Can I Make a Living As a Professional Musician?
Discussion
I occasionally look at the Abbey road Studios web cam.
https://www.earthcam.com/world/england/london/abbe...
The entrance to the studios in in the bottom right of the screen.
Quite a few musicians go in and out (not surprising, really) and I wondered how viable is a career as a professional musician?
How much would/could a player of average ability make?
https://www.earthcam.com/world/england/london/abbe...
The entrance to the studios in in the bottom right of the screen.
Quite a few musicians go in and out (not surprising, really) and I wondered how viable is a career as a professional musician?
How much would/could a player of average ability make?
I assume being a musician is like being an actor, 2% of people can make a living at it? Years ago I decided to have guitar lessons and the guy teaching me was freaking amazing. I had just purchased a new guitar and he tuned it for me and played it for 30 seconds and I remember thinking "This guitar is never going to sound that good ever again"
He had more talent in his little finger than I would ever have playing the guitar and he lived with his parents still.
My partners cousin is a singer who has been in lots of international touring shows and she used to have to work part time in a pub when she was home.
He had more talent in his little finger than I would ever have playing the guitar and he lived with his parents still.
My partners cousin is a singer who has been in lots of international touring shows and she used to have to work part time in a pub when she was home.
to make a living with a average ability? probably nothing. as a session musician you would need to be well above average and read music (usually)
the only way to make a living as an average musician is to get lucky and be in a band that becomes famous and makes money from touring extensively and also if you write some songs that you have copyright on.
like many things, to make a living you need to be more than average. look at sports you have the stars who make millions but they are the ones scoring the goals or winning the tennis grand slam or the F1 race. yes ok, everyone else doing the sports professionally are getting paid ok but you're say 250 in the world at tennis you may make hundreds of thousands a year but you have multiple air fares, hotels, trainers, physios etc., not much left at the end of the year.
I was watching an interesting video a few weeks ago, made by one of the top session players in Nashville (Justin Ostrander). He explained how much him and other session players made, either on the road with top artists or as session players in the studio. I was pretty shocked.
Those out on the road with stars such as Taylor Swift were paid in the hundreds per gig, from which they usually had to pay expenses. From what he said in the video it seemed like the pay was akin to what teachers earn.
There’s a reasons why top session players try to gain a large following on YouTube and launch their own teaching courses.
If you want to get rich playing music then it’ll be through royalties and large full-scale tours. It won’t happen through playing someone else’s music.
Saying that, I’d still give up the careers I’ve had to play guitar for a living.
Those out on the road with stars such as Taylor Swift were paid in the hundreds per gig, from which they usually had to pay expenses. From what he said in the video it seemed like the pay was akin to what teachers earn.
There’s a reasons why top session players try to gain a large following on YouTube and launch their own teaching courses.
If you want to get rich playing music then it’ll be through royalties and large full-scale tours. It won’t happen through playing someone else’s music.
Saying that, I’d still give up the careers I’ve had to play guitar for a living.
It's very hard to make it work.
You need to be a very good musician across a range of different instruments and be willing to work across all different types of genres not just the ones you like, be willing to travel around with the band or orchestra.
People I know in the game also have to do other things like teach, setup recording studios, master recordings etc.
If you just love music and want a bit of beer money join a local band and do the pub scene.
You need to be a very good musician across a range of different instruments and be willing to work across all different types of genres not just the ones you like, be willing to travel around with the band or orchestra.
People I know in the game also have to do other things like teach, setup recording studios, master recordings etc.
If you just love music and want a bit of beer money join a local band and do the pub scene.
Chubbyross said:
I was watching an interesting video a few weeks ago, made by one of the top session players in Nashville (Justin Ostrander). He explained how much him and other session players made, either on the road with top artists or as session players in the studio. I was pretty shocked.
Those out on the road with stars such as Taylor Swift were paid in the hundreds per gig, from which they usually had to pay expenses. From what he said in the video it seemed like the pay was akin to what teachers earn.
There’s a reasons why top session players try to gain a large following on YouTube and launch their own teaching courses.
If you want to get rich playing music then it’ll be through royalties and large full-scale tours. It won’t happen through playing someone else’s music.
Saying that, I’d still give up the careers I’ve had to play guitar for a living.
yeah I also wonder if you are as your example, the guitarist for Taylor Swifts band getting paid very average rates and living a pretty unfamous life. I wonder how many concerts it takes before you're really bored with it. first few at a stadium WOW!..but they're not there for you. oh well only another 70 to go on this tour...then I can get back home and look for more work. FYI im typical very average guitarist in a covers band, we get paid, fed and watered but its only for fun anyway.Those out on the road with stars such as Taylor Swift were paid in the hundreds per gig, from which they usually had to pay expenses. From what he said in the video it seemed like the pay was akin to what teachers earn.
There’s a reasons why top session players try to gain a large following on YouTube and launch their own teaching courses.
If you want to get rich playing music then it’ll be through royalties and large full-scale tours. It won’t happen through playing someone else’s music.
Saying that, I’d still give up the careers I’ve had to play guitar for a living.
I've been a pro musician for over 40 years, and as stated, it's a lot harder now than it was, and the way to make money is to write, not play. (With very rare exceptions).
99% of session musicians are faultless sight readers. That means perfect first time of seeing, no practice at all. They pretty much have to be in or near London as that's where most of the work is. They are never late, and if they are ill they get a dep to cover for them.
The average income for a musician in the UK last year was just under £21k (according to the M.U.). .... and London is the most expensive place in the UK. So most musicians multi-task, playing in studios in the day and in the pits of theatres at night, or teaching.
I stopped playing in 1988 as I realised that it wasn't going to be a sustainable job in the future - samples on computers were taking much of the work, even back then (and I also had had enough of London).
I've since worked in most of the big studios in London (inc. Abbey Rd), but 100% of my earnings are from royalties as a composer - not being a jobbing muso. *
I'm often asked if it's a good profession and I always say that if you can possibly do it as a hobby, stay there, as it's much more fun and a lot less stressful!
Off topic, I was in a successful pop group in the 80s and I was on £500 a week. The guy that wrote the songs bought a house and a TVR from the royalties... that was a lesson well learned!
ETA * Just remembered that this is not quite true, as I get the occasional cheque from ITV or the BBC for TV work I did as a player in the 1980's ... but we are talking a few hundred quid a year, so no swimming pool in the garden.
99% of session musicians are faultless sight readers. That means perfect first time of seeing, no practice at all. They pretty much have to be in or near London as that's where most of the work is. They are never late, and if they are ill they get a dep to cover for them.
The average income for a musician in the UK last year was just under £21k (according to the M.U.). .... and London is the most expensive place in the UK. So most musicians multi-task, playing in studios in the day and in the pits of theatres at night, or teaching.
I stopped playing in 1988 as I realised that it wasn't going to be a sustainable job in the future - samples on computers were taking much of the work, even back then (and I also had had enough of London).
I've since worked in most of the big studios in London (inc. Abbey Rd), but 100% of my earnings are from royalties as a composer - not being a jobbing muso. *
I'm often asked if it's a good profession and I always say that if you can possibly do it as a hobby, stay there, as it's much more fun and a lot less stressful!
Off topic, I was in a successful pop group in the 80s and I was on £500 a week. The guy that wrote the songs bought a house and a TVR from the royalties... that was a lesson well learned!
ETA * Just remembered that this is not quite true, as I get the occasional cheque from ITV or the BBC for TV work I did as a player in the 1980's ... but we are talking a few hundred quid a year, so no swimming pool in the garden.
Edited by GetCarter on Tuesday 25th February 13:18
languagetimothy said:
Everyone else doing the sports professionally are getting paid ok but you're say 250 in the world at tennis you may make hundreds of thousands a year but you have multiple air fares, hotels, trainers, physios etc., not much left at the end of the year.
Karue Sell is within the top 300 (258 to be exact in 2024) in the world and made a video of how much he makes playing tennis. Spoiler, he would be better off working in McDonaldshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MR9xgDoN_uQ
Jon Nathan Cordy spells out in one of his excellent youtube videos exactly what he'd earned as a gigging pro:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFUuqsAJTE8
I've a friend who makes a reasonable living as a pro, doing teaching, videos, gigs and session work. Not wealthy, but a very happy fella. He is astonishingly talented, multi-instrumentalist, sight-reader etc.
The main thing seems to be to have a plan, like any business.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFUuqsAJTE8
I've a friend who makes a reasonable living as a pro, doing teaching, videos, gigs and session work. Not wealthy, but a very happy fella. He is astonishingly talented, multi-instrumentalist, sight-reader etc.
The main thing seems to be to have a plan, like any business.
Yea & No
>
I have 2 cousins who are brothers, both awesome musicians - One very successful and known world wide - 20 odd albums released - His Brother equally talented ended up head Music master at a well known Public school!!
>
Depends on what you want the most I guess - One's single the other married - I'm sure you can guess which is which
for sure the are other factors to becoming a successful musician.
>
I have 2 cousins who are brothers, both awesome musicians - One very successful and known world wide - 20 odd albums released - His Brother equally talented ended up head Music master at a well known Public school!!
>
Depends on what you want the most I guess - One's single the other married - I'm sure you can guess which is which
for sure the are other factors to becoming a successful musician.
languagetimothy said:
Chubbyross said:
I was watching an interesting video a few weeks ago, made by one of the top session players in Nashville (Justin Ostrander). He explained how much him and other session players made, either on the road with top artists or as session players in the studio. I was pretty shocked.
Those out on the road with stars such as Taylor Swift were paid in the hundreds per gig, from which they usually had to pay expenses. From what he said in the video it seemed like the pay was akin to what teachers earn.
There’s a reasons why top session players try to gain a large following on YouTube and launch their own teaching courses.
If you want to get rich playing music then it’ll be through royalties and large full-scale tours. It won’t happen through playing someone else’s music.
Saying that, I’d still give up the careers I’ve had to play guitar for a living.
yeah I also wonder if you are as your example, the guitarist for Taylor Swifts band getting paid very average rates and living a pretty unfamous life. I wonder how many concerts it takes before you're really bored with it. first few at a stadium WOW!..but they're not there for you. oh well only another 70 to go on this tour...then I can get back home and look for more work. FYI im typical very average guitarist in a covers band, we get paid, fed and watered but its only for fun anyway.Those out on the road with stars such as Taylor Swift were paid in the hundreds per gig, from which they usually had to pay expenses. From what he said in the video it seemed like the pay was akin to what teachers earn.
There’s a reasons why top session players try to gain a large following on YouTube and launch their own teaching courses.
If you want to get rich playing music then it’ll be through royalties and large full-scale tours. It won’t happen through playing someone else’s music.
Saying that, I’d still give up the careers I’ve had to play guitar for a living.
StevieBee said:
languagetimothy said:
Chubbyross said:
I was watching an interesting video a few weeks ago, made by one of the top session players in Nashville (Justin Ostrander). He explained how much him and other session players made, either on the road with top artists or as session players in the studio. I was pretty shocked.
Those out on the road with stars such as Taylor Swift were paid in the hundreds per gig, from which they usually had to pay expenses. From what he said in the video it seemed like the pay was akin to what teachers earn.
There’s a reasons why top session players try to gain a large following on YouTube and launch their own teaching courses.
If you want to get rich playing music then it’ll be through royalties and large full-scale tours. It won’t happen through playing someone else’s music.
Saying that, I’d still give up the careers I’ve had to play guitar for a living.
yeah I also wonder if you are as your example, the guitarist for Taylor Swifts band getting paid very average rates and living a pretty unfamous life. I wonder how many concerts it takes before you're really bored with it. first few at a stadium WOW!..but they're not there for you. oh well only another 70 to go on this tour...then I can get back home and look for more work. FYI im typical very average guitarist in a covers band, we get paid, fed and watered but its only for fun anyway.Those out on the road with stars such as Taylor Swift were paid in the hundreds per gig, from which they usually had to pay expenses. From what he said in the video it seemed like the pay was akin to what teachers earn.
There’s a reasons why top session players try to gain a large following on YouTube and launch their own teaching courses.
If you want to get rich playing music then it’ll be through royalties and large full-scale tours. It won’t happen through playing someone else’s music.
Saying that, I’d still give up the careers I’ve had to play guitar for a living.
I have a guy that teaches me from time to time. He’s played some massive gigs with a world famous blues singer - Royal Albert Hall, Glastonbury etc. But he still has to teach. He also coaches various sports and does other bits and pieces to make a living.
A good friend of my wife is a songwriter and musician in a pretty famous UK band.
They've made a good living but she said they never really felt financially secure until one of their songs was picked up and used in global advertising campaign.
It's pretty thin gruel for most and explains why gig tickets are so much and they even get stiffed on merchandise sales.
They've made a good living but she said they never really felt financially secure until one of their songs was picked up and used in global advertising campaign.
It's pretty thin gruel for most and explains why gig tickets are so much and they even get stiffed on merchandise sales.
GetCarter said:
The guy that wrote the songs bought a house and a TVR from the royalties... that was a lesson well learned!
Around 25 years ago, I briefly dated the ex-wife of the bass player in a VERY famous band. When they divorced, part of the settlement was that she would receive the royalties from one of, perhaps their most successful, singles, a song which just about every living adult in the UK and beyond would know. She didn't work, spent half her year abroad, and seemingly lived a perfectly nice lifestyle from that one income stream.
(I had no idea who she was when I met her, and initially wondered whether her stories, about the past, who she knew, what parties she was at, etc etc, were true, but sure enough, a quick Google and there she was).
languagetimothy said:
Chubbyross said:
I was watching an interesting video a few weeks ago, made by one of the top session players in Nashville (Justin Ostrander). He explained how much him and other session players made, either on the road with top artists or as session players in the studio. I was pretty shocked.
Those out on the road with stars such as Taylor Swift were paid in the hundreds per gig, from which they usually had to pay expenses. From what he said in the video it seemed like the pay was akin to what teachers earn.
There’s a reasons why top session players try to gain a large following on YouTube and launch their own teaching courses.
If you want to get rich playing music then it’ll be through royalties and large full-scale tours. It won’t happen through playing someone else’s music.
Saying that, I’d still give up the careers I’ve had to play guitar for a living.
yeah I also wonder if you are as your example, the guitarist for Taylor Swifts band getting paid very average rates and living a pretty unfamous life. I wonder how many concerts it takes before you're really bored with it. first few at a stadium WOW!..but they're not there for you. oh well only another 70 to go on this tour...then I can get back home and look for more work. FYI im typical very average guitarist in a covers band, we get paid, fed and watered but its only for fun anyway.Those out on the road with stars such as Taylor Swift were paid in the hundreds per gig, from which they usually had to pay expenses. From what he said in the video it seemed like the pay was akin to what teachers earn.
There’s a reasons why top session players try to gain a large following on YouTube and launch their own teaching courses.
If you want to get rich playing music then it’ll be through royalties and large full-scale tours. It won’t happen through playing someone else’s music.
Saying that, I’d still give up the careers I’ve had to play guitar for a living.
TS guitarist? Probably more.
thebraketester said:
languagetimothy said:
Chubbyross said:
I was watching an interesting video a few weeks ago, made by one of the top session players in Nashville (Justin Ostrander). He explained how much him and other session players made, either on the road with top artists or as session players in the studio. I was pretty shocked.
Those out on the road with stars such as Taylor Swift were paid in the hundreds per gig, from which they usually had to pay expenses. From what he said in the video it seemed like the pay was akin to what teachers earn.
There’s a reasons why top session players try to gain a large following on YouTube and launch their own teaching courses.
If you want to get rich playing music then it’ll be through royalties and large full-scale tours. It won’t happen through playing someone else’s music.
Saying that, I’d still give up the careers I’ve had to play guitar for a living.
yeah I also wonder if you are as your example, the guitarist for Taylor Swifts band getting paid very average rates and living a pretty unfamous life. I wonder how many concerts it takes before you're really bored with it. first few at a stadium WOW!..but they're not there for you. oh well only another 70 to go on this tour...then I can get back home and look for more work. FYI im typical very average guitarist in a covers band, we get paid, fed and watered but its only for fun anyway.Those out on the road with stars such as Taylor Swift were paid in the hundreds per gig, from which they usually had to pay expenses. From what he said in the video it seemed like the pay was akin to what teachers earn.
There’s a reasons why top session players try to gain a large following on YouTube and launch their own teaching courses.
If you want to get rich playing music then it’ll be through royalties and large full-scale tours. It won’t happen through playing someone else’s music.
Saying that, I’d still give up the careers I’ve had to play guitar for a living.
TS guitarist? Probably more.
I don’t play anymore but a lot of my friends are in the West end. Some are lucky to have their own chair, a couple on some long running shows.
I've been tinkering with my own compositions for decades, however, I've never really tried to make a go of it as I'm under no illusion that it's nigh-on impossible...
Best stick with the day job!
- Sales: Forget it. Hardly anyone buys music anymore.
- Streaming: Forget it. You need a million streams to make enough money to buy a coffee.
- Gigs: Apparently this is the main way money is made these days as streaming has killed off sales income, but I'm a trembling mess who can barely remember my own name if I have to stand up in front of people, let alone perform a piece of music.
Best stick with the day job!
thebraketester said:
languagetimothy said:
Chubbyross said:
I was watching an interesting video a few weeks ago, made by one of the top session players in Nashville (Justin Ostrander). He explained how much him and other session players made, either on the road with top artists or as session players in the studio. I was pretty shocked.
Those out on the road with stars such as Taylor Swift were paid in the hundreds per gig, from which they usually had to pay expenses. From what he said in the video it seemed like the pay was akin to what teachers earn.
There’s a reasons why top session players try to gain a large following on YouTube and launch their own teaching courses.
If you want to get rich playing music then it’ll be through royalties and large full-scale tours. It won’t happen through playing someone else’s music.
Saying that, I’d still give up the careers I’ve had to play guitar for a living.
yeah I also wonder if you are as your example, the guitarist for Taylor Swifts band getting paid very average rates and living a pretty unfamous life. I wonder how many concerts it takes before you're really bored with it. first few at a stadium WOW!..but they're not there for you. oh well only another 70 to go on this tour...then I can get back home and look for more work. FYI im typical very average guitarist in a covers band, we get paid, fed and watered but its only for fun anyway.Those out on the road with stars such as Taylor Swift were paid in the hundreds per gig, from which they usually had to pay expenses. From what he said in the video it seemed like the pay was akin to what teachers earn.
There’s a reasons why top session players try to gain a large following on YouTube and launch their own teaching courses.
If you want to get rich playing music then it’ll be through royalties and large full-scale tours. It won’t happen through playing someone else’s music.
Saying that, I’d still give up the careers I’ve had to play guitar for a living.
TS guitarist? Probably more.
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