Discussion
'sup,
I have a fancy to get myself a midi-usb cable. I have a digital piano (full-size weighted keys and midi etc.) and a laptop and fancy hooking the two together to make popular tunes (or unpopular as the case will probably be). I only want to do it as a "hobby" as I used to do it years ago and enjoyed it.
So - is there anything I should watch out for? Most midi-usb cables seem to be in the £25-£50 range but I've found one on Amazon for approx. £10. Will this be rubbish?
Also, what sequencing software should I be looking at? I'd like to be able to use loops/samples/emulated synths and so on. Is there a good source to access these?
Any advice, really, would be appreciated about the general set up for this kind of thing. No need for mics as I don't intended to be singing! Neither do I need monitors as my headphones will be plenty good enough for my "talent".
Cheers,
Phil.
I have a fancy to get myself a midi-usb cable. I have a digital piano (full-size weighted keys and midi etc.) and a laptop and fancy hooking the two together to make popular tunes (or unpopular as the case will probably be). I only want to do it as a "hobby" as I used to do it years ago and enjoyed it.
So - is there anything I should watch out for? Most midi-usb cables seem to be in the £25-£50 range but I've found one on Amazon for approx. £10. Will this be rubbish?
Also, what sequencing software should I be looking at? I'd like to be able to use loops/samples/emulated synths and so on. Is there a good source to access these?
Any advice, really, would be appreciated about the general set up for this kind of thing. No need for mics as I don't intended to be singing! Neither do I need monitors as my headphones will be plenty good enough for my "talent".
Cheers,
Phil.
Grab yourself a copy of Computer Music magazine, they normally have a whole suite of free applicaitons on the cover disc plus tutorials for those apps. http://www.musicradar.com/computermusic
They also tend to have demos of most of the main commercial sequencer apps for you to try.
I mostly do live recording not midi stuff so what suits me may not suit you. Logic and Cubase are popular as is Ableton Live, Reason and Sonar
Not sure about midi to usb. Try the cheap one, it's only £10. You are not transmitting audio so as long as the singla reaches the PC not sure what spending more will do for you.
They also tend to have demos of most of the main commercial sequencer apps for you to try.
I mostly do live recording not midi stuff so what suits me may not suit you. Logic and Cubase are popular as is Ableton Live, Reason and Sonar
Not sure about midi to usb. Try the cheap one, it's only £10. You are not transmitting audio so as long as the singla reaches the PC not sure what spending more will do for you.
I have no idea whether it's a signal quality issue, a non-midi issue or what, but I had a keyboard hooked up to the PC via USB and using Ableton, there was sufficient of a delay between me hitting the key and the PC registering the note to make it unusable. Probably significantly < half a semitone but enough to be no good.
Was suggested at the time that maybe I needed a midi interface between the two but never got around to trying that?
Was suggested at the time that maybe I needed a midi interface between the two but never got around to trying that?
Bullett said:
Grab yourself a copy of Computer Music magazine, they normally have a whole suite of free applicaitons on the cover disc plus tutorials for those apps. http://www.musicradar.com/computermusic
They also tend to have demos of most of the main commercial sequencer apps for you to try.
I mostly do live recording not midi stuff so what suits me may not suit you. Logic and Cubase are popular as is Ableton Live, Reason and Sonar
Not sure about midi to usb. Try the cheap one, it's only £10. You are not transmitting audio so as long as the singla reaches the PC not sure what spending more will do for you.
Will do. Thanks for the info!They also tend to have demos of most of the main commercial sequencer apps for you to try.
I mostly do live recording not midi stuff so what suits me may not suit you. Logic and Cubase are popular as is Ableton Live, Reason and Sonar
Not sure about midi to usb. Try the cheap one, it's only £10. You are not transmitting audio so as long as the singla reaches the PC not sure what spending more will do for you.
Agree re: the cable. My only thought was lag between striking the key and the MIDI singal getting to the laptop - but with quantizing and my (lack of) ability, I can't see that being a problem!
C8PPO said:
I have no idea whether it's a signal quality issue, a non-midi issue or what, but I had a keyboard hooked up to the PC via USB and using Ableton, there was sufficient of a delay between me hitting the key and the PC registering the note to make it unusable. Probably significantly < half a semitone but enough to be no good.
Was suggested at the time that maybe I needed a midi interface between the two but never got around to trying that?
So the keyboard had USB, you mean? Unfortunately my piano pre-dates USB so MIDI is the only option.Was suggested at the time that maybe I needed a midi interface between the two but never got around to trying that?
Hmmm. Not sure what to do now.
C8PPO said:
I have no idea whether it's a signal quality issue, a non-midi issue or what, but I had a keyboard hooked up to the PC via USB and using Ableton, there was sufficient of a delay between me hitting the key and the PC registering the note to make it unusable. Probably significantly < half a semitone but enough to be no good.
Was suggested at the time that maybe I needed a midi interface between the two but never got around to trying that?
A semitone is a measure of pitch rather than time - you don't mean that the computer was changing the pitch of your notes, do you?Was suggested at the time that maybe I needed a midi interface between the two but never got around to trying that?
It sounds like lag, which is usually an audio driver problem (assuming that your PC isn't dead slow).
BTW, I'm also assuming your keyboard was a MIDI to USB keyboard and designed to work that way? What model keyboard?
Disastrous said:
C8PPO said:
I have no idea whether it's a signal quality issue, a non-midi issue or what, but I had a keyboard hooked up to the PC via USB and using Ableton, there was sufficient of a delay between me hitting the key and the PC registering the note to make it unusable. Probably significantly < half a semitone but enough to be no good.
Was suggested at the time that maybe I needed a midi interface between the two but never got around to trying that?
A semitone is a measure of pitch rather than time - you don't mean that the computer was changing the pitch of your notes, do you?Was suggested at the time that maybe I needed a midi interface between the two but never got around to trying that?
It sounds like lag, which is usually an audio driver problem (assuming that your PC isn't dead slow).
BTW, I'm also assuming your keyboard was a MIDI to USB keyboard and designed to work that way? What model keyboard?
The keyboard was (is, still in the loft) a Behringer but I can't recall the model. I know very little about these things!
Sounds like lag, either in interpreting the signals or translating them into audio. As I understand it standard PC soundcards are quite slow, you need faster drivers and low latency ASIO or WDM drivers.
So the signal path is something like keyboard - cable - usb - drivers - sequencer - softsynth - drivers - soundcard - speakers.
Playing live midi via a PC is quite difficult and these delays are common. Once you have recorded it it should playback ok and in synch.
So the signal path is something like keyboard - cable - usb - drivers - sequencer - softsynth - drivers - soundcard - speakers.
Playing live midi via a PC is quite difficult and these delays are common. Once you have recorded it it should playback ok and in synch.
RedLeicester said:
More likely to be audio latency.
Agreed. You need to get the best ASIO drivers for the soundcard (as opposed to the usual Windows drivers). If there are no 'official' ASIO drivers then install ASIO4ALL (www.asio4all.com) and set ableton to use the ASIO4ALL as the audio driver. Even w/out sodding about with settings, you should notice that any latency has gone.dudleybloke said:
another vote for ASIO4ALL here.
another option though more expensive is to invest in a zero latency external sound card but your probably better off buying a new keyboard with usb built in.
A zero latency card will not sort the problem. AIUI, all they have is the means to switch the input of the card directly to the output so if an audio signal was being processed with VSTs in the PC, you can monitor the pre-FX signal as it occurs. As soon as you want to hear the signal with FX added, or are playing a VST Instrument, you immediately get latency again.another option though more expensive is to invest in a zero latency external sound card but your probably better off buying a new keyboard with usb built in.
With ASIO4ALL, I have managed to get latency down to about 20ms w/out any glitches or heavy CPU overhead on my studio PC which uses the onboard soundcard and Windows 2000. Unless you're Rick Wakeman, 20ms is to all intents and purposes "instantaneous".
RedLeicester said:
20ms is horrific. A half decent playuer will notice anything much over 6ms, even a casual player is likely to have issues much over 12.
I'd go and check those figures...
I tell a lie, I've got it down to 8ms. I'd go and check those figures...
You do need to be a very good player to notice 12, though. IME, obviously.
As you pick up speed and add more complexity, latency can be a real pain in the bum
(God the enconding on that site has mashed the file!)
(God the enconding on that site has mashed the file!)
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