Beer Quality - declining or changing tastes?
Discussion
I've been a big fan of the modern styles that have become ubiquitous over the last 10 years of so, you know the US influenced heavily hopped so called 'craft' beers.
I've just spent a weekend with friends in Saltaire/Shipley to try out many of the bars around there and in particular revisit the Salt Brewery. We do this regularly and travel to different cities by train to experience the micro pubs and their offerings.
Over the whole weekend I didn't find a single beer that hit the spot - most are either far too strong or else over hopped to the point of being insipid. Sours I just can't get away with! We were all of the same view. Salt only do keg stuff now, though they sell the Ossett beer (I assume they have acquired this brewery?) on cask. Keg is a rip off in my view anyway and even the Jute which I normally quite enjoy was 'odd'.
...there seems to be an after 'tang' in all these beers types now that I find a bit unpleasant. One of the group described one as tasting 'soapy'
By the end of the weekend I started to look for dark beers, and even had a few Timothy Taylor 'Dark' beers and one or two Chocolate Porters that I enjoyed.
This got me wondering whether brewers are changing something to reduce cost or whether I've just got tired of the modern IPA style and reached 'peak hoppy'
Anyone have any similar thoughts or observations?
I've just spent a weekend with friends in Saltaire/Shipley to try out many of the bars around there and in particular revisit the Salt Brewery. We do this regularly and travel to different cities by train to experience the micro pubs and their offerings.
Over the whole weekend I didn't find a single beer that hit the spot - most are either far too strong or else over hopped to the point of being insipid. Sours I just can't get away with! We were all of the same view. Salt only do keg stuff now, though they sell the Ossett beer (I assume they have acquired this brewery?) on cask. Keg is a rip off in my view anyway and even the Jute which I normally quite enjoy was 'odd'.
...there seems to be an after 'tang' in all these beers types now that I find a bit unpleasant. One of the group described one as tasting 'soapy'
By the end of the weekend I started to look for dark beers, and even had a few Timothy Taylor 'Dark' beers and one or two Chocolate Porters that I enjoyed.
This got me wondering whether brewers are changing something to reduce cost or whether I've just got tired of the modern IPA style and reached 'peak hoppy'
Anyone have any similar thoughts or observations?
I've never been into these new fangled craft beers, much rather prefer a decent amber ale from a 'normal' brewery.
Most of the time for me, they are just coming up with increasingly dafter ideas to be seen as alternative etc when in fact it just makes it unpalletable like you suggest.
Most of the time for me, they are just coming up with increasingly dafter ideas to be seen as alternative etc when in fact it just makes it unpalletable like you suggest.
blue_haddock said:
I've never been into these new fangled craft beers, much rather prefer a decent amber ale from a 'normal' brewery.
Back in the day people shifted to drinking lager because the keg beers were so awful. Then a decent market developed for the mainstream session beers - not too much flavour and not too much alcohol. Now there are so many specialist and craft beers on every bar that a pint of Peroni looks increasingly attractive.On the other hand, don't get me started on the concept of a pint of Camden ale in a floppy plastic glass....
There are still a lot of good quality craft beers around, as well as lots of mediocre ones too and of course some bad ones. I would put Salt more in the mediocre category. I use untappd when searching through a pubs menu, in order to get an idea of what I want and if a beer has a good rating, then I'm more likely to give it a go. I mean there are occasions when I've tried a very highly rated beer and not enjoyed it and vice versa, but if a beer has a rating of say 4.5, then chances are that it will be a decent beer. I don't think that it is a case of declining, more that there is more choice now available and thus more chance of having something mediocre, as opposed to really good or really bad.
Edited by NSNO on Friday 30th June 08:46
NSNO said:
There are still a lot of good quality craft beers around, as well as lots of mediocre ones too and of course some bad ones. I would put Salt more in the mediocre category. I use untappd when searching through a pubs menu, in order to get an idea of what I want and if a beer has a good rating, then I'm more likely to give it a go. I mean there are occasions when I've tried a very highly rated beer and not enjoyed it and vice versa, but if a beer has a rating of say 4.5, then chances are that it will be a decent beer. I don't think that it is a case of declining, more than there is more choice now available and thus more chance of having something mediocre, as opposed to really good or really bad.
You make a very good point and I think you may well have explained it. That said I've been driking Salt beer for some years now and I'm sure it's not what it was - their move to keg only may be one explanationOn the upside one brewery who IMO make consistently good, and very interesting, offerings is Twice Brewed and I'm fortunate enough to live just along the road from them:
https://www.twicebrewedbrewhouse.co.uk/
blue_haddock said:
....
Most of the time for me, they are just coming up with increasingly dafter ideas to be seen as alternative etc when in fact it just makes it unpalatable like you suggest.
Indeed. I like a hoppy beer as much as the next man, but I gaze upon the 'craft beer' shelf in the supermarket and shake my head at the nonsense flavours they offer - is the market youngsters who have grown up drinking dismal Monster Energy drinks?Most of the time for me, they are just coming up with increasingly dafter ideas to be seen as alternative etc when in fact it just makes it unpalatable like you suggest.
As for the OP's point about changing recipes, I suspect that all breweries must be tweaking their recipes due to increased costs (let alone a race to the bottom on prices due to a ever more crowded marketplace).
Also, I wonder if many places have too many craft keg lines for the turnover they get, so even with the extended shelf life of keg over cask they are still past their best?
There are plenty of really good breweries around brewing really good beer.
The great thing about beer now is there is something for everyone. I've grown bored of the "hop bombs" now, especially as if you buy a few different cans from the same brewery it's often difficult to tell them apart.
Ultimately, the number of breweries closing down shows that if you aren't making what people want, the future is pretty bleak, so I'm guessing the ones that are still around are hitting their target audience.
Then there are the macros pumping out cost reduced crap - Greene King IPA is a best seller nationwide and it's piss or Doombar, which is a shadow of what it used to be, and I'd not drink it if was the only beer on.
For me (at the moment at least) on a hot summers day there is nothing better than a nice cold pint of Northern Monk Faith, or Deya Steady Rolling Man. But I'm equally happy drinking a traditional bitter, ESB, IPA etc.
The great thing about beer now is there is something for everyone. I've grown bored of the "hop bombs" now, especially as if you buy a few different cans from the same brewery it's often difficult to tell them apart.
Ultimately, the number of breweries closing down shows that if you aren't making what people want, the future is pretty bleak, so I'm guessing the ones that are still around are hitting their target audience.
Then there are the macros pumping out cost reduced crap - Greene King IPA is a best seller nationwide and it's piss or Doombar, which is a shadow of what it used to be, and I'd not drink it if was the only beer on.
For me (at the moment at least) on a hot summers day there is nothing better than a nice cold pint of Northern Monk Faith, or Deya Steady Rolling Man. But I'm equally happy drinking a traditional bitter, ESB, IPA etc.
There's plenty of good quality beers out there but the problem is availability for me. You have to know where to get them or be close to places that sell them. Beer got spoilt for me when I went to Belgium in 2012 and I realised there and then that the general fair in standard shops or pubs just wasn't going to cut it anymore.
I'm not a craft beer or IPA lover and I detest lager but used to drink real ales. Now they seem really poor after a nice Trappist beer or even a good Weissbier.
There are a few bars I know that sell good beer and I stock up from certain online sellers when I need to. I'm staying in a lovely town at the minute but have walked out of several nice pubs just because I really fancied a beer and there were no decent ones to choose from. I'm a beer snob and get some looks from bar staff when I say "it's OK thanks, I'll leave it." and walk out.
I'm not a craft beer or IPA lover and I detest lager but used to drink real ales. Now they seem really poor after a nice Trappist beer or even a good Weissbier.
There are a few bars I know that sell good beer and I stock up from certain online sellers when I need to. I'm staying in a lovely town at the minute but have walked out of several nice pubs just because I really fancied a beer and there were no decent ones to choose from. I'm a beer snob and get some looks from bar staff when I say "it's OK thanks, I'll leave it." and walk out.
Al Gorithum said:
Motorman74 said:
ESB
ESB you say eh? That used to me my favourite but they've changed it over the years. I think it's a bit over 5% now on tap and 5.9% bottled but nowhere as nice as it was 40-odd years ago. I still have it mixed with Golden Pride though. Don Roque said:
Yes, I find all these daft over-hopped IPA's quite poor overall. However, any darker bitter, stout or porter will usually find favour with me so long as it's of a reasonable quality. I don't really bother with anything labelled as a 'blonde' or any IPA these days.
Titanic Plum Porter is bloody delicious:https://www.titanicbrewery.co.uk/
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