Beginner Defender questions....
Discussion
After some words of wisdom really....
I am, well we are as the Mrs is keen too, considering a Defender as a car to use regularly and that will involve commuting, leisure and general pottering about both in town (I live in London) and country (my parents are in the Yorkshire Dales). I will have other cars to use when needed, so it won't be the only car in the household (Lexus LS).
Budget is £7-11K and I am off to look at some older tdi versions as well as some more miley (70k+) TD5 versions, ideally in 90 format either commercial or SW.
I have driven the PH Defender (latest version 110 SW) but how feasible is an older one as a daily? I will drive a couple at the weekend but I'm keen to hear real life experiences. Is there an engine to avoid? Does the TD5 expire at higher mileage? Are there any 'must have' options??
Thanks in advance
I am, well we are as the Mrs is keen too, considering a Defender as a car to use regularly and that will involve commuting, leisure and general pottering about both in town (I live in London) and country (my parents are in the Yorkshire Dales). I will have other cars to use when needed, so it won't be the only car in the household (Lexus LS).
Budget is £7-11K and I am off to look at some older tdi versions as well as some more miley (70k+) TD5 versions, ideally in 90 format either commercial or SW.
I have driven the PH Defender (latest version 110 SW) but how feasible is an older one as a daily? I will drive a couple at the weekend but I'm keen to hear real life experiences. Is there an engine to avoid? Does the TD5 expire at higher mileage? Are there any 'must have' options??
Thanks in advance
On small thing to consider is to ensure it is registered as an estate car, not any sort of commercial .. which some defenders are I believe. You will fall foul of the new 'Low Emissions Zone' thing, which as far as I understand if its' not fitted with a legit & certified/factory DPF will cost you £100 a day (!) to drive in London (and thats a huge chunk of inside the M25 London, not just the West End).
V8 LPG is surely the way to go ?
V8 LPG is surely the way to go ?
1st thing is to remember the new emissions do-da (cant think what its called!)for Diesel vehicles in London, depending what part you mean.
If you look at vehicle values lately then the TD5 engined vehicles always fetch less and are considered less desireable than the Tdi varients to many people.
I would, if choosing myself go for as late as possible 300tdi as mentioned above although the 200Tdi engine is every bit as capable.
Doh!...rswift beat me too it whilst I chatted before posting!
If you look at vehicle values lately then the TD5 engined vehicles always fetch less and are considered less desireable than the Tdi varients to many people.
I would, if choosing myself go for as late as possible 300tdi as mentioned above although the 200Tdi engine is every bit as capable.
Doh!...rswift beat me too it whilst I chatted before posting!
A late 300TDi or TD5...
If you don't need the space, then get yourself a 90 CSW.
In fact, one option you could look at is trying to find yourself a 50th Anniversary edition (4.0 V8 Auto...
).
The problem you'll have is trying to find something in reasonable condition, at a sensible price!
In my experience, I find that there are a lot of owners who will spend a fortune on 'bling' but not look after the basic vehicle. As such, when you look under the chequer-plate, you'll find a rotten chassis, bulkhead and poorly maintained internals. Add piss-poor driving styles to the mix (clutches used as an on/off switch!!) and you end up with a sloppy drive train too!
Thing is, when they come to sell, they'll have a far over-inflated view of what they think the car is worth and will want to charge a fortune for it.
TBH - If you're shopping around for a Defender, you might as well go to a dealer.
HTH
M
If you don't need the space, then get yourself a 90 CSW.
In fact, one option you could look at is trying to find yourself a 50th Anniversary edition (4.0 V8 Auto...
).The problem you'll have is trying to find something in reasonable condition, at a sensible price!
In my experience, I find that there are a lot of owners who will spend a fortune on 'bling' but not look after the basic vehicle. As such, when you look under the chequer-plate, you'll find a rotten chassis, bulkhead and poorly maintained internals. Add piss-poor driving styles to the mix (clutches used as an on/off switch!!) and you end up with a sloppy drive train too!
Thing is, when they come to sell, they'll have a far over-inflated view of what they think the car is worth and will want to charge a fortune for it.
TBH - If you're shopping around for a Defender, you might as well go to a dealer.
HTH
M
Thanks guys.
Good point about being a commercial as I live well within the emissions zone (SW14).
Not keen on a V8 even with LPG as I already have two petrol V8 cars and a diesel appeals. Noted about the 300 and 200 tdi engines, thanks.
I plan to visit two specialist dealers this weekend for a nosey, I'm told to look at chassis rust where it meets the body, is that right?
Good point about being a commercial as I live well within the emissions zone (SW14).
Not keen on a V8 even with LPG as I already have two petrol V8 cars and a diesel appeals. Noted about the 300 and 200 tdi engines, thanks.
I plan to visit two specialist dealers this weekend for a nosey, I'm told to look at chassis rust where it meets the body, is that right?
Yup. Check around the rear cross member in all the nooks and crannies and check the bulkhead outriggers too.
IMO, if i had the cash i would have one built to spec with a galv'd chassis and bulkhead. I regularly do a trawl of ebay and the classifieds on here and its surprising how many Lr's come up that have already had glav'd chassis's already fitted.
I used to live with my defender 90 in Bristol and battle the morning traffic there and loved it, folks get out of the way because they know that your car in almost indestructable! I remember going around a roundabout near Canada Wharf and little dude in a Micra decided he wanted to be in my lane whilst i was in it caught the rear wheel arch on my front bumper corner and peeled his rear wing open like a tin of corned beef! looked as if someone had taken a nibbler to the wing. I did laugh after he'd driven off because i'd quoted the highway code to him and offered to call the police.
Have fun shopping for your LR, a late model 300tdi would be the way to go. There are a few ROW (Rest of World) spec cars out there at the specialist dealers that have the 300tdi engine but with the interior of a TD5. Worth a look at. There was a series of articles written in one of the LR magazines by a guy who bought one and built it up for overlanding IIRC.
IMO, if i had the cash i would have one built to spec with a galv'd chassis and bulkhead. I regularly do a trawl of ebay and the classifieds on here and its surprising how many Lr's come up that have already had glav'd chassis's already fitted.
I used to live with my defender 90 in Bristol and battle the morning traffic there and loved it, folks get out of the way because they know that your car in almost indestructable! I remember going around a roundabout near Canada Wharf and little dude in a Micra decided he wanted to be in my lane whilst i was in it caught the rear wheel arch on my front bumper corner and peeled his rear wing open like a tin of corned beef! looked as if someone had taken a nibbler to the wing. I did laugh after he'd driven off because i'd quoted the highway code to him and offered to call the police.
Have fun shopping for your LR, a late model 300tdi would be the way to go. There are a few ROW (Rest of World) spec cars out there at the specialist dealers that have the 300tdi engine but with the interior of a TD5. Worth a look at. There was a series of articles written in one of the LR magazines by a guy who bought one and built it up for overlanding IIRC.
As others have said go for a TDi over a TD5, I'd probably say go for a later one with the R380 gearbox - it's far nicer than the older ones.
Have a good look at the chassis all over and the top of the front bulkhead around the front vents and door hinges.
As for useability my 90 300Tdi is perfectly useable I drove it from Perthshire to Devon in a day and then and back again a few days later earlier in the year with no problems except an empty wallet.
Have a good look at the chassis all over and the top of the front bulkhead around the front vents and door hinges.
As for useability my 90 300Tdi is perfectly useable I drove it from Perthshire to Devon in a day and then and back again a few days later earlier in the year with no problems except an empty wallet.
I have the 3.5 V8 CSW (county station wagon). I suggest you go for CSW spec, again make sure it's registered as an estate for London, although there is nothing wrong with the commercial ones the CSW is a bit less agricultural inside.
Check the chassis and the rear cross member, even at those prices you suggested paying. If you do a search for defenders with 'galvanized' in the criteria you will probably find a nice one with a new galv chassis, even better if it has a galv bulkhead too. Then you've got a defender which could potentially last you until your license expires.
I visit my folks who live miles from anywhere, If I stop over in winter I don't have a feeling of dread when I wake up and the road has disappeared under a foot of snow, quite the opposite! The only issue is if people know you can technically get anywhere there is no excuses for not turning up because of the weather!
They are much more thirsty than an equivilant soft roader like a RAV 4, my fathers 2.2 turbo gets an easy 50mpg average on a tank. I think you'd be lucky to get 35mpg from a 200-300tdi or TD5, most people seem to get mid twenties. I get about 22mpg on petrol with mine, 18mpg on LPG.
I think you'll get on really well with it as a daily, and if you like to tinker with your cars you'll get a lot of enjoyment from a defender. I look forward to the resulting thread if you purchase one.
Check the chassis and the rear cross member, even at those prices you suggested paying. If you do a search for defenders with 'galvanized' in the criteria you will probably find a nice one with a new galv chassis, even better if it has a galv bulkhead too. Then you've got a defender which could potentially last you until your license expires.
I visit my folks who live miles from anywhere, If I stop over in winter I don't have a feeling of dread when I wake up and the road has disappeared under a foot of snow, quite the opposite! The only issue is if people know you can technically get anywhere there is no excuses for not turning up because of the weather!
They are much more thirsty than an equivilant soft roader like a RAV 4, my fathers 2.2 turbo gets an easy 50mpg average on a tank. I think you'd be lucky to get 35mpg from a 200-300tdi or TD5, most people seem to get mid twenties. I get about 22mpg on petrol with mine, 18mpg on LPG.
I think you'll get on really well with it as a daily, and if you like to tinker with your cars you'll get a lot of enjoyment from a defender. I look forward to the resulting thread if you purchase one.
mrdelmonti said:
I'm intrigued as to why people are saying to avoid TD5s, I know a few people with TD5 Defenders and not had any problems (nothing more than a TDi would have suffered) and my TD5 Disco hasn't missed a beat.
Two reasons I can think of.Early ones s
t themselves when the oil pickup pipe fell off, by the time the oil light came on the bottom end was toast. LR finally started using threadlock because of this. And as far as I'm aware the ECU is under the passenger seat - ideal for wading with LR's tendancy to make 'totally watertight cars'.Oh & for luck, don't forget the injector loom that fills with oil which then trickles down the wires into the ECU.
Hooli said:
mrdelmonti said:
I'm intrigued as to why people are saying to avoid TD5s, I know a few people with TD5 Defenders and not had any problems (nothing more than a TDi would have suffered) and my TD5 Disco hasn't missed a beat.
Two reasons I can think of.Early ones s
t themselves when the oil pickup pipe fell off, by the time the oil light came on the bottom end was toast. LR finally started using threadlock because of this. And as far as I'm aware the ECU is under the passenger seat - ideal for wading with LR's tendancy to make 'totally watertight cars'.Oh & for luck, don't forget the injector loom that fills with oil which then trickles down the wires into the ECU.
That was several year ago. The newest TD5s are over 7yrs old now. If there was going to be a problem, it would have happened by now!!
As for water... Don't take it beyond the maximum recommended depth and you'll be fine... If you wantto drive something under water, get a submarine
M
Garlick said:
Not keen on a V8 even with LPG as I already have two petrol V8 cars and a diesel appeals.
I would hate to question the PH Maestro on his choice of motors, but have you ever explored the dark side of LPG. My Jag X350 (4.2 V8) is cheaper on fuel per journey than my Wife's 2 litre HDi Citroen. LPG is easily available, and near me (N.London/Herts) is 69p a litre.If you have 2 V8's, which of course I know about being an avid follower of all things PH, you sort of get used to a V8 performance being 'the norm' .. so when you end up finding 60mph a 'comfortable cruising speed' and still relatively crap MPG. (thinking 300Tdi ... I drove one back from Nice) .. not very PH .
Only my humble opinion.
Gassing Station | Off Road | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff