Music shops, how much longer?
Discussion
I expect places like Andertons will survive for the time being at least, but owners of ordinary well-established music shops must be wondering how much longer they can survive. There's quite a big one near me that's been for sale for a couple of months now. Although the asking price is reasonable I should think buying the stock would be a big investment and anybody with that kind of money to invest wouldn't consider it, I should imagine.
I remember when I dabbled in the music business twenty odd years ago that the big places were selling Fender (for instance) at prices I could barely get direct from the distributors.
I'd have to admit that were I in the market for an instrument I would just order it online.
I remember when I dabbled in the music business twenty odd years ago that the big places were selling Fender (for instance) at prices I could barely get direct from the distributors.
I'd have to admit that were I in the market for an instrument I would just order it online.
I think it depends on the value.
No way I would want to drop £1k on a guitar let along 4 or 5 with out playing it first.
Same for high end amps & pedals.
IMO shops like Andertons and Guitar Village which have top end stock will survive esp if they own their premises.
Bill's guitars with a bunch of piled up amps in for repair and carpet thats older than me and held together only by the thick layer of grime - sadly are done for!
No way I would want to drop £1k on a guitar let along 4 or 5 with out playing it first.
Same for high end amps & pedals.
IMO shops like Andertons and Guitar Village which have top end stock will survive esp if they own their premises.
Bill's guitars with a bunch of piled up amps in for repair and carpet thats older than me and held together only by the thick layer of grime - sadly are done for!
dojo said:
IMO shops like Andertons and Guitar Village which have top end stock will survive esp if they own their premises.
Bill's guitars with a bunch of piled up amps in for repair and carpet thats older than me and held together only by the thick layer of grime - sadly are done for!
Any thoughts on shops which are neither?Bill's guitars with a bunch of piled up amps in for repair and carpet thats older than me and held together only by the thick layer of grime - sadly are done for!
I know for a fact the guy who owns the big yellow place in Brighton has a house on the palm Jumeirah so there's still a few quid in it if you get it right.
In my town, we lost one a few years back, Guitar Junction, locally known as guitar junk shop. They were in a small just out of town shop & moved into a three times the size place in the centre. In there you could buy a guitar for £5k or £50, nothing in between. Lasted a year.
In my town, we lost one a few years back, Guitar Junction, locally known as guitar junk shop. They were in a small just out of town shop & moved into a three times the size place in the centre. In there you could buy a guitar for £5k or £50, nothing in between. Lasted a year.
Like any business, if you have big flashy premises in a town centre with sky high rent and rates and plenty of staff to pay you are going to struggle with the advent of the internet.
However, if the owner owns the property outright, possibly purchased cheaply years ago and has low overheads, and offers a good service he should be OK.
However, if the owner owns the property outright, possibly purchased cheaply years ago and has low overheads, and offers a good service he should be OK.
singlecoil said:
Any thoughts on shops which are neither?
I think shops have to be selling high end and booteek stuff to survive. Its mainly men who buy stuff, the shops need to target men who geek out and spend time on forums and then expect some sort of customer service.
Like bikes, Wiggle will put Halfords and Evans under but they'll be opportunities for the shops selling £4k custom steel bikes etc.
If you want to sell Mexican strats with Mustang amps and Boss pedals.... Well good luck to you.
Just my 2p worth, prob totally wrong!
Andertons, Dawsons and Guitar Village are my local shops. There is another called Apex music which moved recently...I haven't even bothered going in. The reason is that it is in a really awkward spot with two customer parking spaces that always seem to be full when I go past. I've looked on line and they don't seem to have much of interest in stock either, so I wonder how long they will last.
The other three have had a decent amount of business from me (GV maybe less so, but nearly got a Fender CS order from me at one point until I saw sense). I've recently been in them all trying out gear and even if I haven't come out with something on that day, they have had business out of me as a result. I personally won't try out gear that I don't intend to buy from them: If I plan to buy on line, then I don't feel it's fair to use them as a test centre, then buy elsewhere. Unfortunately I gather that I'm in the minority taking this viewpoint, so I do wonder how much longer some of them will continue...Dawsons didn't seem to have much stock when I was in there last week either.
I've found with guitars that I really need to play them first as when I've bought blind I've then had to have work done to get them playing how I want, or in one case sold it and bought something that I could try first. I guess I'm lucky that I travel with work, so sometimes get to try out other stores such as Absolute Music (Poole area) or the various PMT branches, or even GAK on the rare occasion I'm over that way.
In the last year I've bought a Fender '64 Custom deluxe reverb, Marshall SV20H (aka 'Plexi'), Gretsch G5622T, Chinese Champ clone and a ton of parts for various projects/upgrades, so I'm doing my bit to keep the shops (and the online branches) going.
The other three have had a decent amount of business from me (GV maybe less so, but nearly got a Fender CS order from me at one point until I saw sense). I've recently been in them all trying out gear and even if I haven't come out with something on that day, they have had business out of me as a result. I personally won't try out gear that I don't intend to buy from them: If I plan to buy on line, then I don't feel it's fair to use them as a test centre, then buy elsewhere. Unfortunately I gather that I'm in the minority taking this viewpoint, so I do wonder how much longer some of them will continue...Dawsons didn't seem to have much stock when I was in there last week either.
I've found with guitars that I really need to play them first as when I've bought blind I've then had to have work done to get them playing how I want, or in one case sold it and bought something that I could try first. I guess I'm lucky that I travel with work, so sometimes get to try out other stores such as Absolute Music (Poole area) or the various PMT branches, or even GAK on the rare occasion I'm over that way.
In the last year I've bought a Fender '64 Custom deluxe reverb, Marshall SV20H (aka 'Plexi'), Gretsch G5622T, Chinese Champ clone and a ton of parts for various projects/upgrades, so I'm doing my bit to keep the shops (and the online branches) going.
dojo said:
singlecoil said:
Any thoughts on shops which are neither?
I think shops have to be selling high end and booteek stuff to survive. Its mainly men who buy stuff, the shops need to target men who geek out and spend time on forums and then expect some sort of customer service.
Like bikes, Wiggle will put Halfords and Evans under but they'll be opportunities for the shops selling £4k custom steel bikes etc.
If you want to sell Mexican strats with Mustang amps and Boss pedals.... Well good luck to you.
Just my 2p worth, prob totally wrong!
Apart from my electric (bought online), acoustic (bought at an antique / collectors market), and amp (Ebay), everything else is bought at a little music shop 5 miles away.
Picks, strings, GHS Fast-Fret, my guitar stand, string winder, guitar tuner, basically all the accessories is from this shop and long may it continue. She also does a great line in original vinyl, and free advertising for local bands or musicians.
Picks, strings, GHS Fast-Fret, my guitar stand, string winder, guitar tuner, basically all the accessories is from this shop and long may it continue. She also does a great line in original vinyl, and free advertising for local bands or musicians.
As a bass player smaller shops tend to be limited in what they stock so parts accessories and electronics tend to be ordered online (they work or they don't). Guitars I buy in person unless it's something really obscure. I like to go to shops with dedicated bass departments as I often end up buying not exactly what I went for so places like Andertons are a good shout as prices are fair.
I'm going to change my head so if I want to play it I buy in the shop, it's not fair to use places as a test bed. However in this case I know what I want as the rehearsal studio has one so probably will be online.
There will always be a place for the specialists selling high end stuff.
I'm going to change my head so if I want to play it I buy in the shop, it's not fair to use places as a test bed. However in this case I know what I want as the rehearsal studio has one so probably will be online.
There will always be a place for the specialists selling high end stuff.
Bit of a shout out to Music Street in Huntingdon, Cambs. Owned and run by 2 friends of mine, one of whom happens to play bass in a band with me.
Its tough, with margins being squeezed across the board. The big guys (F and G) only give you decent prices if you carry / commit to holding a certain amount of their stock. The value is with knowledgeable staff who can do set ups/ repairs / restringing whilst on company time. That, and a good second hand trade.
Its tough, with margins being squeezed across the board. The big guys (F and G) only give you decent prices if you carry / commit to holding a certain amount of their stock. The value is with knowledgeable staff who can do set ups/ repairs / restringing whilst on company time. That, and a good second hand trade.
singlecoil said:
Speaking from my own experience, such shops would love to be selling the more interesting stuff but they can't get them at the prices the big boys can. It's as if the big brands are in cahoots with the big retailers.
In my view thats a kind of lazy attitude. Totally get the fact that hey can't get the prices on Fender etc... so why even bother. Why not strike up some deals with some high quality Uk Luthiers? There are plenty of really unique independent pedal builders and amp builders.
If the shop is independent why not use it to show case independent builders work and attract new customers, they'll never compete with Andertons or Amazon anyway!
dojo said:
singlecoil said:
Speaking from my own experience, such shops would love to be selling the more interesting stuff but they can't get them at the prices the big boys can. It's as if the big brands are in cahoots with the big retailers.
In my view thats a kind of lazy attitude. Totally get the fact that hey can't get the prices on Fender etc... so why even bother. Why not strike up some deals with some high quality Uk Luthiers? There are plenty of really unique independent pedal builders and amp builders.
If the shop is independent why not use it to show case independent builders work and attract new customers, they'll never compete with Andertons or Amazon anyway!
Show me an independent guitar maker in this country and I'll show you a person who has another source of income. And those who are hanging on by their fingernails need every penny of whatever their guitars will fetch, there's nothing left over for shop mark-up.
singlecoil said:
Your suggestion makes perfect sense, except for the fact that there are broadly speaking no new (or old) customers for the work of independent UK builders. How often have you seen a UK maker's work featured in the 'Let's look at our guitars' thread?
Show me an independent guitar maker in this country and I'll show you a person who has another source of income. And those who are hanging on by their fingernails need every penny of whatever their guitars will fetch, there's nothing left over for shop mark-up.
I guess in this day and age with the web, YouTube, Instagram, etc. the guitar builders just sell direct. I was very tempted by a Fraser guitar after seeing one on here and doing a bit of research online. Show me an independent guitar maker in this country and I'll show you a person who has another source of income. And those who are hanging on by their fingernails need every penny of whatever their guitars will fetch, there's nothing left over for shop mark-up.
Having said that having, a shop presence might help shift more, especially to those who are skeptical about buying guitars unseen. However they currently have some long lead times so are selling everything they can make already.
Same with Kinkade guitars, from watching That Pedal Show he has something like an 18 month waiting list, and I assume that's just from the reputation he has built up over the years.
There were a couple of great music shops in my neck of the woods when I was a kid. I'd be in there every Saturday playing with the synths - Roland D-50s, Yamaha DX7s and other things that seemed as unaffordable at the time as the Ferrari Testarossa on my bedroom wall. By the time I'd grown up one of the shops had narrowed its focus to home keyboards, pianos and acoustic instruments, but the other saw a significant amount of my income go into its coffers. I'm still friends with the guy who worked there at the time. I'd love to be able to walk into a music shop today and play with all the tech gear - I'm pretty sure it's the lack of such an opportunity that's led to me buying no gear whatsoever in the last ten years or so... other than Logic Pro and a handful of software synths.
A good friend of mine, Keith owns an independent shop in Huddersfield and seems to do very well, offers good service etc.
https://www.keithdawsonmusic.com/
https://www.keithdawsonmusic.com/
- Not to be confused with multiple Dawson's music which has recently announced it is closing down*
Cankicker said:
I was told he'd love to stock Fenders but couldn't afford the £50k or whatever it was in stock they insisted he invest.
I wonder if a few independents could get together, create a nominal company vehicle to front the deal with the suppliers and then split things down between them...or can't it work like that?Mr_Yogi said:
singlecoil said:
Your suggestion makes perfect sense, except for the fact that there are broadly speaking no new (or old) customers for the work of independent UK builders. How often have you seen a UK maker's work featured in the 'Let's look at our guitars' thread?
Show me an independent guitar maker in this country and I'll show you a person who has another source of income. And those who are hanging on by their fingernails need every penny of whatever their guitars will fetch, there's nothing left over for shop mark-up.
I guess in this day and age with the web, YouTube, Instagram, etc. the guitar builders just sell direct. I was very tempted by a Fraser guitar after seeing one on here and doing a bit of research online. Show me an independent guitar maker in this country and I'll show you a person who has another source of income. And those who are hanging on by their fingernails need every penny of whatever their guitars will fetch, there's nothing left over for shop mark-up.
Having said that having, a shop presence might help shift more, especially to those who are skeptical about buying guitars unseen. However they currently have some long lead times so are selling everything they can make already.
Same with Kinkade guitars, from watching That Pedal Show he has something like an 18 month waiting list, and I assume that's just from the reputation he has built up over the years.
HAve you seen his matchstick guitar?? Crazy
Joe White around here seems to do well as a luthier. I grew up in Cornwall and Manson were always well regarded before the Muse connection.
I suppose the point is - you can't compete with the big boys with Gibson/Fender dealerships, you can't compete with the online retailers for cheap stuff... so you have to be inventive and find a way?!?
G&L Guitars? Heritage Guitars...
Or some of the new guys like Reverend or Peerless??
And then be inventive with you're marketing and get people in your shop. The Andertons Youtube show is slick but it doesn't take much to create stuff like that if you have the time and inclination!
I’ve been actively updating my gear (guitar /amps) and having moved to the moon in terms of decent music stores ,found myself buying online.
I bought a cab which arrived with the wheels attached one of which punched a hole in the bottom of the cab I assume during transport .
I bought a g&l guitar which arrived with the all the dials saying ‘tone’ on them and the pickups not working ,and 3 days ago took delivery of a strat which was advertised as new ,when I spoke to them they advised it was on display but ‘mint’ .It arrived with strings covered in black gunk,the frets were heavily discoloured and there was a big chip on the rear of the guitar .
On the other hand I bought s few multi effects,amp ,another cab all of which arrived in perfect condition.
I don’t understand why shops despatch goods in such condition ,whilst the cab damage probably happened in transit ,they left the screw in wheels attached and the item was poorly packed (moving around in the box) .
Whilst they all took the goods back I have lost faith in buying from these companies ,they were all Independent retailers .
I have no issue buying boxed hardware (amps,effects etc) but will probably buy my guitars from shops from now on.
Don’t think that’s going to rescue the industry though,it seems to be a near impossible task for the small guys to keep going ,but as my examples above show they are not helping themselves.
I bought a cab which arrived with the wheels attached one of which punched a hole in the bottom of the cab I assume during transport .
I bought a g&l guitar which arrived with the all the dials saying ‘tone’ on them and the pickups not working ,and 3 days ago took delivery of a strat which was advertised as new ,when I spoke to them they advised it was on display but ‘mint’ .It arrived with strings covered in black gunk,the frets were heavily discoloured and there was a big chip on the rear of the guitar .
On the other hand I bought s few multi effects,amp ,another cab all of which arrived in perfect condition.
I don’t understand why shops despatch goods in such condition ,whilst the cab damage probably happened in transit ,they left the screw in wheels attached and the item was poorly packed (moving around in the box) .
Whilst they all took the goods back I have lost faith in buying from these companies ,they were all Independent retailers .
I have no issue buying boxed hardware (amps,effects etc) but will probably buy my guitars from shops from now on.
Don’t think that’s going to rescue the industry though,it seems to be a near impossible task for the small guys to keep going ,but as my examples above show they are not helping themselves.
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