Kurt... 24 years ago today..
Discussion
Woah, really? Man I remember that day, I was in school and we had a music lesson that day too which made it a bit more surreal.
Still my favourite band ever, and in terms of the ability to knock a song up with the most basic of structures one minute and then some angry noise-filled but delicately coherent tune the next, I'm not sure I'll ever find any artist I enjoy more. Gone too early, but at least the legacy never had the chance to be tainted with crapness.
Still my favourite band ever, and in terms of the ability to knock a song up with the most basic of structures one minute and then some angry noise-filled but delicately coherent tune the next, I'm not sure I'll ever find any artist I enjoy more. Gone too early, but at least the legacy never had the chance to be tainted with crapness.
Overhyped. Only famous through death.
First word I heard anyone say on the matter after his (K unt Wan kstain was it Melody Maker called him before he died) suicide was announced was "pussy".
Most people didn't actually know who Nirvarna were.
Most only bought an albumn of the number they'd done after Kurts death. Before he died there were definately more people whom had heard of Hole (Courtneys band, indeed NME used to wanxkx lyrical over her much more) than Nirvarna.
However, good album cover, and good shooting skills, have to give the neurotic druggie that complement.
If the Jesus and Mary Chain hadn't gone soft post mid 1980s and a few soft arse shoegazer bands come along diluting the UK Indie scene we'd have been well ahead of Seattle grunge, instead of indie and house conflining into the Madchester and Acid eras.
First word I heard anyone say on the matter after his (K unt Wan kstain was it Melody Maker called him before he died) suicide was announced was "pussy".
Most people didn't actually know who Nirvarna were.
Most only bought an albumn of the number they'd done after Kurts death. Before he died there were definately more people whom had heard of Hole (Courtneys band, indeed NME used to wanxkx lyrical over her much more) than Nirvarna.
However, good album cover, and good shooting skills, have to give the neurotic druggie that complement.
If the Jesus and Mary Chain hadn't gone soft post mid 1980s and a few soft arse shoegazer bands come along diluting the UK Indie scene we'd have been well ahead of Seattle grunge, instead of indie and house conflining into the Madchester and Acid eras.
Yep, opinion given at the time, caveated through the eyes of journos in 1980-90s NME and Melody Maker, and living in the Indie (100 -50 club venues) Mancs, Sheffield and Glasgow music scenes, plus a brief two week trip to Washington State.
Most overhyped "sub popular" music star of all time I'd say. Ironically Courtney Love and a fair few Seattleies became the top ten in following years after promising starts. UK wise I'd say on Andrew Eldritch or Wayne Hussy could have got near the top ten in that era.
Had he lived 100-1 he would have left Nirvana (press talk was before his death - remember he'd already had self mutilation incidents before his death - the other two were going to kick him out but Geffen Records made them let him stay on until the inevitable); just as Morrisey did the Smiths, and we've all seen how that genius faded to parody.
Nevermind if he'd lived, that is just my opinion based on the masses I knew at the time and the press, who is to say what would have happend or happens in an alternate universe.
Now, that Dave Grohl, there is talent and a man that stays the distance rather than subsuming to weakness of the human body and spirit.
Most overhyped "sub popular" music star of all time I'd say. Ironically Courtney Love and a fair few Seattleies became the top ten in following years after promising starts. UK wise I'd say on Andrew Eldritch or Wayne Hussy could have got near the top ten in that era.
Had he lived 100-1 he would have left Nirvana (press talk was before his death - remember he'd already had self mutilation incidents before his death - the other two were going to kick him out but Geffen Records made them let him stay on until the inevitable); just as Morrisey did the Smiths, and we've all seen how that genius faded to parody.
Nevermind if he'd lived, that is just my opinion based on the masses I knew at the time and the press, who is to say what would have happend or happens in an alternate universe.
Now, that Dave Grohl, there is talent and a man that stays the distance rather than subsuming to weakness of the human body and spirit.
StanleyT said:
Overhyped. Only famous through death.
First word I heard anyone say on the matter after his (K unt Wan kstain was it Melody Maker called him before he died) suicide was announced was "pussy".
Most people didn't actually know who Nirvarna were.
Most only bought an albumn of the number they'd done after Kurts death. Before he died there were definately more people whom had heard of Hole (Courtneys band, indeed NME used to wanxkx lyrical over her much more) than Nirvarna.
However, good album cover, and good shooting skills, have to give the neurotic druggie that complement.
If the Jesus and Mary Chain hadn't gone soft post mid 1980s and a few soft arse shoegazer bands come along diluting the UK Indie scene we'd have been well ahead of Seattle grunge, instead of indie and house conflining into the Madchester and Acid eras.
Nevermind was 5x platinum before Kurt's death.First word I heard anyone say on the matter after his (K unt Wan kstain was it Melody Maker called him before he died) suicide was announced was "pussy".
Most people didn't actually know who Nirvarna were.
Most only bought an albumn of the number they'd done after Kurts death. Before he died there were definately more people whom had heard of Hole (Courtneys band, indeed NME used to wanxkx lyrical over her much more) than Nirvarna.
However, good album cover, and good shooting skills, have to give the neurotic druggie that complement.
If the Jesus and Mary Chain hadn't gone soft post mid 1980s and a few soft arse shoegazer bands come along diluting the UK Indie scene we'd have been well ahead of Seattle grunge, instead of indie and house conflining into the Madchester and Acid eras.
None of Hole's albums achieved that before or since.
Which is probably where our source opinions and predjudice and view as to whether this was great or not differ; that I'd come from underground hard edgy alt Goth / JAMC etc type stuff to Nirvanas "mild soft accessible grunge going commercial" form of "rock" and you've come from "commercial hard rock" down to "mild soft accessible grunge going commercial" rock.
Note how most peoples comments on KB are about him, how he liked their music (he named checked severely in interviews his influences) after his death on the internet, e.g. Bowie, Reed, rappers etc, how many said they liked Nirvana before he died!!!!.
So opinions meet and worlds collide!!!!
But go on, final Q, who do you think of a) KB or b) DG would really be the respected muscian / person today, compared to say Brian Jones and Keith or John And Macca?
Oh final Q, Courtney. Would you?
Note how most peoples comments on KB are about him, how he liked their music (he named checked severely in interviews his influences) after his death on the internet, e.g. Bowie, Reed, rappers etc, how many said they liked Nirvana before he died!!!!.
So opinions meet and worlds collide!!!!
But go on, final Q, who do you think of a) KB or b) DG would really be the respected muscian / person today, compared to say Brian Jones and Keith or John And Macca?
Oh final Q, Courtney. Would you?
His attempts at death (previous suicide attempts) and self destruction seemed to be the main focus of the UK music industry press for many months before the inevitable. So I do apologise, yes he was famous before his death, didn't just become so as he shot himself, mainly as people were watching the inevitable.
A bit like the Manics crossing from Indie to gentrified mainstream when Richie dissapearred -t hat gave them a greater press springboard for a time than their actual music. There was more press than there was when they initially toured with their first album (whose name I forget - the one with Motorcycle Emptyness as track 3 or 4 - proving the point that death makes fame but music is forgotten).
A bit like the Manics crossing from Indie to gentrified mainstream when Richie dissapearred -t hat gave them a greater press springboard for a time than their actual music. There was more press than there was when they initially toured with their first album (whose name I forget - the one with Motorcycle Emptyness as track 3 or 4 - proving the point that death makes fame but music is forgotten).
I wouldn't necessarily describe Appetite as commercial hard rock. It was quite different to the glam/hair metal that was popular at the time and took a good while to achieve the commercial success it eventually received.
Kurt was always going to destroy himself, tortured souls always do. So by default I would have to save Dave Grohl. He's matured into a great artist and seems to be a thoroughly likeable down to earth bloke.
And Courtney? Of course, I imagine she's absolute filth.
Kurt was always going to destroy himself, tortured souls always do. So by default I would have to save Dave Grohl. He's matured into a great artist and seems to be a thoroughly likeable down to earth bloke.
And Courtney? Of course, I imagine she's absolute filth.
StanleyT said:
His attempts at death (previous suicide attempts) and self destruction seemed to be the main focus of the UK music industry press for many months before the inevitable.
That's the British press for you. They did the same with Amy Winehouse.Generation Terrorists was a great debut. I also enjoyed Gold Against the Soul. Their newer stuff doesn't really do it for me.
Generation Terrorists, hangs head in shame for not remembering that.
Apparently I saw them at Manchester Academy on their first gig there. All I can remember is being very drunk and sick (possibly not in the right toilets leading to eviction). Apparently one of the epic gigs of all time. Ho-hum. The gig ticket is number 2 on my "Proud board" number 1 being Spike Island.
Oh - we better get our batting and "bag" order sorted for Courtney then as I'm as up for it as you are!!!!!
Apparently I saw them at Manchester Academy on their first gig there. All I can remember is being very drunk and sick (possibly not in the right toilets leading to eviction). Apparently one of the epic gigs of all time. Ho-hum. The gig ticket is number 2 on my "Proud board" number 1 being Spike Island.
Oh - we better get our batting and "bag" order sorted for Courtney then as I'm as up for it as you are!!!!!
I can remember when I heard the news on the radio. I knew my little sis would have been devastated..
I'd seen them in a wee-ish venue in Edinburgh (no, not The Venue, just doon the road) about four years previously and was blown away by the energy and content of their show.
I ordered their then current album from the local record shop and a week later picked it up, took it home and played it. It was utter mince!! I'd been given an obscure album by some bloody imposters from the 'pyschedelia' era of the late 60's..
Anyway - Bleach was soon swapped out and played to death.
I also remember I bought Nevermind, Blood Sugar and Screamadelica on the same day. All three were released in the same week!
Anyway.. my opinion, is that he was extremely troubled and cemented (at the time) my thoughts that I'd hate to be famous.
RIP
I'd seen them in a wee-ish venue in Edinburgh (no, not The Venue, just doon the road) about four years previously and was blown away by the energy and content of their show.
I ordered their then current album from the local record shop and a week later picked it up, took it home and played it. It was utter mince!! I'd been given an obscure album by some bloody imposters from the 'pyschedelia' era of the late 60's..
Anyway - Bleach was soon swapped out and played to death.
I also remember I bought Nevermind, Blood Sugar and Screamadelica on the same day. All three were released in the same week!
Anyway.. my opinion, is that he was extremely troubled and cemented (at the time) my thoughts that I'd hate to be famous.
RIP
StanleyT said:
Generation Terrorists, hangs head in shame for not remembering that.
Apparently I saw them at Manchester Academy on their first gig there. All I can remember is being very drunk and sick (possibly not in the right toilets leading to eviction). Apparently one of the epic gigs of all time. Ho-hum. The gig ticket is number 2 on my "Proud board" number 1 being Spike Island.
Oh - we better get our batting and "bag" order sorted for Courtney then as I'm as up for it as you are!!!!!
Their first Manchester gig was at the International.....and I was probably there and drunk too as I lived practically across the road from '87 to '90 Apparently I saw them at Manchester Academy on their first gig there. All I can remember is being very drunk and sick (possibly not in the right toilets leading to eviction). Apparently one of the epic gigs of all time. Ho-hum. The gig ticket is number 2 on my "Proud board" number 1 being Spike Island.
Oh - we better get our batting and "bag" order sorted for Courtney then as I'm as up for it as you are!!!!!
Where exactley was the International and International 2?
I used to visit a student mate in ~1988-1991 who lived in Whitworth Park next to the Academy.
By the time he moved to Victoria Park ~93 (Upper Brook Street) the Internationals had gone.
Mind you last time I drove through that area of Mancs the house he lived in had also gone, the hospital and new student flats / villages growing over that area. The Grafton and the Rampant Lion pubs still about?
I used to visit a student mate in ~1988-1991 who lived in Whitworth Park next to the Academy.
By the time he moved to Victoria Park ~93 (Upper Brook Street) the Internationals had gone.
Mind you last time I drove through that area of Mancs the house he lived in had also gone, the hospital and new student flats / villages growing over that area. The Grafton and the Rampant Lion pubs still about?
StanleyT said:
Overhyped. Only famous through death.
First word I heard anyone say on the matter after his (K unt Wan kstain was it Melody Maker called him before he died) suicide was announced was "pussy".
Most people didn't actually know who Nirvarna were.
Most only bought an albumn of the number they'd done after Kurts death. Before he died there were definately more people whom had heard of Hole (Courtneys band, indeed NME used to wanxkx lyrical over her much more) than Nirvarna.
However, good album cover, and good shooting skills, have to give the neurotic druggie that complement.
If the Jesus and Mary Chain hadn't gone soft post mid 1980s and a few soft arse shoegazer bands come along diluting the UK Indie scene we'd have been well ahead of Seattle grunge, instead of indie and house conflining into the Madchester and Acid eras.
Utter, utter cobblers.First word I heard anyone say on the matter after his (K unt Wan kstain was it Melody Maker called him before he died) suicide was announced was "pussy".
Most people didn't actually know who Nirvarna were.
Most only bought an albumn of the number they'd done after Kurts death. Before he died there were definately more people whom had heard of Hole (Courtneys band, indeed NME used to wanxkx lyrical over her much more) than Nirvarna.
However, good album cover, and good shooting skills, have to give the neurotic druggie that complement.
If the Jesus and Mary Chain hadn't gone soft post mid 1980s and a few soft arse shoegazer bands come along diluting the UK Indie scene we'd have been well ahead of Seattle grunge, instead of indie and house conflining into the Madchester and Acid eras.
I don't know how old you are but I was 19 in 1991 and Nevermind was a game changer when it came out. To say they only became famous because of Kurt's death is ridiculous.
Still maintain, right time, right place, Geffen hiding being sub-pop brands helped with the puiblicity.
Only Nevermind got to number 5 in the UK on release (OK it got to 1 in States, Mooseuk, Finland etc). Can you name the bands that had the number five albums the week before or after? No, no 5 album not a great acolade. In fact the thread is a self fullfilling prophecy. It was started because of an anniversary of him killing himself, not an anniversary of mastering the horror chord, or being the first to play to 1 million at Seatac Bowl, no the thread started because he was famous for being dead!!!!!!!!!
Indeed, famous for the run up to his death, very famous in the music generes that he had followers in, which did cross, through the Seattle scene, into b(r)ands such as Nirvarna and others from eleswhere such as the Pixies and REM, SY, Cutflaps, Mudhoney, Fudgetunnel onto FYC etc etc, over from sub music genres into mainstream - yes he was a great part of that but not for his music but for his love of sag and self destruction - at least how our press portrayed him and press in the US music scene when Iwas over there just before he wussed out was also narrating.
I still maintain, if the band members hadn't carried on going, commercialisation from Geffen kicked in on re-releases, marketing, re-tuning of the story from "herion junkie sings OK with moderately famous wife", to " blonde rock star lady with tortured genius husband leaves a baby daughter to grow up alone" he'd be a lot more forgotten.
Think of the others like Nike Drake that did a few albums then topped out, Musicos know him, not many others though......
Around the week Nevermind peaked in the charts, whom else was there, Joe Cocker, Erasure, Michael Jackson (Dangerous, again another artist famous for being dead), Sonic Youth (funny no one has mentioned them yet but they were the true grunge band that crossed over and commercialised it all, good ole Kim - Seattles equivalent to Brix in Salford's The Fall), Lionel Richie and Prefab Sprout). So UK top out at that position wasn't really something that is remembered for many other acts, of equal popularity in the day.
Only Nevermind got to number 5 in the UK on release (OK it got to 1 in States, Mooseuk, Finland etc). Can you name the bands that had the number five albums the week before or after? No, no 5 album not a great acolade. In fact the thread is a self fullfilling prophecy. It was started because of an anniversary of him killing himself, not an anniversary of mastering the horror chord, or being the first to play to 1 million at Seatac Bowl, no the thread started because he was famous for being dead!!!!!!!!!
Indeed, famous for the run up to his death, very famous in the music generes that he had followers in, which did cross, through the Seattle scene, into b(r)ands such as Nirvarna and others from eleswhere such as the Pixies and REM, SY, Cutflaps, Mudhoney, Fudgetunnel onto FYC etc etc, over from sub music genres into mainstream - yes he was a great part of that but not for his music but for his love of sag and self destruction - at least how our press portrayed him and press in the US music scene when Iwas over there just before he wussed out was also narrating.
I still maintain, if the band members hadn't carried on going, commercialisation from Geffen kicked in on re-releases, marketing, re-tuning of the story from "herion junkie sings OK with moderately famous wife", to " blonde rock star lady with tortured genius husband leaves a baby daughter to grow up alone" he'd be a lot more forgotten.
Think of the others like Nike Drake that did a few albums then topped out, Musicos know him, not many others though......
Around the week Nevermind peaked in the charts, whom else was there, Joe Cocker, Erasure, Michael Jackson (Dangerous, again another artist famous for being dead), Sonic Youth (funny no one has mentioned them yet but they were the true grunge band that crossed over and commercialised it all, good ole Kim - Seattles equivalent to Brix in Salford's The Fall), Lionel Richie and Prefab Sprout). So UK top out at that position wasn't really something that is remembered for many other acts, of equal popularity in the day.
I'm a huge Foo Fighter's fan, having seen them from their early days on the I'm Okay, Euro-K tour and then fourteen times since. Spent silly amounts on CDs of imports from all over the world (I think at one point I owned five different versions of Monkey Wrench!), and god knows how much on guitar gear to try and capture that sound.
Grohl ain't a patch on Cobain as a songwriter.
Lovely guy, certainly a better human being, but in terms of ability to write something to capture the imagination it's not even close I'm afraid.
And let's not even go there on how massively overrated the Manchester music scene of the late '80s + early '90s is. For the life of me I cannot understand the obsession with The Stone Roses, for example. Musically they're innoffensive and Squire is an impressive guitarist for sure, but Ian Brown was (and is) utterly dire. I know they've not been mentioned specifically and neither is this a p*ssing contest as to who is better, I just wanted to get that off my chest
Grohl ain't a patch on Cobain as a songwriter.
Lovely guy, certainly a better human being, but in terms of ability to write something to capture the imagination it's not even close I'm afraid.
And let's not even go there on how massively overrated the Manchester music scene of the late '80s + early '90s is. For the life of me I cannot understand the obsession with The Stone Roses, for example. Musically they're innoffensive and Squire is an impressive guitarist for sure, but Ian Brown was (and is) utterly dire. I know they've not been mentioned specifically and neither is this a p*ssing contest as to who is better, I just wanted to get that off my chest
StanleyT said:
Still maintain, right time, right place, Geffen hiding being sub-pop brands helped with the puiblicity.
Only Nevermind got to number 5 in the UK on release (OK it got to 1 in States, Mooseuk, Finland etc). Can you name the bands that had the number five albums the week before or after? No, no 5 album not a great acolade. In fact the thread is a self fullfilling prophecy. It was started because of an anniversary of him killing himself, not an anniversary of mastering the horror chord, or being the first to play to 1 million at Seatac Bowl, no the thread started because he was famous for being dead!!!!!!!!!
Indeed, famous for the run up to his death, very famous in the music generes that he had followers in, which did cross, through the Seattle scene, into b(r)ands such as Nirvarna and others from eleswhere such as the Pixies and REM, SY, Cutflaps, Mudhoney, Fudgetunnel onto FYC etc etc, over from sub music genres into mainstream - yes he was a great part of that but not for his music but for his love of sag and self destruction - at least how our press portrayed him and press in the US music scene when Iwas over there just before he wussed out was also narrating.
I still maintain, if the band members hadn't carried on going, commercialisation from Geffen kicked in on re-releases, marketing, re-tuning of the story from "herion junkie sings OK with moderately famous wife", to " blonde rock star lady with tortured genius husband leaves a baby daughter to grow up alone" he'd be a lot more forgotten.
Think of the others like Nike Drake that did a few albums then topped out, Musicos know him, not many others though......
Around the week Nevermind peaked in the charts, whom else was there, Joe Cocker, Erasure, Michael Jackson (Dangerous, again another artist famous for being dead), Sonic Youth (funny no one has mentioned them yet but they were the true grunge band that crossed over and commercialised it all, good ole Kim - Seattles equivalent to Brix in Salford's The Fall), Lionel Richie and Prefab Sprout). So UK top out at that position wasn't really something that is remembered for many other acts, of equal popularity in the day.
I remember watching 'smells like teen spirit' on MTV. I was 18 when it came out and it changed the direction of music. Nevermind is a very special record. Pretty much perfect. Only Nevermind got to number 5 in the UK on release (OK it got to 1 in States, Mooseuk, Finland etc). Can you name the bands that had the number five albums the week before or after? No, no 5 album not a great acolade. In fact the thread is a self fullfilling prophecy. It was started because of an anniversary of him killing himself, not an anniversary of mastering the horror chord, or being the first to play to 1 million at Seatac Bowl, no the thread started because he was famous for being dead!!!!!!!!!
Indeed, famous for the run up to his death, very famous in the music generes that he had followers in, which did cross, through the Seattle scene, into b(r)ands such as Nirvarna and others from eleswhere such as the Pixies and REM, SY, Cutflaps, Mudhoney, Fudgetunnel onto FYC etc etc, over from sub music genres into mainstream - yes he was a great part of that but not for his music but for his love of sag and self destruction - at least how our press portrayed him and press in the US music scene when Iwas over there just before he wussed out was also narrating.
I still maintain, if the band members hadn't carried on going, commercialisation from Geffen kicked in on re-releases, marketing, re-tuning of the story from "herion junkie sings OK with moderately famous wife", to " blonde rock star lady with tortured genius husband leaves a baby daughter to grow up alone" he'd be a lot more forgotten.
Think of the others like Nike Drake that did a few albums then topped out, Musicos know him, not many others though......
Around the week Nevermind peaked in the charts, whom else was there, Joe Cocker, Erasure, Michael Jackson (Dangerous, again another artist famous for being dead), Sonic Youth (funny no one has mentioned them yet but they were the true grunge band that crossed over and commercialised it all, good ole Kim - Seattles equivalent to Brix in Salford's The Fall), Lionel Richie and Prefab Sprout). So UK top out at that position wasn't really something that is remembered for many other acts, of equal popularity in the day.
What's interesting is that Nirvana were largely done by the time Kobain died.
I remember seeing a friends 14 year old son in a Nirvana tee shirt in the early 2000's and it made me realise the lasting impact of the band.
When my own son got into them 10 years later, then I knew.
Commercial success is irrelevant. Nirvana are a moment in time and their music will endure.
Gassing Station | Music | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff