4x4 for winter, then sell on without loss?
Discussion
I've always wanted a Defender to sit alongside the Caterham.
Toying with the idea of a Defender for winter and taking the Caterham off the road. Can you buy a 4x4 for winter, so in a month or so, then use over the winter and sell early next year when the roads and weather are back to normal, and not loose money? Is that a realistic possibility?
I know that I'll have to insure it, hopefully not tax or MOT it if I can get the right one. I'm looking at ~5K maxish.
I'm guessing that there is a price premium added to 4x4's being sold at this time of year based on our last few winters!? So selling in the new year, would I automaticly loose this premium as such, like a soft top is cheap in winter but has an added premium come summer.
knowing me, I'll loose my shirt on it come resale and it'll be an awful experience!
Toying with the idea of a Defender for winter and taking the Caterham off the road. Can you buy a 4x4 for winter, so in a month or so, then use over the winter and sell early next year when the roads and weather are back to normal, and not loose money? Is that a realistic possibility?
I know that I'll have to insure it, hopefully not tax or MOT it if I can get the right one. I'm looking at ~5K maxish.
I'm guessing that there is a price premium added to 4x4's being sold at this time of year based on our last few winters!? So selling in the new year, would I automaticly loose this premium as such, like a soft top is cheap in winter but has an added premium come summer.
knowing me, I'll loose my shirt on it come resale and it'll be an awful experience!
Gingerbread Man said:
I've always wanted a Defender to sit alongside the Caterham.
Toying with the idea of a Defender for winter and taking the Caterham off the road. Can you buy a 4x4 for winter, so in a month or so, then use over the winter and sell early next year when the roads and weather are back to normal, and not loose money? Is that a realistic possibility?
I know that I'll have to insure it, hopefully not tax or MOT it if I can get the right one. I'm looking at ~5K maxish.
I'm guessing that there is a price premium added to 4x4's being sold at this time of year based on our last few winters!? So selling in the new year, would I automaticly loose this premium as such, like a soft top is cheap in winter but has an added premium come summer.
knowing me, I'll loose my shirt on it come resale and it'll be an awful experience!
Was chatting with a guy who did a paintless dent removal thing for me on a car I just bought. He works for a number of main dealers & also used car traders. He said that several of the used car lot have been snapping up every 4x4 they can get their hands on before the winter. If that's true then prices will already be hardening on these but then will soften again in the spring. After the last couple of winters and some of the forecasts there are for this coming winter, its not rocket science Toying with the idea of a Defender for winter and taking the Caterham off the road. Can you buy a 4x4 for winter, so in a month or so, then use over the winter and sell early next year when the roads and weather are back to normal, and not loose money? Is that a realistic possibility?
I know that I'll have to insure it, hopefully not tax or MOT it if I can get the right one. I'm looking at ~5K maxish.
I'm guessing that there is a price premium added to 4x4's being sold at this time of year based on our last few winters!? So selling in the new year, would I automaticly loose this premium as such, like a soft top is cheap in winter but has an added premium come summer.
knowing me, I'll loose my shirt on it come resale and it'll be an awful experience!
Why sell it after this winter?
What's to say next winter won't be just as bad, if not worse?
Although you're unlikely to lose out, I'd suggest once you've seen the advantage of a Defender offers through a bad winter you'll find yourself loathed to get rid of it on the basis of "Ooooh, it's only six months til the clocks go back...." etc.
Be warned though, they ain't as cheap to run as they might appear, and you'll find yourself making excuse after excuse for it, kidding yourself that it's not that impractical.....in much the same way you have to for a Caterham. I've got both, and find myself asking the "Should I sell it?" question twice a year....once in Autumn for the Seven, and again in Spring for the Defender.
Then every May and January I realise why I've kept hold of both.
What's to say next winter won't be just as bad, if not worse?
Although you're unlikely to lose out, I'd suggest once you've seen the advantage of a Defender offers through a bad winter you'll find yourself loathed to get rid of it on the basis of "Ooooh, it's only six months til the clocks go back...." etc.
Be warned though, they ain't as cheap to run as they might appear, and you'll find yourself making excuse after excuse for it, kidding yourself that it's not that impractical.....in much the same way you have to for a Caterham. I've got both, and find myself asking the "Should I sell it?" question twice a year....once in Autumn for the Seven, and again in Spring for the Defender.
Then every May and January I realise why I've kept hold of both.
The Caterham's my daily and only wagon. I've only one parking spot and it's outside. The 7 would have to remain in it leaving me having to find a spot on the road for a second car. To be honest, I'd love a landy, but couldn't run the two cars together practically.
Thought I could just enjoy it and put it to good use over winter where the 7's useless. Ideally yes, I'd own both! Wondered if I spent ~£5k on a Defender, would I loose much?
Roughly how much is the winter premium?
I won't be doing many miles. So I'd hope the running costs wouldn't be too great?
Thought I could just enjoy it and put it to good use over winter where the 7's useless. Ideally yes, I'd own both! Wondered if I spent ~£5k on a Defender, would I loose much?
Roughly how much is the winter premium?
I won't be doing many miles. So I'd hope the running costs wouldn't be too great?
If you can't afford/justify the Defender as a second car I'd say tread carefully. Chances are, despite all the best intentions when you buy it, come Spring you'll find it so useful you'll hang on to it, so perhaps set out with the idea of running the Defender as a daily drive with the Seven as a weekend motor. With that in mind, they aren't cheap to run as a daily drive so it might not work out.
In the short term you probably won't lose out as once they get to the £5k region, values pretty much stay put (unless you leave it in a barn). In the longer term it could end up expensive as I can see you'll either a) hang on to it or b) go through all this again in a year's time, and two year's time, and three year's time......
And parking it on the road? Make sure it's got good security. Big, visible security.
ETA:
Just seen this bit....
The hikes are more obvious in late model luxury buses, driven by school run mums with a "Throw money at it" approach to problem solving.
Just to make the decision easier
, here's mine last January......
...and this it it again in August.....
In the short term you probably won't lose out as once they get to the £5k region, values pretty much stay put (unless you leave it in a barn). In the longer term it could end up expensive as I can see you'll either a) hang on to it or b) go through all this again in a year's time, and two year's time, and three year's time......
And parking it on the road? Make sure it's got good security. Big, visible security.
ETA:
Just seen this bit....
Gingerbread Man said:
Roughly how much is the winter premium?
I'd say, on an older Defender, not much, as people who look at Defenders know they're good across the board, not just in snow. The hikes are more obvious in late model luxury buses, driven by school run mums with a "Throw money at it" approach to problem solving.
Just to make the decision easier
, here's mine last January.........and this it it again in August.....
Edited by anonymous-user on Monday 10th October 06:49
I get what you're saying about leaving it on the road etc and the costs of running a second car. If you have up to £5K to spend you'll get a real beaut' of an older Series vehicle. If you keep your eyes open and find a good Series 2 or early Series 3 (pre 73) then there's no need to worry about the tax issue - they're exempt. If you shop around enough you'll get a good deal on insurance, for example, i pay £175 fully comp on an 03 Freelander from swiftcover. i imagine that a series landy might cost less than that.
If you're used to a Caterham then you'll be used to wearing a decent coat in bad weather so an old series would be about the same. I agree with one of the previous posters that once you've got it you won't want to get rid of it as it'll prove to be too useful - trips to the tip, lugging garden stuff about, etc etc. If you want some detailed advice PM me and i'll send you my number for a chat. (i've had Landies, Rangies, Disco's, and Defenders for over 20 years and still have 4 of them).
If you're used to a Caterham then you'll be used to wearing a decent coat in bad weather so an old series would be about the same. I agree with one of the previous posters that once you've got it you won't want to get rid of it as it'll prove to be too useful - trips to the tip, lugging garden stuff about, etc etc. If you want some detailed advice PM me and i'll send you my number for a chat. (i've had Landies, Rangies, Disco's, and Defenders for over 20 years and still have 4 of them).
Crossflow Kid said:
I'd say, on an older Defender, not much, as people who look at Defenders know they're good across the board, not just in snow.
The hikes are more obvious in late model luxury buses, driven by school run mums with a "Throw money at it" approach to problem solving.
Just to make the decision easier, here's mine last January......
...and this it it again in August.....
Great photos!The hikes are more obvious in late model luxury buses, driven by school run mums with a "Throw money at it" approach to problem solving.
Just to make the decision easier
, here's mine last January.........and this it it again in August.....
Edited by Crossflow Kid on Monday 10th October 06:49
Timbuk2 said:
Personally after having two Defenders I would get something that had more comfortable seats and a proper heating system if you're planning on using it in winter.
.They are damn uncomfortable things to drive.
They are not the most reliable 4x4 you could buy either.
There are better 4x4 than LR, it's just that the UK has been brainwashed some what.
vette
uk_vette said:
Timbuk2 said:
Personally after having two Defenders I would get something that had more comfortable seats and a proper heating system if you're planning on using it in winter.
.They are damn uncomfortable things to drive.
They are not the most reliable 4x4 you could buy either.
There are better 4x4 than LR, it's just that the UK has been brainwashed some what.
vette
They are a bit uncomfortable to drive on long hauls, and being hand-assembled do need a little more TLC than plastic Jap crap, but then again this makes them more DIY-maintainable.
y2blade said:
uk_vette said:
.
They are damn uncomfortable things to drive.
They are not the most reliable 4x4 you could buy either.
There are better 4x4 than LR, it's just that the UK has been brainwashed some what.
vette
what would you recommend then? A Shogun or something?They are damn uncomfortable things to drive.
They are not the most reliable 4x4 you could buy either.
There are better 4x4 than LR, it's just that the UK has been brainwashed some what.
vette
However bang per buck wise you probably can't beat a Jeep. Just as robust and capable as a LR product and just as easy to work on. But can be bought for peanuts.
Gingerbread Man said:
The Caterham's my daily and only wagon. I've only one parking spot and it's outside. The 7 would have to remain in it leaving me having to find a spot on the road for a second car. To be honest, I'd love a landy, but couldn't run the two cars together practically.
Thought I could just enjoy it and put it to good use over winter where the 7's useless. Ideally yes, I'd own both! Wondered if I spent ~£5k on a Defender, would I loose much?
Roughly how much is the winter premium?
I won't be doing many miles. So I'd hope the running costs wouldn't be too great?
The trouble is, there is no answer to this.Thought I could just enjoy it and put it to good use over winter where the 7's useless. Ideally yes, I'd own both! Wondered if I spent ~£5k on a Defender, would I loose much?
Roughly how much is the winter premium?
I won't be doing many miles. So I'd hope the running costs wouldn't be too great?
1. You need to buy cheap enough
2. You need to sell it for as much or more
Doing either of these is far harder than it sounds, if it wasn't we'd all be rich. Also as it stands you are wanting to buy as prices are likely to be higher, then wanting to sell when prices drop. Logically that seems the wrong way round for making money or breaking even. Surely you should buy in the summer and sell in the winter if you want to do that.
Also, at £5k, how much movement in price do you think there will be? A £5k Defender isn't suddenly going to be worth £8k just because of a bit of snow.
If you truly want low risk, budget for £500-2000 tops.
Look at Discovery's, Cherokee's and Jimny's. Even something like a Maverick/Terrano. Any of these on winter tyres or off road tyres will be very capable in the snow. And due to the much lower purchase price, can't really lose much in value.
uk_vette said:
.
They are damn uncomfortable things to drive.
They are not the most reliable 4x4 you could buy either.
There are better 4x4 than LR, it's just that the UK has been brainwashed some what.
vette
He uses a caterham as a daily now!! I doubt he's used to much in the way of space or comfort They are damn uncomfortable things to drive.
They are not the most reliable 4x4 you could buy either.
There are better 4x4 than LR, it's just that the UK has been brainwashed some what.
vette
In terms of holding value you will struggle to better a Land Rover product but you have a gamble with reliability. The reliability(or lack of) isn't a myth, i know people who run them without any drama and only service it once a year but in the main i know plenty that suffer with reliability issues. Great trucks but i know people that sell them that don't understand the premium they command.
Unless you really NEED a 4x4 i'd get a cheap sub 1.3l runaround and fit winter tyres!
mcjimny said:
He uses a caterham as a daily now!! I doubt he's used to much in the way of space or comfort
In terms of holding value you will struggle to better a Land Rover product but you have a gamble with reliability. The reliability(or lack of) isn't a myth, i know people who run them without any drama and only service it once a year but in the main i know plenty that suffer with reliability issues. Great trucks but i know people that sell them that don't understand the premium they command.
Unless you really NEED a 4x4 i'd get a cheap sub 1.3l runaround and fit winter tyres!
Older LR products, esp Defender's are not unreliable in the main.In terms of holding value you will struggle to better a Land Rover product but you have a gamble with reliability. The reliability(or lack of) isn't a myth, i know people who run them without any drama and only service it once a year but in the main i know plenty that suffer with reliability issues. Great trucks but i know people that sell them that don't understand the premium they command.
Unless you really NEED a 4x4 i'd get a cheap sub 1.3l runaround and fit winter tyres!
They do suffer two things:
1. They are old school tech, so need more PLANNED for maintenance more often. This is expected so is not unreliability. If you maintain them, they will last and last.
2. They do suffer niggles. Silly little things like oil leaks and water leaks, creaks and noises.
But on the whole the oily bits are very reliable.
s_zigmond said:
Ignoring if the defender is a good car or not (personally I really like them but think they are over kill for winter use). You will only lose money buying now and selling in Summer. Prices have already gone up and will drop once winter is over.
Disagree. Defenders hold their value year-round as a lot of people buy them for their ability across everything, not just white stuff, and their general adaptability. Defenders might go up a bit now, but the trucks really going up in price are those that appeal to people who normally drive a Volvo, BMW or Audi and want the same but with 4WD.
300bhp/ton said:
Older LR products, esp Defender's are not unreliable in the main.
They do suffer two things:
1. They are old school tech, so need more PLANNED for maintenance more often. This is expected so is not unreliability. If you maintain them, they will last and last.
2. They do suffer niggles. Silly little things like oil leaks and water leaks, creaks and noises.
But on the whole the oily bits are very reliable.
Spot on. The only thing ever to go wrong with my 90 is the stupid, overly complicated BMW-inspired ECU. Read the Landy sub-forum and most of the complaints are about electric seats, air suspension or Bluetooth connectivity, none of which will actually stop the vehicle.They do suffer two things:
1. They are old school tech, so need more PLANNED for maintenance more often. This is expected so is not unreliability. If you maintain them, they will last and last.
2. They do suffer niggles. Silly little things like oil leaks and water leaks, creaks and noises.
But on the whole the oily bits are very reliable.
Crossflow Kid said:
uk_vette said:
Timbuk2 said:
Personally after having two Defenders I would get something that had more comfortable seats and a proper heating system if you're planning on using it in winter.
.They are damn uncomfortable things to drive.
They are not the most reliable 4x4 you could buy either.
There are better 4x4 than LR, it's just that the UK has been brainwashed some what.
vette
They are a bit uncomfortable to drive on long hauls, and being hand-assembled do need a little more TLC than plastic Jap crap, but then again this makes them more DIY-maintainable.
My Jeep Cherokee 4.0 Auto is a far nicer place to be than any landrover with heated seats, comfy chairs, electric most things etc.
Defenders are great looking cars, which is primarily why I bought mine, but after living with it for a while realised I wanted something less extreme.
Just trying to help the OP make the right choice
Timbuk2 said:
Not exactly a bashing, I was purely stating that after having experience of Defenders and other vehicles and as he wants a winter use vehicle perhaps something else would be more suitable.
My Jeep Cherokee 4.0 Auto is a far nicer place to be than any landrover with heated seats, comfy chairs, electric most things etc.
Defenders are great looking cars, which is primarily why I bought mine, but after living with it for a while realised I wanted something less extreme.
Just trying to help the OP make the right choice
also a hell of a lot cheaper.My Jeep Cherokee 4.0 Auto is a far nicer place to be than any landrover with heated seats, comfy chairs, electric most things etc.
Defenders are great looking cars, which is primarily why I bought mine, but after living with it for a while realised I wanted something less extreme.
Just trying to help the OP make the right choice
and they come without the very real problem of targetted thefts
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