Sourdough breadmaking

[illmonkey]

mrsshpub said:

illmonkey said:

Banneton can suck it. I used plenty of rice flour, dusted, rolled the banneton to get it all over, dusted again. Fridge for 12 hours and got this. Makes for an interesting top though!

Glass bowl works better!

Do you spray the banneton with water before dusting it with rice flour?

No, should I? Or a muslin?

[mrsshpub]

illmonkey said:

mrsshpub said:

Do you spray the banneton with water before dusting it with rice flour?

No, should I? Or a muslin?

If you give the banneton a light spray with water the rice flour will stick to that & your dough will come out cleanly.

[illmonkey]

Turned out alright in the end, Given it a nice texture. I’d given it a H slash, to help it along

[Whoozit]

illmonkey said:

Banneton can suck it. I used plenty of rice flour, dusted, rolled the banneton to get it all over, dusted again. Fridge for 12 hours and got this. Makes for an interesting top though!

Sorry to hear that. The banneton and rice flour combo does work, honest. Here's the results from this morning's bake.

Your dough looks wet, but that might be because it was scraped out. What hydration is your recipe?

Edited by Whoozit on Saturday 19th February 17:54

[illmonkey]

Whoozit said:

Sorry to hear that. The banneton and rice flour combo does work, honest. Here's the results from this morning's bake.

Your dough looks wet, but that might be because it was scraped out. What hydration is your recipe?

Edited by Whoozit on Saturday 19th February 17:54

Yours looks ace! Well finished.

750g flour, 475ml water, so 63%.

I am going to buy an other banneton with a cloth liner and see how it goes. I smothered the last one in flour and still got that result.

[illmonkey]

Done a few more with good results. But my starter starts to go a bit nasty. A few mm of water/watered down dough. Then the starter itself is really thin. Last few times I’ve used a little less water to rectify it, but still happening.

Ideas?

Have also ordered 2 more banneton’s. One is round and smaller, as when it came out it spread and I struggle to get it in the Dutch oven. The other is oval, in the hope I can make a smaller loaf with better area for sandwiches

[Whoozit]

illmonkey said:

Done a few more with good results. But my starter starts to go a bit nasty. A few mm of water/watered down dough. Then the starter itself is really thin. Last few times I’ve used a little less water to rectify it, but still happening.

Should be equal parts your normal bread flour and water? Try doing a few back-to-back feeds/split when risen as far as it'll go/feed again, see if that perks it up. With one of the splits, worth trying a feed with dark (=whole) rye flour which is known to supercharge starters.

illmonkey said:

Have also ordered 2 more banneton’s. One is round and smaller, as when it came out it spread and I struggle to get it in the Dutch oven. The other is oval, in the hope I can make a smaller loaf with better area for sandwiches

For an oval banneton, worth looking on Youtube how to shape a batard to maximise your dough tension = height. Spreadage is otherwise down to one or more of i) overproofing ii) gluten formation iii) hydration. FWIW I've recently had to reduce my standard hydration 10% due to the alignment of the stars, or something (i.e. it stopped behaving the same way in spite of exactly the same flour and process).

[illmonkey]

Whoozit said:

illmonkey said:

Done a few more with good results. But my starter starts to go a bit nasty. A few mm of water/watered down dough. Then the starter itself is really thin. Last few times I’ve used a little less water to rectify it, but still happening.

Should be equal parts your normal bread flour and water? Try doing a few back-to-back feeds/split when risen as far as it'll go/feed again, see if that perks it up. With one of the splits, worth trying a feed with dark (=whole) rye flour which is known to supercharge starters.

illmonkey said:

Have also ordered 2 more banneton’s. One is round and smaller, as when it came out it spread and I struggle to get it in the Dutch oven. The other is oval, in the hope I can make a smaller loaf with better area for sandwiches

For an oval banneton, worth looking on Youtube how to shape a batard to maximise your dough tension = height. Spreadage is otherwise down to one or more of i) overproofing ii) gluten formation iii) hydration. FWIW I've recently had to reduce my standard hydration 10% due to the alignment of the stars, or something (i.e. it stopped behaving the same way in spite of exactly the same flour and process).

Yes, equal parts, although last night I done 60/40 to try and thicken it a bit. I'l look to get some rye flour.

I was just going to do it the same way, thanks for the tip.

[Ben Lowden]

Whoozit said:

Sorry to hear that. The banneton and rice flour combo does work, honest. Here's the results from this morning's bake.

Your dough looks wet, but that might be because it was scraped out. What hydration is your recipe?

Edited by Whoozit on Saturday 19th February 17:54

Do you have a recipe/process that you can share please? These look incredible, would love to be able to get a rise like that!

[Whoozit]

Ben Lowden said:

Do you have a recipe/process that you can share please? These look incredible, would love to be able to get a rise like that!

Happy to. This is the short version of my standard recipe with more or less user-friendly hydration, feel free to ask any questions.

150g whole rye starter (1:1)
100g whole rye flour
400g STRONG bread flour (mine is 15% protein)
375g water (78% hydration inc starter) at around 30 degrees
9g salt

1hr autolyse of water, flour and salt
Add the starter and mix well
4hr prove with 3x stretch and folds and 1x lamination in temps of 22 degrees plus and away from draughts
Shape, into banneton floured with rice flour
Overnight cold proof
Bake in dutch oven 25 mins @240C covered, 15 mins @220C uncovered

[Ben Lowden]

That's brilliant thank you, I'll get some rye flour ASAP and give it a go. My best results were my first few loaves with some out of date 00 flour that I normally use for pizza dough. I haven't tried rye flour yet, so hopefully that'll give me some better results.

[illmonkey]

Tipping out the banneton it still stuck. Here’s my rice flour and the result. I ordered a new one with cloth to arrive yesterday but it never turned up

[illmonkey]

Came out better than last weeks

[andyA700]

illmonkey said:

Came out better than last weeks

That looks great, you can see what the texture is like from the cuts. Fantastic colour and crust.

[illmonkey]

Thanks. Can’t wait for it to cool and have some!

Anyone use a kneader for the dough? I know it’s not a lot of work. But I got to thinking, if it’s all done in the same bowl it can just stay in there between folds etc.

Also, how long can it last in the fridge. I’m getting tempted to prep 2, one for a Saturday bake, one for mid week.

[andyA700]

illmonkey said:

Thanks. Can’t wait for it to cool and have some!

Anyone use a kneader for the dough? I know it’s not a lot of work. But I got to thinking, if it’s all done in the same bowl it can just stay in there between folds etc.

Also, how long can it last in the fridge. I’m getting tempted to prep 2, one for a Saturday bake, one for mid week.

I don't use a kneader, always hands in a large bowl with a bit of olice oil so the dough doesn't strick to my hands. I watched an old Paul Hollywood episeode where he went to New York and watched a guy making superb, no knead bread in a dutch oven. I think I am going to try it again, because I just make standard baguettes/ciabatta with a 600g flour, 500ml water mix - very wet dough, which I think would work well with this method.

[Bonefish Blues]

I use the Nigella no-knead recipe with modest success.

[J8 SVG]

illmonkey said:

Tipping out the banneton it still stuck. Here’s my rice flour and the result. I ordered a new one with cloth to arrive yesterday but it never turned up

Do you rest your shaped dough and then shape it again after a 15 minute rest? might help develop more of a skin

[illmonkey]

andyA700 said:

illmonkey said:

Thanks. Can’t wait for it to cool and have some!

Anyone use a kneader for the dough? I know it’s not a lot of work. But I got to thinking, if it’s all done in the same bowl it can just stay in there between folds etc.

Also, how long can it last in the fridge. I’m getting tempted to prep 2, one for a Saturday bake, one for mid week.

I don't use a kneader, always hands in a large bowl with a bit of olice oil so the dough doesn't strick to my hands. I watched an old Paul Hollywood episeode where he went to New York and watched a guy making superb, no knead bread in a dutch oven. I think I am going to try it again, because I just make standard baguettes/ciabatta with a 600g flour, 500ml water mix - very wet dough, which I think would work well with this method.

I'm doing a no knead version as well, but I'm being super lazy. there are 3 mixes, just thinking if it was in a mixer, it'd be quicker/tidier. Could even do the folds in it.

J8 SVG said:

illmonkey said:

Tipping out the banneton it still stuck. Here’s my rice flour and the result. I ordered a new one with cloth to arrive yesterday but it never turned up

Do you rest your shaped dough and then shape it again after a 15 minute rest? might help develop more of a skin

No, it goes from the glass bowl I use to do the folds into the banneton, then fridged over night. It then gets turned out onto the parchment paper and into the hot dutch oven.

Are you saying by shaping it and leaving it out, the outside will dry out a bit?

[J8 SVG]

illmonkey said:

No, it goes from the glass bowl I use to do the folds into the banneton, then fridged over night. It then gets turned out onto the parchment paper and into the hot dutch oven.

Are you saying by shaping it and leaving it out, the outside will dry out a bit?

Pretty much, yes - shaping is a very important part at the end of the process to make a stretched out, tight skin on the loaf - this shouldn't stick as much.. shouldn't..