Discussion
It's a mystery to me, why so many music 'connoisseurs'* seem to not rate Phil Collins, some in fact claim to hate him and his music. Even if you don't particularly like his tunes, shirley you've got to admit that he's extraordinarily talented? He's a singer, songwriter and multi-instrumentalist with a huge back-catalogue of hits and quality output. He can also act, and he's apparently a bloody nice bloke. (I haven't met him, but I know some who have).
Have pondered this for some time, watching this again this morning made me post this:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Rbb71r66Yuc
So what's the problem? Too commercial or somesuch snobby drivel?
* That fella with the circa 1950s hair, who used to present 'Never Mind the Buzzcocks' is a notable example.
Have pondered this for some time, watching this again this morning made me post this:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Rbb71r66Yuc
So what's the problem? Too commercial or somesuch snobby drivel?
* That fella with the circa 1950s hair, who used to present 'Never Mind the Buzzcocks' is a notable example.
It has become trendy to hate all those 80s bands - the sort that did Live Aid and Princess Diana liked. On top of that, Phil specialises in Marmite music like prog rock and radio friendly power ballads.
Then there was a few tabloid stories including the famous 'dumping his wife by fax' - didn't make him look good.
And I suppose he was always in the charts in the 80s and 90s and people may have got tired of him.
I like his voice.
Then there was a few tabloid stories including the famous 'dumping his wife by fax' - didn't make him look good.
And I suppose he was always in the charts in the 80s and 90s and people may have got tired of him.
I like his voice.
I agree.
Been a fan from when he was unfashionable. His early and middle stuff is great. Plenty of great Genesis albums too, and loved them at Old Trafford last year.
I think his albums started to go downhill from Both Sides of the story. His sound up to that point was 'real instruments', electric guitar etc.
That album was recorded as 'demo' material on synths, and they never rerecorded live instruments, so even despite his drumming ability a lot of the tracks are even synth drums. Some good tracks, but just 'fair'.
The next album was a bit worse.
I must say though that his last album sounds great. It is recorded and engineered by a guy I worked with a while back, he is an audio genius. Listen to songs on it compared to the previous albums back to back and you will see what I mean.
I heard on the radio recently, he has retired.
I watched the Sky Arts 'Songbook' or whatever it is with him, performing old tracks 'unplugged'. Compared to the live act, he couldn't hit the high notes, or remember the keyboard parts to his own songs. A shame to see, as in his heyday he was a great performer.
Been a fan from when he was unfashionable. His early and middle stuff is great. Plenty of great Genesis albums too, and loved them at Old Trafford last year.
I think his albums started to go downhill from Both Sides of the story. His sound up to that point was 'real instruments', electric guitar etc.
That album was recorded as 'demo' material on synths, and they never rerecorded live instruments, so even despite his drumming ability a lot of the tracks are even synth drums. Some good tracks, but just 'fair'.
The next album was a bit worse.
I must say though that his last album sounds great. It is recorded and engineered by a guy I worked with a while back, he is an audio genius. Listen to songs on it compared to the previous albums back to back and you will see what I mean.
I heard on the radio recently, he has retired.
I watched the Sky Arts 'Songbook' or whatever it is with him, performing old tracks 'unplugged'. Compared to the live act, he couldn't hit the high notes, or remember the keyboard parts to his own songs. A shame to see, as in his heyday he was a great performer.
I don't like him because..
I don't rate his drumming.
He has a horrible whiney singing voice.
No song he has ever written (that I have heard) has impressed me even a little bit....
...and with these things in mind, I tire of people telling me how good he is.
However, this is, of course, just my own opinion and people are quite entitled to theirs.
I don't rate his drumming.
He has a horrible whiney singing voice.
No song he has ever written (that I have heard) has impressed me even a little bit....
...and with these things in mind, I tire of people telling me how good he is.
However, this is, of course, just my own opinion and people are quite entitled to theirs.
Ferg said:
I don't like him because..
I don't rate his drumming.
He has a horrible whiney singing voice.
No song he has ever written (that I have heard) has impressed me even a little bit....
...and with these things in mind, I tire of people telling me how good he is.
However, this is, of course, just my own opinion and people are quite entitled to theirs.
Not even the drumming he did as a highly regarded session musician?I don't rate his drumming.
He has a horrible whiney singing voice.
No song he has ever written (that I have heard) has impressed me even a little bit....
...and with these things in mind, I tire of people telling me how good he is.
However, this is, of course, just my own opinion and people are quite entitled to theirs.
Or the songs he won Grammy awards or Oscars for?
JustinP1 said:
Ferg said:
I don't like him because..
I don't rate his drumming.
He has a horrible whiney singing voice.
No song he has ever written (that I have heard) has impressed me even a little bit....
...and with these things in mind, I tire of people telling me how good he is.
However, this is, of course, just my own opinion and people are quite entitled to theirs.
Not even the drumming he did as a highly regarded session musician?I don't rate his drumming.
He has a horrible whiney singing voice.
No song he has ever written (that I have heard) has impressed me even a little bit....
...and with these things in mind, I tire of people telling me how good he is.
However, this is, of course, just my own opinion and people are quite entitled to theirs.
Or the songs he won Grammy awards or Oscars for?
I think it's very dangerous to allow yourself to be told what to like where any 'art' is concerned. I have NO time for 'awards ceremonies' at all and 'highly regarded' is such an unquantifiable concept it's pretty much useless.
Ferg said:
JustinP1 said:
Ferg said:
I don't like him because..
I don't rate his drumming.
He has a horrible whiney singing voice.
No song he has ever written (that I have heard) has impressed me even a little bit....
...and with these things in mind, I tire of people telling me how good he is.
However, this is, of course, just my own opinion and people are quite entitled to theirs.
Not even the drumming he did as a highly regarded session musician?I don't rate his drumming.
He has a horrible whiney singing voice.
No song he has ever written (that I have heard) has impressed me even a little bit....
...and with these things in mind, I tire of people telling me how good he is.
However, this is, of course, just my own opinion and people are quite entitled to theirs.
Or the songs he won Grammy awards or Oscars for?
I think it's very dangerous to allow yourself to be told what to like where any 'art' is concerned. I have NO time for 'awards ceremonies' at all and 'highly regarded' is such an unquantifiable concept it's pretty much useless.
I would actually say though that compared to the Brits which has really descended from a music industry puppet to a farce, the Grammys are actually sensibly nominated and awarded on achievement over straight popularity.
Whilst with any art there is of course a case of personal preference. I may hate Leonardo Da Vinci's work for example, but I may have a lot of respect and acknowledgement for his skills.
You may hate the slappy headed wonder, but there is no denying that there are a lot of people who respect his skills as either a songwriter, drummer, keyboard player, singer, or producer.
JustinP1 said:
.... there is no denying that there are a lot of people who respect his skills as either a songwriter, drummer, keyboard player, singer, or producer.
Indeed. I don't, but then these things are always down to personal taste.
I personally think that people should look harder for musicians (and other artists) who AREN'T pushed down their throats as the 'darlings of the industry' and find the real gems that lurk probably within their local music scene.
Ferg said:
I don't like him because..
I don't rate his drumming.
He has a horrible whiney singing voice.
No song he has ever written (that I have heard) has impressed me even a little bit....
...and with these things in mind, I tire of people telling me how good he is.
However, this is, of course, just my own opinion and people are quite entitled to theirs.
Phil doesn't rate your plumbing either.......I don't rate his drumming.
He has a horrible whiney singing voice.
No song he has ever written (that I have heard) has impressed me even a little bit....
...and with these things in mind, I tire of people telling me how good he is.
However, this is, of course, just my own opinion and people are quite entitled to theirs.
Quite like his voice, thing he's very good on the drums, done some cheesy songs though and can come across as being a little naff.
Do like this drum duet: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=sA3rJXV4R4E
Do like this drum duet: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=sA3rJXV4R4E
and all that......
Phil Collins was a superb drummer in his day - although his day was in the time of Genesis before Peter Gabriel left. There aren't many drummers who could keep beat to 9,8
I did like Genesis for many, many years, but even I have to admit that Gabriel was the better singer. And Collins' first couple of solo albums were not at all bad, but by the time of "But Seriously..." it was going rapidly downhill and "Another Day in Paradise" really is a vessel of excrement, and the Lion King stuff really is poop.
But, on balance, I think he's done more good than bad. He's just lost his way of late.
I did like Genesis for many, many years, but even I have to admit that Gabriel was the better singer. And Collins' first couple of solo albums were not at all bad, but by the time of "But Seriously..." it was going rapidly downhill and "Another Day in Paradise" really is a vessel of excrement, and the Lion King stuff really is poop.
But, on balance, I think he's done more good than bad. He's just lost his way of late.
Edited by JonRB on Wednesday 11th June 22:06
Interesting comments from "The Genesis Discography". If you haven't read it, and have a spare few hours, it's fascinating (or, at least, is to someone who like Genesis). Google for it.
Genesis Discography said:
Phil Collins, poor old Phil, just lost it. First of all, he quit playing drums. His best songs through
the years were always founded on drums. The drums were the songs. They gave them their
character. Even his early drum machine patterns were innovative. Starting at about But Seriously,
Phil put down his drumsticks and quit being a drummer. This sucked the life out of his songs.
Secondly, Phil quit writing good melodies. He used to, on the first three solo albums, write very
interesting melodies, but the recent stuff has been very flat and uninspired. Third, Phil’s heart was
obviously not in Genesis after Invisible Touch. To an outsider looking in, WCD appeared to be Phil
going through the motions. He did the right thing by leaving. Lastly, Phil’s backing band has gone
from awesome to awful. The likes of Peter Robinson, Mo Foster, and others have been replaced by
technically competent but uninspired folks. And Phil has added the almost obligatory but still
hard to take backing vocalists. Phil has always been Genesis, at least to the record buying public
who can’t really tell his solo career apart from Genesis, and without him the new post-Phil album
went exactly where I thought it would, nowhere.
the years were always founded on drums. The drums were the songs. They gave them their
character. Even his early drum machine patterns were innovative. Starting at about But Seriously,
Phil put down his drumsticks and quit being a drummer. This sucked the life out of his songs.
Secondly, Phil quit writing good melodies. He used to, on the first three solo albums, write very
interesting melodies, but the recent stuff has been very flat and uninspired. Third, Phil’s heart was
obviously not in Genesis after Invisible Touch. To an outsider looking in, WCD appeared to be Phil
going through the motions. He did the right thing by leaving. Lastly, Phil’s backing band has gone
from awesome to awful. The likes of Peter Robinson, Mo Foster, and others have been replaced by
technically competent but uninspired folks. And Phil has added the almost obligatory but still
hard to take backing vocalists. Phil has always been Genesis, at least to the record buying public
who can’t really tell his solo career apart from Genesis, and without him the new post-Phil album
went exactly where I thought it would, nowhere.
Edited by JonRB on Wednesday 11th June 22:16
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