Buying a Piano

[jazzybee]

Hi all. I am a Piano novice I am afraid, but my daughter has become quite the artist and it has now become time to buy a 'proper' piano and she cannot go further with her keyboard alone. She is at Grade 1 now at age 10, but the promise she is showing she should be able to get to Grade 5 within a couple of years - according to those who know.

Now, I have no idea how local piano dealers work - I am being offered Yamaha U100 between 18 and 23 years old for £2800 and £2400 respectively. 5yrs warrenty and delivery included.

The other piano my daughter likes is a 20 year old Kawai, its even smaller, so better suited to our compact house. This is also a shiney Mid tone wood colour which I understand is less desirable to black. I have been offered this for £2150 after a 10% discount. This is on the same terms but from another dealer.

What I want to know is what margin do these dealers typically operate at, and how negotiable are the prices generally? With cars, I have a fairly good grasp, but have not got a clue with Pianos. What is the resale value like when it comes time to sell? The dealers don't seem to behave like sales people I am used to, i.e. looking to do a deal.

Some pointers would be great. Thanks

[Tangent Police]

You are right in thinking that a better instrument will be more of a pleasure to play and get used more. Cut corners and you will pay in the upkeep, maintenance. Tuning is a constant menace.

I'd go for a Yamaha Upright 10000% of the time.

Having said, there is nothing worse than a beautiful piano that doesn't get used by a spoilt kid.

I would consider a good electric piano. The slightly lighter action will be more young finger friendly, they don't go out of tune, don't dislike your central heating.

ALSO you can plug headphones into an electric piano!!!!! Scales and practising can be noisy, even 20 years down the line.

Edit, for an acoustic piano, I'd buy a very new S/H one. That way you let them take the depreciation hit.

Edited by Tangent Police on Wednesday 18th November 21:45

[bigandclever]

Just a thought (depends how cheap you are!)... the likes of gumtree and loot and whatnot always have free pianos in them.

Isleworth http://www.gumtree.com/london/33/49402133.html

Edmonton http://www.gumtree.com/london/69/49045269.html

Kings Cross http://www.gumtree.com/london/40/48402440.html

And on and on... you get the drift

[jazzybee]

Tangent Police said:

You are right in thinking that a better instrument will be more of a pleasure to play and get used more. Cut corners and you will pay in the upkeep, maintenance. Tuning is a constant menace.

I'd go for a Yamaha Upright 10000% of the time.

Having said, there is nothing worse than a beautiful piano that doesn't get used by a spoilt kid.

I would consider a good electric piano. The slightly lighter action will be more young finger friendly, they don't go out of tune, don't dislike your central heating.

ALSO you can plug headphones into an electric piano!!!!! Scales and practising can be noisy, even 20 years down the line.

Edit, for an acoustic piano, I'd buy a very new S/H one. That way you let them take the depreciation hit.

Edited by Tangent Police on Wednesday 18th November 21:45

Thanks - I made sure we have gone long enough for it not to be short-term interest and she is well beyond the scales, playing pop and rock classics which is what she enjoys - so it is nice to listen to (although she has asked me to buy sheet music for the latest Hannah Montana song - to which I said no ;-))

[jazzybee]

bigandclever said:

Just a thought (depends how cheap you are!)... the likes of gumtree and loot and whatnot always have free pianos in them.

Isleworth http://www.gumtree.com/london/33/49402133.html

Edmonton http://www.gumtree.com/london/69/49045269.html

Kings Cross http://www.gumtree.com/london/40/48402440.html

And on and on... you get the drift

Thanks for that - I will keep an eye out. I don't intend to have one in the house till Jan anyway.

[thehawk]

jazzybee said:

Tangent Police said:

You are right in thinking that a better instrument will be more of a pleasure to play and get used more. Cut corners and you will pay in the upkeep, maintenance. Tuning is a constant menace.

I'd go for a Yamaha Upright 10000% of the time.

Having said, there is nothing worse than a beautiful piano that doesn't get used by a spoilt kid.

I would consider a good electric piano. The slightly lighter action will be more young finger friendly, they don't go out of tune, don't dislike your central heating.

ALSO you can plug headphones into an electric piano!!!!! Scales and practising can be noisy, even 20 years down the line.

Edit, for an acoustic piano, I'd buy a very new S/H one. That way you let them take the depreciation hit.

Edited by Tangent Police on Wednesday 18th November 21:45

Thanks - I made sure we have gone long enough for it not to be short-term interest and she is well beyond the scales, playing pop and rock classics which is what she enjoys - so it is nice to listen to (although she has asked me to buy sheet music for the latest Hannah Montana song - to which I said no ;-))

How on earth can she be beyond scales when she is only Grade 1?

[Sim89]

Tangent Police said:

You are right in thinking that a better instrument will be more of a pleasure to play and get used more. Cut corners and you will pay in the upkeep, maintenance. Tuning is a constant menace.

I'd go for a Yamaha Upright 10000% of the time.

Having said, there is nothing worse than a beautiful piano that doesn't get used by a spoilt kid.

I would consider a good electric piano. The slightly lighter action will be more young finger friendly, they don't go out of tune, don't dislike your central heating.

ALSO you can plug headphones into an electric piano!!!!! Scales and practising can be noisy, even 20 years down the line.

Edit, for an acoustic piano, I'd buy a very new S/H one. That way you let them take the depreciation hit.

Edited by Tangent Police on Wednesday 18th November 21:45

Would agree with the first part, U100's are superb pianos. I spent nowhere near that much on my piano but the cost of tuning (2/3 times a year depending on environment, how its played etc) and replacing bits does cost over time. I was expecting this with a 70/80 year old instrument. You can definitely get fantastic pianos for a lot less.

However, I would disagree with electric pianos, however good they may be, never the real thing, if you want to learn piano (and the circumstances are viable ), play a piano. I would say the practising of scales etc is a small price to pay for having a beautiful instrument and experiencing a real piano.

[Tangent Police]

Sim89 said:

Tangent Police said:

You are right in thinking that a better instrument will be more of a pleasure to play and get used more. Cut corners and you will pay in the upkeep, maintenance. Tuning is a constant menace.

I'd go for a Yamaha Upright 10000% of the time.

Having said, there is nothing worse than a beautiful piano that doesn't get used by a spoilt kid.

I would consider a good electric piano. The slightly lighter action will be more young finger friendly, they don't go out of tune, don't dislike your central heating.

ALSO you can plug headphones into an electric piano!!!!! Scales and practising can be noisy, even 20 years down the line.

Edit, for an acoustic piano, I'd buy a very new S/H one. That way you let them take the depreciation hit.

Edited by Tangent Police on Wednesday 18th November 21:45

Would agree with the first part, U100's are superb pianos. I spent nowhere near that much on my piano but the cost of tuning (2/3 times a year depending on environment, how its played etc) and replacing bits does cost over time. I was expecting this with a 70/80 year old instrument. You can definitely get fantastic pianos for a lot less.

However, I would disagree with electric pianos, however good they may be, never the real thing, if you want to learn piano (and the circumstances are viable ), play a piano. I would say the practising of scales etc is a small price to pay for having a beautiful instrument and experiencing a real piano.

Having a re-read of the OP, A Yamaha upright is the way to go. I'd always go for the biggest piano I could stomach. It's nice to have decent bass notes. Little uprights can be clonky.

With regards to mechanical vs electric. I've gigged a mechanical electric piano (Rhodes) for years and decided recently, after not playing (in a group) for several years to go digital, judging by the latest kit. It's come a long way and really, I don't want to be lugging heavy stuff, repairing it, etc. It comes down to cost vs sound. I really don't think that anything apart from the look is too different. Seriously, with the right speakers, you could close your eyes and be playing a concert grand. It sounds utterly insane, but it's true.

Pianos are a much of a muchness. Some of them share actions, frames, etc, if you look closely, Yamaha just seem to be "better". The quality is really there. I've got a mate with a huge piano warehouse in Newcastle and having played everything, I always come back to a Yamaha upright, the action is just right. I prefer it to the grand actions. It's nice to have a lovely sound, as long as it's perfectly in tune, I would choose on the action alone and take the best, regardless if it had been used as a saw bench.

Yamahas are consistently good, action wise. I've never bumped into a bad one. They hold their value well, good choice.

Having said, if the daughter wants the Kawai, go for that one. After all, she will be the one playing it.

Ramble moan......good luck

[jbudgie]

Anyone recommend a good cheap electric keyboard for a beginner ?

[Meeja]

jbudgie said:

Anyone recommend a good cheap electric keyboard for a beginner ?

Have a look around in classifeds/eBay/Gumtree etc for a Yamaha Clavinova PF 100.

An example of a Gumtree one here: http://norwich.gumtree.com/norwich/74/46050974.htm...

At the price you will end up paying, it would be a superb starting point for a beginner.

I still have one - although these days it is used as a MIDI controller keyboard rather than a piano... electric/electronic pianos can be good, and sometimes very, very good.... but IMHO there is nothing like the real thing - and would echo the comments about Yamaha uprights

Edited by Meeja on Sunday 22 November 20:33

[jbudgie]

Thank you, any more recommendations ?

[anonymous-user]

Depends how much you want to pay and if you want weighted/Hammer action, semi weighted or unweighted keys.

A good Digital Stage Piano with weighted Hammer Action (like a real piano), is the Korg SP-250, that is £560 though.

I think there is a Yamaha for about £180 with semi weighted keys if you are looking for something a little less expensive.

Check out www.dv247.com. they usually have a wide range on their web site.

Edited by anonymous-user on Monday 23 November 19:16

[hairyben]

My girlfreind says she prefers a yamaha to a steinway. Like a lot of musicians and their instruments there's a lot of personal opinion in the choice. I'd be tempted to go for a digital, if only so you don't get driven up the wall with the practise routines. She uses a yamaha digital currently and says it's fine, and she plays to a very high level.