looks like a live axle out front.

[normalbloke]

300bhp/ton said:

Lol is that not a Freelander on top of a Disco chassis, rather than a Freelander on 33's

Kinda looks like a live axle out front.

It's nasty, either way!

[Ray Luxury-Yacht]

Jeep Wrangler, either older YJ or later TJ.

Can be had from around £1500 upwards. The sky's the limit with mods. But excellent off road, especially if you get the 4.0 straight six engine, which is a bit of a must. Manual or auto ok, mine's an auto and is great in the mud.

My YJ has a 4" suspension lift, 3" body lift, slip yoke eliminator with double cardan rear prop, Detroit semi-locking diffs F+R, running on 35 inch tyres, plus a few toys like snorkel etc.

Total cost to build, probably in the region of £4k including the car, if you do the work yourself. I was lucky to find a nice, looked after low mileage '96 4 litre for £1800.

All you'll ever need this side of a Unimog.

Pic:

[300bhp/ton]

Ecosseven said:

Afternoon all,

I’m keen to get myself a new, cheap toy this year to join my current fleet of a Ford Mondeo and a Caterham seven. The Mondeo does all the boring stuff including commuting and is an excellent workhorse. The Seven is the weekend and summer toy for back road blasts. With a budget of £3-4K I’m looking at either a motorbike (already got my licence and riding gear) or a proper off-roader with some subtle modifications.

Hi, thought I'd try and add something a little more constructive.

First up, I'd say remember a modded 4x4 is as purpose built as any sports car. So a mismatch of parts or poor modifications can seriously hinder a 4x4 and/or heavily reduce it's day to day ability.

Ecosseven said:

If I decide to go down the off-roader route I’ll be wanting the following.

Big chunky tyres (say 33” minimum)
2” suspension lift

In truth there aren't all that many vehicles you can just slap 33" mud tyres too. It doesn't mean you can't, but some 4x4's are a lot smaller and you just don't need to go that big. Really depends what you want from it.

In terms of lifts.... well that's one big debate. But remember not all lifts are equal, so do you want it just for the look, or for an actual performance gain?

Cheap lifts are often (although not always) a way of raising a vehicle, but often at the sacrifice of ability and road use.

Ecosseven said:

Maybe a diff / sump guard

Don't get hung up on these. As it will vary from vehicle to vehicle on if they are even available or needed. Also depends what sort of off roading you'll be doing, if its mud and/or sandy terrain, such guards only serve to reduce you ground clearance and get you stuck!

If you plan to play on the rocks a lot, then they start to make sense in terms of protection, although they still affect clearances.

Ecosseven said:

I would prefer not to modify the bodywork if possible.

Any reason for this?

I only ask, as if you off road it, you'll likely take a knock. Although wheel arch trimming can be essential on some vehicles, and an alternative to lifting.

Ecosseven said:

Prefer something reliable as possible for the money.

lol

I ask this time and time again on PH, what exactly is or isn't reliable??

In short almost all cars "can" be reliable. And almost "any" car can be unreliable.

A modded 4x4 is likely to be an on going project to an extent and if you actually off road it, then there will always be little things that you'll want to do to it.

I think a better way of looking at it is, how many miles a month are you likely to do in it, on what sort of roads and under what sort of conditions. Are you a hard driver, or more mechanically considerate?

Also, do you like to tinker and work on the vehicles yourself?

And lastly, there is a distinction between high maintenance and unreliability. Some vehicles simply need more maintaining - but this is expected and the norm, so can't be seen as unreliability.

Ecosseven said:

Number of seats not important so trucks and pick-ups are fine.
On road handling not really important as long as it’s not dangerously unstable.

I sort of know what you mean.... But pretty much any 4x4 can be unstable if sufficiently provoked. Running a 2" lift and 33" tyres on anything will not improve this, only hinder.

If you want the lifted monster truck look (as many of us do ) then that's fine, but you can't defy physics. It simply won't handle as well on the road. If you want it to be fast and capable on road, then you'll need to tailor it to suit, but it'll look quite different.

Ecosseven said:

Any suggestions?

I think the modifications will probably cost around £1200 so that leaves £1800 – £2800 for the vehicle.

I think there are loads of sensible vehicles to look at, but bearing in mind what I've said above. What do you actually want from the vehicle?

Will you use it off road, if so for what? There are so many different types of off roading and one vehicle can't be a master of all. Something as simple as size, big vehicles work very well on some terrain, while are pretty much useless on others.

Also if you plan to really get into off roading you might want to compete in trials events, this means the vehicle you chose is even more critical.

Will you be hauling or towing anything with it?


Right, to some suggestions. It seems you have around a £4k budget in total. Which is plenty to get something interesting, although maybe not enough to go too extreme, even more so if it drops to only spending £1800 on a vehicle.

In short there are loads of potential vehicles, I'll cite a few that I feel are suitable and ones I have some sort of experience with or knowledge of.



Land Rovers - In the UK it does make sense to consider these due to their popularity. This means loads of parts, tuning bits, places to buy from and take the vehicle too. And lots of choice of vehicles too. There is also a huge owners community such as the ALRC if you want to get into trialling.


For your budget I think the most suitable Landy's would be either a Series or a Discovery (classic RR as it's basically the same vehicle as a Disco). The reason I cite these is they are well within budget to buy something solid and usable and both highly capable.

A 88" Series 2 or 3 would be ideal for a spot of off roading. They are slow, noisy and like a drink, but it sort of adds to their charm. Very easy to maintain and retain their value very well. Also very easy to sell on.

They can also be modded easily too. 32" tyres will fit straight on and 33's are only a few mods away. They are fairly easy to lift an inch or two as well. If you are feeling more ballsy, look at a Tdi or V8 conversion, or buy one already done. In reality a Series Landy can be made as good off road as almost anything else. That said, the standard gearbox and axles are a bit weak and the front suspension design is not the greatest off road. It also won't be a tarmac worrier.

Disco/RR's. These are a world apart from a Series Landy. Much, much nicer on road and arguably better off it in some regards, although their bulk can be a hindrance at times. Rover axles still aren't great, but if you are careful then they should survive with 33's. You can lift them pretty easily too, although as I said earlier, some of the cheap lift kits aren't exactly great. Or trim the arches, I ran 33's on my Disco without lifting it, just hacked 6" off the arches instead.


For your budget you might be able to consider a couple of other Landys such as a Defender or pre-Defender Ninety.

They are the classic iconic Landy. But in truth aren't hugely different under the body to a Disco or Range Rover. Their only real advantage off road is less bulk and smaller overhangs. But they aren't actually any better.

On the road though they are certainly less refined and less comfy. Which adds charm in abundance, but isn't to all tastes. They are nearer a Series Landy in terms of comfort than they are to a Disco.

They are just as modable as a Disco/RR and often use many of the same parts. You can just fit 33's on, but they'll rub, so either trim the plastic wheel arch flares or a small lift.

The only real downer is price. You'll buy a lot more Disco for your money, so have a look at prices and see what you can find.


Freelander. Ok I nominate this, because if you won't really be off roading much, then the Freelander makes huge sense. Independant suspension and a monocoque body. It is the most car like to drive, the most comfy and the most refined.

You won't fit 33's on one, but with a 2" lift and some chunkier rubber the TCS equipped Freelanders are actually quite capable off road, in fact arguably better than a Defender or Disco without TCS on certain terrain such as wet grass, snow or sand.

One thing with Landy's though, they do like maintenance. They are very old school in design, so like TLC. As a rule they are pretty reliable, but suffer silly niggles all the time. They'll never be perfect and something will always need doing to them. Watch for rust though.


Jeeps - The vehicle that actually inspired the creation of the Land Rover and one with an even bigger after market (Worldwide), although less well known in the UK.

The bargain of the bunch has to be the XJ Cherokee. A mix of modern and old school technology. It uses a monocoque chassis like a Freelander, but proper old school live axles. It even has leaf suspension out back.

But the reality is, they are as comfy daily as a Disco or Range Rover, but in a more compact and lightweight package. They are infact not much bigger than a Defender 90 when parked side by side.

In standard trim they lack ground clearance, but lift kits are easily available for them. And from here on after they are an easy equal or even superior design to the Land Rovers. 33" tyres can be fitted, although like the Landy's, you are starting to push the axles somewhat. That said, if you aren't hard on it off road, I know of people running upto 36" tyres on stock axles.

The best thing though is the purchase price. Cherokee's start at £500 and £1000-12000 will get you a very nice one. Which means you can be far more affective with your modifications.

The Jeeps also have some very nice engine and transmission options, and most can be had with all the goodies like A/C, leather and electric everything.

For low mileage per year I'd say go for the High Output 4.0 litre. The 2.5 diesel is known for head gasket issues and the 2.5 petrol lacks the grunt.


Next up is the Grand Cherokee. Slightly more pricey than the Cherokee, but still a bargain. These are nearer to Disco/RR sized and more up market. They run coils all round and as a rule weight less and out perform the Landy offerings. Choice of S6 or V8 engines and even a few Merc powered diesels too.

Lots of modding ability too and can be made pretty serious. 33's will fit right on with a lift and make it a capable off road machine with fairly good road manners.


Wranglers. As someone said above, they are fantastic. Very similar to a Defender in many ways and about the same size. The only thing I'd say is, you might struggle on your budget unless you are very lucky. The earlier YJ (square headlights) runs leaf suspension, but is more akin to a Defender than a Series Land Rover. The TJ (round headlights) is coil all round.

All Wranglers have piss poor ground clearance stock, so all need lifting, but 33" tyres are then easy to fit. The Wrangler runs many similar parts to a Cherokee, so axles are a weak part. But only if you are brutal off road.

All in all though, I think the biggest thing against the Wrangler is the Cherokee. For less money you get pretty much the same ability in a more comfy package. The biggest trick of the Wrangler is its fun factor, in terms of a removable roof, doors and fold down windscreen.


Jeeps are a bit like Landys in terms of build. All old school and all nuts and bolts. Parts supply in the UK isn't as good though, but they are still fairly well catered for if you look about.



Suzuki's -There are really a couple of Suzuki models I think worth noting.


Jimny - Often over looked, but these things are brutally affective. Ladder chassis, coil suspension and compact dimensions. They are essentially a modern day 80" Series 1 Land Rover.

They are also cheap to run and maintain. But you won't be fitting 33's to one realistically. As a much smaller vehicle they won't do the monster truck look as easily or as well. 30-31" tyres are much more realistic goals, but being a smaller vehicle means it can still look chunky with over sized tyres.

If you want an off roader, over look the Jimny at your own peril!

SJ's - the predecessor to the Jimny and run leaf suspension. Capable but suffer a lot of rust issues. Common sense says, if you can afford a Jimny why get an SJ?

Vitara's - they look similar to a Jimny, but are quite different. More road biased and with independent front suspension. They are still fully a 4x4 and not a car though, but they can look good and be quite affective. That said, if you want an off roader I don't see why you'd buy a Vitara over a Jimny?



Toyota - There are loads of vehicles to choose from. But you are most likely to consider a Hilux or a 4Runner (Hilux Surf). Oddly the pickup truck holds its money very well, even for tatty ones. Leaf suspension all round, but a good solid design with good solid abilities. Strong axles and easy to lift.

A great candidate for a road going monster truck.

Surfs and 4Runners are similar to the pickups, although most/all have IFS rather than a live front axle. So aren't quite as good off road, but should be better on it.

Toyota build many other 4x4's like Land Cruisers and 70 Series. But they are more niche and my knowledge doesn't extend to them.



Other trucks -

There are loads of other trucks that are in budget, some quite popular like Troopers and Shoguns. But I'm not so familiar with them. Most run IFS, so ultimately aren't quite as rugged or capable as their Landy or Jeep counter parts when off the road. Most can be modded too, but again is more niche in terms of parts and owner community in the UK.


Then there's the even less known trucks such as FourTrak, Niva, Maverick, Terrano. Most are capable, but you'll be somewhat more on your own in terms of modding, as the community just doesn't exist in the same numbers.

[pcn1]

Here endeth the lesson !!!

Good read A used Jeep does give you alot for your money if you can handle the mpg of the 4.0L.

[Lefty]

You should be able to get a decent Unimog 404 for £3k.

Note, the one on ebay at £3k is a bit of a shed and overpriced!

I sold one with a new hood, decent paint, little rust and a pile of spares (including a BNIB PTO) for £3500 last year.

[Ecosseven]

300bhp/ton said:

Ecosseven said:

Afternoon all,

I’m keen to get myself a new, cheap toy this year to join my current fleet of a Ford Mondeo and a Caterham seven. The Mondeo does all the boring stuff including commuting and is an excellent workhorse. The Seven is the weekend and summer toy for back road blasts. With a budget of £3-4K I’m looking at either a motorbike (already got my licence and riding gear) or a proper off-roader with some subtle modifications.

Hi, thought I'd try and add something a little more constructive.

First up, I'd say remember a modded 4x4 is as purpose built as any sports car. So a mismatch of parts or poor modifications can seriously hinder a 4x4 and/or heavily reduce it's day to day ability.

Ecosseven said:

If I decide to go down the off-roader route I’ll be wanting the following.

Big chunky tyres (say 33” minimum)
2” suspension lift

In truth there aren't all that many vehicles you can just slap 33" mud tyres too. It doesn't mean you can't, but some 4x4's are a lot smaller and you just don't need to go that big. Really depends what you want from it.

In terms of lifts.... well that's one big debate. But remember not all lifts are equal, so do you want it just for the look, or for an actual performance gain?

Cheap lifts are often (although not always) a way of raising a vehicle, but often at the sacrifice of ability and road use.

Ecosseven said:

Maybe a diff / sump guard

Don't get hung up on these. As it will vary from vehicle to vehicle on if they are even available or needed. Also depends what sort of off roading you'll be doing, if its mud and/or sandy terrain, such guards only serve to reduce you ground clearance and get you stuck!

If you plan to play on the rocks a lot, then they start to make sense in terms of protection, although they still affect clearances.

Ecosseven said:

I would prefer not to modify the bodywork if possible.

Any reason for this?

I only ask, as if you off road it, you'll likely take a knock. Although wheel arch trimming can be essential on some vehicles, and an alternative to lifting.

Ecosseven said:

Prefer something reliable as possible for the money.

lol

I ask this time and time again on PH, what exactly is or isn't reliable??

In short almost all cars "can" be reliable. And almost "any" car can be unreliable.

A modded 4x4 is likely to be an on going project to an extent and if you actually off road it, then there will always be little things that you'll want to do to it.

I think a better way of looking at it is, how many miles a month are you likely to do in it, on what sort of roads and under what sort of conditions. Are you a hard driver, or more mechanically considerate?

Also, do you like to tinker and work on the vehicles yourself?

And lastly, there is a distinction between high maintenance and unreliability. Some vehicles simply need more maintaining - but this is expected and the norm, so can't be seen as unreliability.

Ecosseven said:

Number of seats not important so trucks and pick-ups are fine.
On road handling not really important as long as it’s not dangerously unstable.

I sort of know what you mean.... But pretty much any 4x4 can be unstable if sufficiently provoked. Running a 2" lift and 33" tyres on anything will not improve this, only hinder.

If you want the lifted monster truck look (as many of us do ) then that's fine, but you can't defy physics. It simply won't handle as well on the road. If you want it to be fast and capable on road, then you'll need to tailor it to suit, but it'll look quite different.

Ecosseven said:

Any suggestions?

I think the modifications will probably cost around £1200 so that leaves £1800 – £2800 for the vehicle.

I think there are loads of sensible vehicles to look at, but bearing in mind what I've said above. What do you actually want from the vehicle?

Will you use it off road, if so for what? There are so many different types of off roading and one vehicle can't be a master of all. Something as simple as size, big vehicles work very well on some terrain, while are pretty much useless on others.

Also if you plan to really get into off roading you might want to compete in trials events, this means the vehicle you chose is even more critical.

Will you be hauling or towing anything with it?


Right, to some suggestions. It seems you have around a £4k budget in total. Which is plenty to get something interesting, although maybe not enough to go too extreme, even more so if it drops to only spending £1800 on a vehicle.

In short there are loads of potential vehicles, I'll cite a few that I feel are suitable and ones I have some sort of experience with or knowledge of.



Land Rovers - In the UK it does make sense to consider these due to their popularity. This means loads of parts, tuning bits, places to buy from and take the vehicle too. And lots of choice of vehicles too. There is also a huge owners community such as the ALRC if you want to get into trialling.


For your budget I think the most suitable Landy's would be either a Series or a Discovery (classic RR as it's basically the same vehicle as a Disco). The reason I cite these is they are well within budget to buy something solid and usable and both highly capable.

A 88" Series 2 or 3 would be ideal for a spot of off roading. They are slow, noisy and like a drink, but it sort of adds to their charm. Very easy to maintain and retain their value very well. Also very easy to sell on.

They can also be modded easily too. 32" tyres will fit straight on and 33's are only a few mods away. They are fairly easy to lift an inch or two as well. If you are feeling more ballsy, look at a Tdi or V8 conversion, or buy one already done. In reality a Series Landy can be made as good off road as almost anything else. That said, the standard gearbox and axles are a bit weak and the front suspension design is not the greatest off road. It also won't be a tarmac worrier.

Disco/RR's. These are a world apart from a Series Landy. Much, much nicer on road and arguably better off it in some regards, although their bulk can be a hindrance at times. Rover axles still aren't great, but if you are careful then they should survive with 33's. You can lift them pretty easily too, although as I said earlier, some of the cheap lift kits aren't exactly great. Or trim the arches, I ran 33's on my Disco without lifting it, just hacked 6" off the arches instead.


For your budget you might be able to consider a couple of other Landys such as a Defender or pre-Defender Ninety.

They are the classic iconic Landy. But in truth aren't hugely different under the body to a Disco or Range Rover. Their only real advantage off road is less bulk and smaller overhangs. But they aren't actually any better.

On the road though they are certainly less refined and less comfy. Which adds charm in abundance, but isn't to all tastes. They are nearer a Series Landy in terms of comfort than they are to a Disco.

They are just as modable as a Disco/RR and often use many of the same parts. You can just fit 33's on, but they'll rub, so either trim the plastic wheel arch flares or a small lift.

The only real downer is price. You'll buy a lot more Disco for your money, so have a look at prices and see what you can find.


Freelander. Ok I nominate this, because if you won't really be off roading much, then the Freelander makes huge sense. Independant suspension and a monocoque body. It is the most car like to drive, the most comfy and the most refined.

You won't fit 33's on one, but with a 2" lift and some chunkier rubber the TCS equipped Freelanders are actually quite capable off road, in fact arguably better than a Defender or Disco without TCS on certain terrain such as wet grass, snow or sand.

One thing with Landy's though, they do like maintenance. They are very old school in design, so like TLC. As a rule they are pretty reliable, but suffer silly niggles all the time. They'll never be perfect and something will always need doing to them. Watch for rust though.


Jeeps - The vehicle that actually inspired the creation of the Land Rover and one with an even bigger after market (Worldwide), although less well known in the UK.

The bargain of the bunch has to be the XJ Cherokee. A mix of modern and old school technology. It uses a monocoque chassis like a Freelander, but proper old school live axles. It even has leaf suspension out back.

But the reality is, they are as comfy daily as a Disco or Range Rover, but in a more compact and lightweight package. They are infact not much bigger than a Defender 90 when parked side by side.

In standard trim they lack ground clearance, but lift kits are easily available for them. And from here on after they are an easy equal or even superior design to the Land Rovers. 33" tyres can be fitted, although like the Landy's, you are starting to push the axles somewhat. That said, if you aren't hard on it off road, I know of people running upto 36" tyres on stock axles.

The best thing though is the purchase price. Cherokee's start at £500 and £1000-12000 will get you a very nice one. Which means you can be far more affective with your modifications.

The Jeeps also have some very nice engine and transmission options, and most can be had with all the goodies like A/C, leather and electric everything.

For low mileage per year I'd say go for the High Output 4.0 litre. The 2.5 diesel is known for head gasket issues and the 2.5 petrol lacks the grunt.


Next up is the Grand Cherokee. Slightly more pricey than the Cherokee, but still a bargain. These are nearer to Disco/RR sized and more up market. They run coils all round and as a rule weight less and out perform the Landy offerings. Choice of S6 or V8 engines and even a few Merc powered diesels too.

Lots of modding ability too and can be made pretty serious. 33's will fit right on with a lift and make it a capable off road machine with fairly good road manners.


Wranglers. As someone said above, they are fantastic. Very similar to a Defender in many ways and about the same size. The only thing I'd say is, you might struggle on your budget unless you are very lucky. The earlier YJ (square headlights) runs leaf suspension, but is more akin to a Defender than a Series Land Rover. The TJ (round headlights) is coil all round.

All Wranglers have piss poor ground clearance stock, so all need lifting, but 33" tyres are then easy to fit. The Wrangler runs many similar parts to a Cherokee, so axles are a weak part. But only if you are brutal off road.

All in all though, I think the biggest thing against the Wrangler is the Cherokee. For less money you get pretty much the same ability in a more comfy package. The biggest trick of the Wrangler is its fun factor, in terms of a removable roof, doors and fold down windscreen.


Jeeps are a bit like Landys in terms of build. All old school and all nuts and bolts. Parts supply in the UK isn't as good though, but they are still fairly well catered for if you look about.



Suzuki's -There are really a couple of Suzuki models I think worth noting.


Jimny - Often over looked, but these things are brutally affective. Ladder chassis, coil suspension and compact dimensions. They are essentially a modern day 80" Series 1 Land Rover.

They are also cheap to run and maintain. But you won't be fitting 33's to one realistically. As a much smaller vehicle they won't do the monster truck look as easily or as well. 30-31" tyres are much more realistic goals, but being a smaller vehicle means it can still look chunky with over sized tyres.

If you want an off roader, over look the Jimny at your own peril!

SJ's - the predecessor to the Jimny and run leaf suspension. Capable but suffer a lot of rust issues. Common sense says, if you can afford a Jimny why get an SJ?

Vitara's - they look similar to a Jimny, but are quite different. More road biased and with independent front suspension. They are still fully a 4x4 and not a car though, but they can look good and be quite affective. That said, if you want an off roader I don't see why you'd buy a Vitara over a Jimny?



Toyota - There are loads of vehicles to choose from. But you are most likely to consider a Hilux or a 4Runner (Hilux Surf). Oddly the pickup truck holds its money very well, even for tatty ones. Leaf suspension all round, but a good solid design with good solid abilities. Strong axles and easy to lift.

A great candidate for a road going monster truck.

Surfs and 4Runners are similar to the pickups, although most/all have IFS rather than a live front axle. So aren't quite as good off road, but should be better on it.

Toyota build many other 4x4's like Land Cruisers and 70 Series. But they are more niche and my knowledge doesn't extend to them.



Other trucks -

There are loads of other trucks that are in budget, some quite popular like Troopers and Shoguns. But I'm not so familiar with them. Most run IFS, so ultimately aren't quite as rugged or capable as their Landy or Jeep counter parts when off the road. Most can be modded too, but again is more niche in terms of parts and owner community in the UK.


Then there's the even less known trucks such as FourTrak, Niva, Maverick, Terrano. Most are capable, but you'll be somewhat more on your own in terms of modding, as the community just doesn't exist in the same numbers.

Thanks for the very detailed reply.

The cherokee XJ really appeals and I have looked at these before. I like the simple angular styling, the fact that they are relatively small, and they are very cheap. I'll do some more research. I could buy a decent XJ for £1200-1500 and if the worst should happen I'll just scrap the car and sell the wheels and tyres on. I'll probabably not go bigger than a 3" lift and 31" tyres if I decide on an cherokee.

[300bhp/ton]

Ecosseven said:

Thanks for the very detailed reply.

The cherokee XJ really appeals and I have looked at these before. I like the simple angular styling, the fact that they are relatively small, and they are very cheap. I'll do some more research. I could buy a decent XJ for £1200-1500 and if the worst should happen I'll just scrap the car and sell the wheels and tyres on. I'll probabably not go bigger than a 3" lift and 31" tyres if I decide on an cherokee.

This is my current Cherokee.

2" budget boost lift of Ebay for £80 and some 31.10.50R15 mud terrains on the stock rims.

[PugwasHDJ80]

normalbloke said:

It's nasty, either way!

gonna pull you up on this- its definitely NOT nasty- being a proper space framed, grp clad special- with a V8 in it you can comp safari or even take it to Dakar for a little race (well if it was run there anymore!).

Its called a D-Lander and made by North off road.

[normalbloke]

PugwasHDJ80 said:

gonna pull you up on this- its definitely NOT nasty- being a proper space framed, grp clad special- with a V8 in it you can comp safari or even take it to Dakar for a little race (well if it was run there anymore!).

Its called a D-Lander and made by North off road.

To each their own I am aware of what it's called/who it's made by. Chap at a local club has one. Nasty!

[300bhp/ton]

normalbloke said:

PugwasHDJ80 said:

gonna pull you up on this- its definitely NOT nasty- being a proper space framed, grp clad special- with a V8 in it you can comp safari or even take it to Dakar for a little race (well if it was run there anymore!).

Its called a D-Lander and made by North off road.

To each their own I am aware of what it's called/who it's made by. Chap at a local club has one. Nasty!

Not sure I'd call it nasty. In fact I know I wouldn't. There's nothing nasty about it.

However it's not space frame as hinted at above, it is indeed a Disco/RR chassis with a cage (alla the space frame bit), with a Freelander style GRP body on top. In reality its not hugely different to any number of LR based vehicles such as Wildcats, Tomcats, Dakars and Sahara's.

It however isn't a Freelander in any shape or form.


This one is a Freelander....



Or rather it's a Freelander monocoque plopped on top of a Disco chassis, so is hugely heavy and offers none of the advantages of the original Freelander.

[bakerstreet]

normalbloke said:

Cough.

Is that one of those Freelanders thats been bolted onto a Disco or a 90 chassis. Front axel doesn't look like standard Freelander

Edit: Beaten to it!

Worth looking at a Mitsubishi Pajero too

Edited by bakerstreet on Thursday 5th January 22:14

[mat777]

One word - Defender

For 3-4k you can easily get a very good condition 2.5 n/a diesel, or more preferably, 3.5 rover v8 goodness (just avoid the deep water....)
In standard form it will spank anything by jeep (my leaf-sprung landy has more axle articulation than a wrangler, never mind a coilsprung defender) and all japanese offerings. and of course the meccano nature of a defender means you can bolt on just about any accessory you choose. I suggest you pick up a copy of Land Rover Owner magazine and take a look at all the adverts for vehicles, and all the accessory suppliers ads as well

[PugwasHDJ80]

mat777 said:

One word - Defender

For 3-4k you can easily get a very good condition 2.5 n/a diesel, or more preferably, 3.5 rover v8 goodness (just avoid the deep water....)
In standard form it will spank anything by jeep (my leaf-sprung landy has more axle articulation than a wrangler, never mind a coilsprung defender) and all japanese offerings. and of course the meccano nature of a defender means you can bolt on just about any accessory you choose. I suggest you pick up a copy of Land Rover Owner magazine and take a look at all the adverts for vehicles, and all the accessory suppliers ads as well

oh the naievety.....

I also thought that anything landrover was the best offroader in the world- 4 series, 5 defenders and 7 range rovers attested to that.

They aren't though....

They certainly are good, but in standard form a 90 won't get anywhere close to a landcruiser off road!

[mat777]

does the cruiser have locking diffs as standard?