Making a record
Discussion
When the Beatles made their first album it was said they did in a day and played like it was a gig, so, live effectively.
I know that's not how its done now, can someone explain to merely an interested member of the public how it would be done in a modern studio?
I know that, for instance, many duets are recorded at different times in different studios even different continents
What does the producer, A&R, and engineer do.
This is all assuming competent members of the band and no orchestras etc.
Thanks.
I know that's not how its done now, can someone explain to merely an interested member of the public how it would be done in a modern studio?
I know that, for instance, many duets are recorded at different times in different studios even different continents
What does the producer, A&R, and engineer do.
This is all assuming competent members of the band and no orchestras etc.
Thanks.
Recording a single by a band that plays together regularly, is generally thought to be competent, is assigned a producer, and hasn't negotiated final control over the production is iterative.
The band will start with a live recording, or record a series of demos in rehearsals.
From the performance or demos, the Artists and Recordings executive (example: Chet Atkins at RCA in the '60s) will select the track to be recorded for a single and assign it to the producer. The producer will schedule the recording in the studio.
The drummer will put down the main rhythm of the song, with the other band members and producer listening on. Once it's ready, the other members will listen to it, either through a "monitor" speaker or through headphones, and sing and play their parts individually. Sometimes the bass and rhythm guitar players will play along with the drummer to have a full rhythm section recording available for the keyboard, lead guitar, and brass/winds to play along to.
The studio engineer and producer will listen to the individual tracks (and ask for sections or full tracks to be re-recorded for things like a late entrance, a clinker from the saxophone, etc). They will take the tracks and play them simultaneously and record them into a "mix", varying the dynamics of each part for emphasis and bringing up and down instruments on either side of a stereo recording. On most tracks after 1967 each musician will play more than one part - called "layering" if separate tracks are recorded and then mixed or "overdubbing" if one track is played back and the new part is added to the recording.
If they decide that the recording needs an instrument that nobody in the band plays at a high enough standard, or that the track is sufficiently complicated to need to be played from sheet music rather than "by ear" then an arranger will be brought in to write each part and session musicians paid to play the other instruments.
Once the mix sounds like what the band was trying to play, a "master" recording will be submitted to the A&R executive, who will decide what needs to change and tell the producer or the band - or decide that it needs to go out!
The band will start with a live recording, or record a series of demos in rehearsals.
From the performance or demos, the Artists and Recordings executive (example: Chet Atkins at RCA in the '60s) will select the track to be recorded for a single and assign it to the producer. The producer will schedule the recording in the studio.
The drummer will put down the main rhythm of the song, with the other band members and producer listening on. Once it's ready, the other members will listen to it, either through a "monitor" speaker or through headphones, and sing and play their parts individually. Sometimes the bass and rhythm guitar players will play along with the drummer to have a full rhythm section recording available for the keyboard, lead guitar, and brass/winds to play along to.
The studio engineer and producer will listen to the individual tracks (and ask for sections or full tracks to be re-recorded for things like a late entrance, a clinker from the saxophone, etc). They will take the tracks and play them simultaneously and record them into a "mix", varying the dynamics of each part for emphasis and bringing up and down instruments on either side of a stereo recording. On most tracks after 1967 each musician will play more than one part - called "layering" if separate tracks are recorded and then mixed or "overdubbing" if one track is played back and the new part is added to the recording.
If they decide that the recording needs an instrument that nobody in the band plays at a high enough standard, or that the track is sufficiently complicated to need to be played from sheet music rather than "by ear" then an arranger will be brought in to write each part and session musicians paid to play the other instruments.
Once the mix sounds like what the band was trying to play, a "master" recording will be submitted to the A&R executive, who will decide what needs to change and tell the producer or the band - or decide that it needs to go out!
Thanks for that.
Are you saying the drummer sits there all by himself and just plays a beat and then they work from that?
Who decides if they should put in a drum or guitar solo or a cymbal crash here and there?
How about the "OOhs and the Yeahs?
Who decided there should be that huge synth break on Won't get fooled again? The producer?
Are you saying the drummer sits there all by himself and just plays a beat and then they work from that?
Who decides if they should put in a drum or guitar solo or a cymbal crash here and there?
How about the "OOhs and the Yeahs?
Who decided there should be that huge synth break on Won't get fooled again? The producer?
Nowadays being competent is not enough, that's mostly because our listening habits have changed.
Music today needs to be quantisized, pro-tooled and what not, even a slight slip in time or sound is apparent to the listener because every music since the invention of pro-tools is made that way and is the only stuff which gets airplay. Everything else will sound amateurish.
Mostly the parts are played individually for each part of the song, to cut and paste and to have additional layers for rythm git or keys, if needed.
Bass usually the same, drums the same, drums are the instrument which gets quantisized the most (ask me...) because of numerous slips here and there. Sometimes the best snare shot and/or kick sound will get copied on all the snare and kick sounds.
Another one bites the dust for example was a bass loop with pre-recorded drum tracks, the guitar was originally from a different song, all mounted together in the studio by the engineer and producer Reinhold Mack, and voc and solo added later.
I know amateur bands who sound like Rick Rubin productions, but the song was actually played in bits and pieces whilst recording and the outcome was simply fantastic.
Some bands nail their live playing of course, Foo Fighters Wasted live comes to mind, but these are pros and even then I suspect some protooling in the post production.
Actually some bands sound deliberately scruffy, like Dr. Dog, which is their way to record.
Music today needs to be quantisized, pro-tooled and what not, even a slight slip in time or sound is apparent to the listener because every music since the invention of pro-tools is made that way and is the only stuff which gets airplay. Everything else will sound amateurish.
Mostly the parts are played individually for each part of the song, to cut and paste and to have additional layers for rythm git or keys, if needed.
Bass usually the same, drums the same, drums are the instrument which gets quantisized the most (ask me...) because of numerous slips here and there. Sometimes the best snare shot and/or kick sound will get copied on all the snare and kick sounds.
Another one bites the dust for example was a bass loop with pre-recorded drum tracks, the guitar was originally from a different song, all mounted together in the studio by the engineer and producer Reinhold Mack, and voc and solo added later.
I know amateur bands who sound like Rick Rubin productions, but the song was actually played in bits and pieces whilst recording and the outcome was simply fantastic.
Some bands nail their live playing of course, Foo Fighters Wasted live comes to mind, but these are pros and even then I suspect some protooling in the post production.
Actually some bands sound deliberately scruffy, like Dr. Dog, which is their way to record.
Johnspex said:
Thanks for that.
Are you saying the drummer sits there all by himself and just plays a beat and then they work from that?
Who decides if they should put in a drum or guitar solo or a cymbal crash here and there?
How about the "OOhs and the Yeahs?
Who decided there should be that huge synth break on Won't get fooled again? The producer?
Of course not, whoever wrote that song has his instrumental parts for mostly everyone arranged beforehand, otherwise it's chaos. It helps if the band knows the song and its arrangement, of course, to get the feel of the song.Are you saying the drummer sits there all by himself and just plays a beat and then they work from that?
Who decides if they should put in a drum or guitar solo or a cymbal crash here and there?
How about the "OOhs and the Yeahs?
Who decided there should be that huge synth break on Won't get fooled again? The producer?
The drummer is sadly the least important one for most music, everything can be laid down with computer drums, and you have no hassle about being out of time etc etc
The core of each song may differ, but it's mostly the theme played by git/keys which is the basic track.
Nobody records on top of a drummer who plays along...
Production comes in when most bands think the outcome is ok...
^^^ That is a windy & jargon filled way of saying that in the studio these days, bands record into digital audio workstations such as for example, Pro Tools as opposed to directly onto tape as they would have done in decades past.
Using digital recording allows producers to easily manipulate recorded audio in various ways such as tidying up the timing which is known as quantising and adding effects to individual instruments/vocal performances as desired. For example, a classic would be adding modualtion effects to guitars such as chorus, phaser, delay and so on. Producong records is a huge subject in its own right with all sorts of tricks & techniques involved in search of the perect result.
Off the top of my head, something I discovered recently is Queens of the stone age's No one knows involved recording Dave Grohl's drum parts without cymbals. They gave his kit rubber pads to hit instead of cymbals, in order that he could keep his rhythm, played cymbal sounds synced into his headphones during recording, then recorded the final cymbal sounds separately. The reason for doing this was to stop the cymbals bleeding into the mics recording the drums. In this way, the drums tracks on the final recording 'pop' much more than they would have were they recorded ensemble with the cymbals.
Studio work is music nerd heaven.
Using digital recording allows producers to easily manipulate recorded audio in various ways such as tidying up the timing which is known as quantising and adding effects to individual instruments/vocal performances as desired. For example, a classic would be adding modualtion effects to guitars such as chorus, phaser, delay and so on. Producong records is a huge subject in its own right with all sorts of tricks & techniques involved in search of the perect result.
Off the top of my head, something I discovered recently is Queens of the stone age's No one knows involved recording Dave Grohl's drum parts without cymbals. They gave his kit rubber pads to hit instead of cymbals, in order that he could keep his rhythm, played cymbal sounds synced into his headphones during recording, then recorded the final cymbal sounds separately. The reason for doing this was to stop the cymbals bleeding into the mics recording the drums. In this way, the drums tracks on the final recording 'pop' much more than they would have were they recorded ensemble with the cymbals.
Studio work is music nerd heaven.
Johnspex said:
Thanks for that.
Are you saying the drummer sits there all by himself and just plays a beat and then they work from that?
Who decides if they should put in a drum or guitar solo or a cymbal crash here and there?
How about the "OOhs and the Yeahs?
Who decided there should be that huge synth break on Won't get fooled again? The producer?
'Won't Get Fooled Again' was initially recorded and produced by Pete Townsend on his own in his home studio in 1970 as part of another project, but he wasn't happy with the outcome and started again from scratch at Olympic Studios in Barnes, with Glynn John's twiddling the knobs. The fantastic keyboard part was Pete's alone and if you listen carefully there's a slight mistake in it which Pete left in.Are you saying the drummer sits there all by himself and just plays a beat and then they work from that?
Who decides if they should put in a drum or guitar solo or a cymbal crash here and there?
How about the "OOhs and the Yeahs?
Who decided there should be that huge synth break on Won't get fooled again? The producer?
ETA : regarding President Murkin's post above, all kinds of odd tricks are tried out in the studio to get the sound's an artist wants, for instance, when recording the drums for 'Tomorrow Never Knows' Ringo Starr put one of Paul McCartney's wooley jumpers into his base drum to get the right affect he wanted.
Edited by P5BNij on Wednesday 5th April 11:27
We recorded a single in a day in 1984. Knocked off the B side in a couple of hours. We got some radio play and there's usually a few on Ebay.
We put the drums bass and rhythm guitar as a base guide track (with the singer doing a guide vocal so they knew where they were) and the vocals and other guitar parts went on top. We had a proper singer who could sing in tune.
It's totally different now - production values are much higher and even the songs have changed. We had a third verse after the "middle eight" and aimed to hit a peak at the end of the song; now you you get a chorus after the middle eight and it's stripped back towards the end and you often get the pay-off line almost unaccompanied (which I hate).
Basically almost anyone can pass off as a singer now.
We put the drums bass and rhythm guitar as a base guide track (with the singer doing a guide vocal so they knew where they were) and the vocals and other guitar parts went on top. We had a proper singer who could sing in tune.
It's totally different now - production values are much higher and even the songs have changed. We had a third verse after the "middle eight" and aimed to hit a peak at the end of the song; now you you get a chorus after the middle eight and it's stripped back towards the end and you often get the pay-off line almost unaccompanied (which I hate).
Basically almost anyone can pass off as a singer now.
Yes, nerdy stuff indeed!
A very insightful video somwhere on yt shows Donald Fagen and Walter Becker discussing recording sessions for the Aja album.
As they are the composers, instrumentalists, arrangers, producers (well, at least telling Gary Katz how they think it should sound) and hand-picking all the players
for their respective parts, it gives a really good view how top recordings are made.
Interesting are their modulations on Michael McDonalds backing vocals and their comments on that...
A very insightful video somwhere on yt shows Donald Fagen and Walter Becker discussing recording sessions for the Aja album.
As they are the composers, instrumentalists, arrangers, producers (well, at least telling Gary Katz how they think it should sound) and hand-picking all the players
for their respective parts, it gives a really good view how top recordings are made.
Interesting are their modulations on Michael McDonalds backing vocals and their comments on that...
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