Sourdough breadmaking

[illmonkey]

21TonyK said:

Couple of pics back is 72.5%

If you do baguettes try to find T55 flour to be authentic, we used to use this exclusively. Suspect its 16/25kg sacks only though,.

Not fussed by authenticity, but will all purpose or bread flour suffice? The link says "all purpose", translation from American to English is plain flour.

This one? (Was after a photo of the dough)

21TonyK said:

Think I'll have to find something big enough to try as a lid for the first part of the bake.

Edited by 21TonyK on Sunday 6th March 10:47

[21TonyK]

Pretty sure that pic is 70% but 72.5 looks the same. As for the T55 ISTR is is equivalent to UK bread flour but there is a stronger T65 and weaker T45 which we used for pastry. I think the main thing I remember is it was very fine.

[illmonkey]

Err, I had a lightbulb moment. Do you count the water in the levain toward the total? If so, I use 50ml, so running at 70% hydration...

[Whoozit]

illmonkey said:

Err, I had a lightbulb moment. Do you count the water in the levain toward the total? If so, I use 50ml, so running at 70% hydration...

Well, does it count towards the total of the dough? Then yes.

[illmonkey]

Whoozit said:

illmonkey said:

Err, I had a lightbulb moment. Do you count the water in the levain toward the total? If so, I use 50ml, so running at 70% hydration...

Well, does it count towards the total of the dough? Then yes.

So you count the water in the sourdough starter too?

[Whoozit]

illmonkey said:

So you count the water in the sourdough starter too?

Yes. If you started proving with (for argument's sake) 50% starter, it would of course affect the dough. Most general baking recipes don't adjust for the yeast addition, because it's not sourdough which has a live water/flour/yeast component!

[illmonkey]

Whoozit said:

illmonkey said:

So you count the water in the sourdough starter too?

Yes. If you started proving with (for argument's sake) 50% starter, it would of course affect the dough. Most general baking recipes don't adjust for the yeast addition, because it's not sourdough which has a live water/flour/yeast component!

How the feck do I figure out how much water I used from the starter? I used 50g, which I normally make up 50/50. So assume 25ml of water from the starter, then 50ml from the levain, plus the 475ml I use.

So I'm running 73.33%...

[21TonyK]

illmonkey said:

Whoozit said:

illmonkey said:

So you count the water in the sourdough starter too?

Yes. If you started proving with (for argument's sake) 50% starter, it would of course affect the dough. Most general baking recipes don't adjust for the yeast addition, because it's not sourdough which has a live water/flour/yeast component!

How the feck do I figure out how much water I used from the starter? I used 50g, which I normally make up 50/50. So assume 25ml of water from the starter, then 50ml from the levain, plus the 475ml I use.

So I'm running 73.33%...

I found this useful.

https://truesourdough.com/sourdough-hydration-expl...

[Whoozit]

21TonyK said:

illmonkey said:

Whoozit said:

illmonkey said:

So you count the water in the sourdough starter too?

Yes. If you started proving with (for argument's sake) 50% starter, it would of course affect the dough. Most general baking recipes don't adjust for the yeast addition, because it's not sourdough which has a live water/flour/yeast component!

How the feck do I figure out how much water I used from the starter? I used 50g, which I normally make up 50/50. So assume 25ml of water from the starter, then 50ml from the levain, plus the 475ml I use.

So I'm running 73.33%...

I found this useful.

https://truesourdough.com/sourdough-hydration-expl...

Yes to illmonkey - count all the water and all the flour in the dough. So you will want to keep track of your starter and levain percentages. For ease, I usually use 1 to 1 in both, then adjust the amount of water in the autolyse phase.

And thanks to 21Tonyk - looks a very comprehensive guide! I noted what it said about different flours. Even different batches of the same flour can vary. I had one bag of the same brand and type of rye flour, which needed 10% more flour (i.e. 1.1 to 1 of water) to get the same consistency as before.

[21TonyK]

Think I can control things much better now, this is exactly what I was expecting. Same 72.5% hydration as before 48 hour cold proof at 3C and 8 hours at 15C, baked at 220/200 for 20 and 18 minutes with water in a tray in the bottom. Greater and more even aeration.

[illmonkey]

Look good but you could lose a sausage through one of those holes!

Mine yesterday. I’d like a better crum, so will follow your path for the next one.

[21TonyK]

illmonkey said:

Look good but you could lose a sausage through one of those holes!

Thats what I've been trying to work out really. Lower hydration with less time proofing gives me a tighter crumb and more even aeration suitable for a sandwich loaf, higher hydration longer and more controlled proof gives increased aeration and bigger bubbles for everything else.

I've just ordered a couple of loaf shaped bannetons to make more user friendy shaped bread and play around with things.

Also... have another loaf proofing same as the last one but with 00 flour to bake off later today for a comparison.

[21TonyK]

Even rise, aerated without bubbles holes, and a softer crust more suited to sandwiches. 65% hydration, warm proof for 8, cold for 10, shape and warm for 6. Bakes at a lower temp 200 for 20 180 for 18 (discovered my flour contains an additive to aid browning).

[21TonyK]

Anyone using spelt flour? Did a same mix and proofing as last time but used spelt flour. Much closer texture and overall I'd say at least 25% less volume. Is that what I should expect? (Have a 72.5% hydration batch in ready for tomorrow for comparison as well)

[illmonkey]

Had a mare of a bread weekend already! I set myself up to fail and didn't give enough time

With the sour dough I didn't remember if I'd done 650g or 750g (my previous recipe was 100g wholegrain flour). I only thought about it after it's sat for a while. Decided to weigh it and it was 1070g (650g + 425ml). I'd also decided to reduce my water 25ml to give me 70% given my new found knowledge to include ALL water I'd also used a new flour, so lots of changes

It felt off the whole process, when mixing, to lift and fold, in the morning etc. Seems I was right and it wasn't as good. I can see into part of it and I think it's going to be 1 big air pocket.

No biggie, I had also done baguettes! Oh... seems my yeast is off. I followed JKRolling's link and even cut 5 mins off the end of cooking time and they are over cooked, but I wonder if they'd have been fine if they actually raised.

[21TonyK]

So many factors, any one can bugger things up. I'm keeping my method consistent now and just trying different flours. Day off today but a spelt sourdough 72.5% tomorrow and then same again on Monday but with a 14% protein flour. My experiement with 00 went in the bin, edible but not worth keeping.

[21TonyK]

Spelt, exactly as expected.



14%, warm prof was far too fast hence heavy base, will try again aiming for 100% aeration, not that it will be edible but just experimenting.

[illmonkey]

I think I'll just wait until you've found the perfect recipe Tony.

After last weeks disaster I will endeavour to go back to my old way and take more time. I don't know why I try to do too much all the time. Gotta chill out.

[21TonyK]

illmonkey said:

I think I'll just wait until you've found the perfect recipe Tony.

After last weeks disaster I will endeavour to go back to my old way and take more time. I don't know why I try to do too much all the time. Gotta chill out.

I'm just trying out a few theories with different flours and proofing methods. I'll be back at work in a month (I hope), in the meantime just experimenting.

[illmonkey]

After last week’s disaster I thought I’d go again. This uses up the crap flour and it’s more like 40% whole meal. Stuck to normal water level too. Need to remember to do one change a time!

Not the best, but a good colour, consistent crumb and that lovely whole meal flavour. I’ll take it!

Pizza dough in the fridge for tonight. Will he making baguette dough tonight to cook tomorrow. Fingers crossed for a better bread based weekend.