Fooookin ticket touts! :(
Discussion
Received an email a few weeks ago from the Pearl Jam website telling me about their up an coming European tour. Yey! As I am a member (and have been for many years) I was virtually guaranteed a couple of tickets. Amazing I thought!
Received further notice of when the pre-sale tickets would be on sale for members. (Getting more excited)!
Logged in to the website 4:00 GMT (as it opened PST). Message says......you are in a queue, we will connect you to the checkout as soon as possible etc etc......Waited and waited......errr.....and waited.
New message.......site has gone down etc etc......we will let you know via email...yadda yadda....
Received an email saying that the tickets have all been handed over to our partners in the UK (Ticketmaster) as someone has hacked into the site and buggered up the systems (twice). The tickets will go on general sale at 9:00 GMT (this morning). Logged into the site at 9:00 this morning......Sorry no tickets available etc etc. How is that possible? 12,000 tickets gone in less than 10 mins! Supposedly....Max 6 tickets per person.
Now I'm not a conspiracy theorist by any stretch but am I mistaken in thinking that this hacking, all the tickets gone etc might be somehow linked to ticket touts?
As some of you may know, Pearl Jam are quite keen on security and not letting their tickets (as much as is physically possible) get into the hands of touts by letting fans get their hands on tickets before they go on general sale.
Sorry for the long drawn out post but I am genuinely peed off!
Can someone enlighten me? Am i just being naive or does this happen all the time?
Received further notice of when the pre-sale tickets would be on sale for members. (Getting more excited)!
Logged in to the website 4:00 GMT (as it opened PST). Message says......you are in a queue, we will connect you to the checkout as soon as possible etc etc......Waited and waited......errr.....and waited.
New message.......site has gone down etc etc......we will let you know via email...yadda yadda....
Received an email saying that the tickets have all been handed over to our partners in the UK (Ticketmaster) as someone has hacked into the site and buggered up the systems (twice). The tickets will go on general sale at 9:00 GMT (this morning). Logged into the site at 9:00 this morning......Sorry no tickets available etc etc. How is that possible? 12,000 tickets gone in less than 10 mins! Supposedly....Max 6 tickets per person.
Now I'm not a conspiracy theorist by any stretch but am I mistaken in thinking that this hacking, all the tickets gone etc might be somehow linked to ticket touts?
As some of you may know, Pearl Jam are quite keen on security and not letting their tickets (as much as is physically possible) get into the hands of touts by letting fans get their hands on tickets before they go on general sale.
Sorry for the long drawn out post but I am genuinely peed off!
Can someone enlighten me? Am i just being naive or does this happen all the time?
Happened for V Festival. f
king ridiculous, out of the 20odd people in our group only one of us managed to get a couple of tickets when they went on sale. Rest of us had to wait for genuine 'can no longer go' tickets to come up on ebay for face value, majority were touts selling for £50+ markup.
king ridiculous, out of the 20odd people in our group only one of us managed to get a couple of tickets when they went on sale. Rest of us had to wait for genuine 'can no longer go' tickets to come up on ebay for face value, majority were touts selling for £50+ markup.I'm not sure I really understand the economics of touting.
If there was 'cash on the table' for the touts to take by simply buying and selling on, why don't the venues/acts act in their own interests and just increase their prices to the equilibrium point?
What function do the touts perform in the chain? If the touts know they can sell tickets on at a profit, presumably they don't have any special knowledge unavailable to the promoters, so why don't the promoters price the touts out?
If there was 'cash on the table' for the touts to take by simply buying and selling on, why don't the venues/acts act in their own interests and just increase their prices to the equilibrium point?
What function do the touts perform in the chain? If the touts know they can sell tickets on at a profit, presumably they don't have any special knowledge unavailable to the promoters, so why don't the promoters price the touts out?
egomeister said:
i don't know why most gigs don't use personalised tickets, where need to take ID or you aren't let in.
That's what Pearl Jam usually do, ID on the night of the gig quite close to concert time to minimise the tout factor. Obviously the touts are getting more sophisticated. 
BarnatosGhost said:
If there was 'cash on the table' for the touts to take by simply buying and selling on, why don't the venues/acts act in their own interests and just increase their prices to the equilibrium point?
What function do the touts perform in the chain? If the touts know they can sell tickets on at a profit, presumably they don't have any special knowledge unavailable to the promoters, so why don't the promoters price the touts out?
Havent you noticed how the price of tickets to major gigs has been steadily rising? Part of that is due to the fall in revenue from recording and patt of it is because it didnt go unnoticed that tickets were selling on ebay and other evil such places at hugely inflated values. Of course they cant increase ticket prices to the point where touts are squeezed out because only a small percentage of people are willing to pay those prices to most events.What function do the touts perform in the chain? If the touts know they can sell tickets on at a profit, presumably they don't have any special knowledge unavailable to the promoters, so why don't the promoters price the touts out?
To be honest I've had a very good success rate at getting tickets even to stuff that sells out in a few minutes.
RustySpanner said:
Of course they cant increase ticket prices to the point where touts are squeezed out because only a small percentage of people are willing to pay those prices to most events.
Why not? Even the most rudimentary yield management strategies would increase profits for the promoters.It works for the airlines, and it works for the railways, how is a concert (fixed date, fixed capacity) any different?
If a concert or festival sells out in 5 minutes and leaves thousands of willing buyers disappointed even a GSCE business student could tell the promoters that they've left some cash on the table. But they don't seem to care, they just consistently underprice their product and create the space for the tout to operate within.
The more I think about it, the less I think the touts are doing anything wrong.
BarnatosGhost said:
RustySpanner said:
Of course they cant increase ticket prices to the point where touts are squeezed out because only a small percentage of people are willing to pay those prices to most events.
Why not? Even the most rudimentary yield management strategies would increase profits for the promoters.It works for the airlines, and it works for the railways, how is a concert (fixed date, fixed capacity) any different?
If a concert or festival sells out in 5 minutes and leaves thousands of willing buyers disappointed even a GSCE business student could tell the promoters that they've left some cash on the table. But they don't seem to care, they just consistently underprice their product and create the space for the tout to operate within.
The more I think about it, the less I think the touts are doing anything wrong.
Thing is I'm pretty sure artists would quite like the fans to like them, massively expensive tickets probably isnt going to help that.
The other side of teh coin is this... i've lost coubnt of the number of gigs i wound't have seen if it weren't for touts, due to me forgetting to order tickers or similar situation. Ive never paid extortionate prices and have walked away in a few situatiosn, but many many gigs I wouldnt' have seen if it weren't for buying from a tout. No one was holding a gun to my head.
And on the subject of personalised tickets and bringing ID with you, all I can say is this.. Once I have bought my ticket, the act and promotoer have their cash, their part in the transacton is over, whether I go or give or sell my ticket to someone else is not their business. There were ven calls reasonably recently for some way of taking money fromyou if you sold on your ticket (god knows how they intended to police that) and it simply shows that the music industries greed genuinely knows no bounds.
PJ used to take a stand against Ticketmaster, who are the worst kind of scum going, but even they seem to aquiesce to ticketmaster these days.
And on the subject of personalised tickets and bringing ID with you, all I can say is this.. Once I have bought my ticket, the act and promotoer have their cash, their part in the transacton is over, whether I go or give or sell my ticket to someone else is not their business. There were ven calls reasonably recently for some way of taking money fromyou if you sold on your ticket (god knows how they intended to police that) and it simply shows that the music industries greed genuinely knows no bounds.
PJ used to take a stand against Ticketmaster, who are the worst kind of scum going, but even they seem to aquiesce to ticketmaster these days.
RustySpanner said:
BarnatosGhost said:
RustySpanner said:
Of course they cant increase ticket prices to the point where touts are squeezed out because only a small percentage of people are willing to pay those prices to most events.
Why not? Even the most rudimentary yield management strategies would increase profits for the promoters.It works for the airlines, and it works for the railways, how is a concert (fixed date, fixed capacity) any different?
If a concert or festival sells out in 5 minutes and leaves thousands of willing buyers disappointed even a GSCE business student could tell the promoters that they've left some cash on the table. But they don't seem to care, they just consistently underprice their product and create the space for the tout to operate within.
The more I think about it, the less I think the touts are doing anything wrong.
Thing is I'm pretty sure artists would quite like the fans to like them, massively expensive tickets probably isnt going to help that.
I doubt many artists have meetings with their management and promoters in which they demand they charge less for tickets to thier shows...
I don't care either way as I don't watch live music, I'm just interested in the economics of the situation, and why promoters let touts insert themselves into the process and in doing so take money they might regard as 'rightfully' theirs.
BarnatosGhost said:
If a concert or festival sells out in 5 minutes and leaves thousands of willing buyers disappointed even a GSCE business student could tell the promoters that they've left some cash on the table. But they don't seem to care, they just consistently underprice their product and create the space for the tout to operate within.
Touts thrive on the desperation factor of people who could not initially get tickets or forgot to buy them. If a ticket for a gig is £40 and the touts are selling at £80, if the promoter increases the price to £80 then the touts will go up to £120 and so on. This will then lead to people saying "It's too expensive" because when they aren't faced with that desperation factor (and the fact that what used to cost them £40 now costs what a tout used to charge) they will just think they are being ripped off and not bother buying a ticket in the first place.Interesting insight here from someone within the music industry:
http://forum.nin.com/bb/read.php?59,548515
http://forum.nin.com/bb/read.php?59,548515
1800 to see that whiny voiced gob ste, I'd not go if it was free.
There is nowt wrong with reselling your tickets if you have one spare or cant go but the mass buying of them to flog really needs controlling.
Though you could argue Ticketmaster, See tickets or any of that lot are just legalised touts with big margins and big booking fees.
te, I'd not go if it was free.There is nowt wrong with reselling your tickets if you have one spare or cant go but the mass buying of them to flog really needs controlling.
Though you could argue Ticketmaster, See tickets or any of that lot are just legalised touts with big margins and big booking fees.
Xeno said:
Nothing wrong with it at all, I cannot see a difference between this and, say, buying shares in a company you think is undervalued.
So in order to buy a ticket to a gig we're all supposed to take a day or at least a morning off work, set-up around half a dozen laptops and several phones running an almost military operation? And if we don't do that we must simply resign ourselves to paying double or triple the retail price.Tickets sell quickly, everyone knows that and god knows I've been to enough gigs in my lifetime and spent enough time frantically pressing redial on my phone or refresh on my computer at 9am on a Friday (while hoping the boss didn't notice...) to get tickets to particular gigs. But what irritates me is the professional touts with systems in place to outbuy everyone, then forcibly create another level for themselves in the chain that didn't exist because the tickets were already on general release.
If you were told that the entire production run of the car you wanted to buy had been purchased by a few herberts who would then try to sell you one for double the price, I'm sure you'd be a fraction peevish.
The market forces argument only goes so far for me. I enjoy a lovely cup of tea almost as much as life itself, but if I went to Sainsburys at 9am to buy a box of Twinings and discovered that a gang of scallies with 10-trolley roadtrains had jammed up the aisles, bought all the tea in the place, then set up a scabby market stall in the car park selling it on for a massive mark-up, I'd vote with my feet and start drinking more coffee.
Someone above mentioned putting retail ticket prices up to tout prices. Yeah, great, thanks a lot...
But Sainsbury's have already done that - they bought a load of tea, raised the price, and found individuals to sell it to. Retail.
A tout buys a load of tickets, raises the price, and finds individuals to sell them to. Also just a retailer.
Nobody complains about Sainsbury's interfering in the market for tea.
The music/festival industry creates the market opportunity for touting by consistently underpricing their products. Then they complain about people taking advantage of the opportunity.
Just like ASDA create a market opportunity for corner-shop proprietors by selling beans at 20p which someone just down the road will pay 50p for.
A tout buys a load of tickets, raises the price, and finds individuals to sell them to. Also just a retailer.
Nobody complains about Sainsbury's interfering in the market for tea.
The music/festival industry creates the market opportunity for touting by consistently underpricing their products. Then they complain about people taking advantage of the opportunity.
Just like ASDA create a market opportunity for corner-shop proprietors by selling beans at 20p which someone just down the road will pay 50p for.
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