Boat Ownership

[Seti]

Something that cropped up in conversation but no-one knew the answer to;

How is the ownership of a boat proved? Boats are more likely to cross into other countries so is there something similar to a log book but internationally recognised?

If you buy a boat how do you know you are buying it from someone who has a right to sell it?

Thanks!

[Simpo Two]

I bought mine from a broker and they provided a contract document. As well as the last owner's details it has great headings like 'Flag and Port of Registry' and 'Gross Registered Tonnage'

I suppose if you bought a boat privately you'd have a receipt from the previous owner, like a car. I don't know if there's an 'international register of boats', but I'm sure the EU and other authorities like to know the whereabouts of everything so they can watch it and tax it.

[MOTORVATOR]

Register of British Ships.

2 types of registration. Part 1 or Part 3.

A part 1 reg registers title and mortgage whereas a part 3 reg (SSR) is a simple document to show other states that she is registered here but doesn't record title etc.

Parts 2 and 4 refer to fishing vessels and commercial use.

Neither is mandatory for the average pleasure vessel other than to show EU countries that responsibility for the tax status lies here rather there.

The registration also has an effect on the legal behaviour on board i.e. being subject to our laws albeit on the high seas.

Other than that you have to rely on a previous bill of sale and ideally a full ownership record.

Rest of the EU tends to regulate heavily whereas we have always refused to do so mainly defended by the RYA. I fully expect to get bumraped soon though as the interfering tossers try to run our country for us.

[Simpo Two]

MOTORVATOR said:

Rest of the EU tends to regulate heavily whereas we have always refused to do so mainly defended by the RYA. I fully expect to get bumraped soon though as the interfering tossers try to run our country for us.

We've already been raped by BSS regulations, tax on fuel and licence fees. The licence for my modest boat costs more than the car and I can only use it for 7 months of the year, grr.

[m0ssy]

Have just run through all this and was a touch suprised myself at the lack of paperwork involved.

there seems to be:

Bill of sale

Changing of register of british ships

Insurance document

Waterways license (depending on where you are moored and travel, but have come to the conclusion that the Environment Agency are rapists)

Mooring details in the boats name and owners name

A set of keys


Have I left anything out?

[Simpo Two]

m0ssy said:

Have I left anything out?

That seems more than enough; we buy boats to get away from all that crap.

EA - you on the Fens? Twice the cost of the Broads Authority. Surprisingly, insurance was optional until this year.

[MOTORVATOR]

m0ssy said:

Have just run through all this and was a touch suprised myself at the lack of paperwork involved.

there seems to be:

Bill of sale

Changing of register of british ships

Insurance document

Waterways license (depending on where you are moored and travel, but have come to the conclusion that the Environment Agency are rapists)

Mooring details in the boats name and owners name

A set of keys


Have I left anything out?

None of which is mandatory Mossy if you are using a boat at sea with the one exception of the River Crouch which is the only Harbour Authority in Britain with it's own act of parliament. Its limits extend out to sea. They to be honest are a shining example of why it should not be mandatory.

RYA have always argued for self regulation on the water and I'm thankful they have. Can you imagine a waterborne version of the DVLA with the cobblers of SORN etc when a boat is stuck on the hard or your jetski is stuck in the garage?

[m0ssy]

On the Thames simpo, I hade the pleasure of paying £375.84 for 2011 for a 28' boat. However, there is no point not paying as the Environment Agency will catch up with you at a lock or your mooring at somepoint so needs must.

The rules for the Thames below Teddington Lock are pretty good. All that is required is a Boat Safety Certificate and perhaps 3rd party insurance. Although the chances of being stopped and asked to produce it are pretty rare I rekon. Also the London Port Authority are a decent bunch as are the River Police from experience so far. They have been pleasant, helpful and informative (especially the lot at Richmond lock). However the Environment Agency have been aholes to date. Fairly unhelpful on the phone and pretty arrogent face to face.

However I am very happy with the decision to buy the boat. I contemplated buying another car (a cerb) and came close but suddenly had a moment of clarity when stuck in traffic one day.

Driving on the roads (especially round my area) is no longer pleasurable and stress-free (unless you get up at 0500 on a sunday to do it)

However, the river, is the nicest, pleasurable stress-free environment you could wish for, no traffic, no dheads, just smiles for nautical miles!, tidal or non-tidal, absolutely fantastic

[m0ssy]

MOTORVATOR said:

None of which is mandatory Mossy if you are using a boat at sea with the one exception of the River Crouch which is the only Harbour Authority in Britain with it's own act of parliament. Its limits extend out to sea. They to be honest are a shining example of why it should not be mandatory.

RYA have always argued for self regulation on the water and I'm thankful they have. Can you imagine a waterborne version of the DVLA with the cobblers of SORN etc when a boat is stuck on the hard or your jetski is stuck in the garage?

Sounds good, I have a Southend and Medway trip to plan this spring before having a venture out into the Sea

Need to get accustomed to my VHF a bit tbh, LPA mentioned I need permission to go through the Thames Barrier the other day at Richmond Lock and gave me a small book with all their channels/ frequencies which will be helpful.

As you said, thankfully the RYA seems pretty sensible, and not seizing opportunities to gain further funding or supply the government with more revenue with red tape etc

[Simpo Two]

m0ssy said:

On the Thames simpo, I hade the pleasure of paying £375.84 for 2011 for a 28' boat. However, there is no point not paying as the Environment Agency will catch up with you at a lock or your mooring at somepoint so needs must.

Indeed. The tariffs for the Fens may be the same, I don't know, but for a 23 last year it as £288. When I rang to renew they said there used to be a £2 admin fee but that was now scrapped, and the fee this year was £290.... go figure!

Sent my cheque off a few weeks ago, no licence has arrived and they haven't cashed the cheque.

m0ssy said:

However, the river, is the nicest, pleasurable stress-free environment you could wish for, no traffic, no dheads, just smiles for nautical miles!, tidal or non-tidal, absolutely fantastic

Absolutely. The hard part is trying NOT to have a schedule. I find myself thinking 'Right, today I'm going to go to X and have lunch at Y so I need to leave by Z...' Nooooo! Just toddle up the river, no destination, no times, beer, doze off on the seat...

Edited by Simpo Two on Wednesday 4th May 16:14

[MOTORVATOR]

m0ssy said:

MOTORVATOR said:

None of which is mandatory Mossy if you are using a boat at sea with the one exception of the River Crouch which is the only Harbour Authority in Britain with it's own act of parliament. Its limits extend out to sea. They to be honest are a shining example of why it should not be mandatory.

RYA have always argued for self regulation on the water and I'm thankful they have. Can you imagine a waterborne version of the DVLA with the cobblers of SORN etc when a boat is stuck on the hard or your jetski is stuck in the garage?

Sounds good, I have a Southend and Medway trip to plan this spring before having a venture out into the Sea

Need to get accustomed to my VHF a bit tbh, LPA mentioned I need permission to go through the Thames Barrier the other day at Richmond Lock and gave me a small book with all their channels/ frequencies which will be helpful.

As you said, thankfully the RYA seems pretty sensible, and not seizing opportunities to gain further funding or supply the government with more revenue with red tape etc

If you do Southend and Medway then you will have experienced the same if not worse than you will experience at sea given the same weather conditions. It can get quite lumpy coming through Canvey Point if wind is against tide. Let me know when you've planned it and I might just invite you aboard for a beer.

Another one worth thinking of is to make for Havengore bridge which puts you inside of Foulness Island and into the rivers Roach and Crouch. If you fancy it let me know before you attempt it as there are some crucial points to consider.

Thames barrier is not daunting so don't worry. If you don't radio in at all they don't actually get the hump. Other than that it is a simple call for permission and they will tell you what span to take because we are all blind and can't see the green lights and red crosses.

You might get stopped the first time through as the police like to keep tabs on comings and goings but once they have your details they will leave you alone.

Just stick the VHF on Ch14 which is London VTS until past Tilbury and then stick with 16 from there. Ch80 if you want to get into a marina.

Above all plan your journey so that you are not fighting the tide. The Thames has real currents that can half or double your journey time easily even for a planing hull.

Now we just have to convince Simpo that it is easy journey from the Wash when the North Sea has gale force winds and we can right old Ph meet up.

My one and only objection to the RYA is that I don't feel they support powerboat racing they way they should do. They have set themselves up as the governing national body along with the UIM but continually ask for costs for licences, measurement certificates and officer attendances etc. My thoughts are that they should do this for free from subscriptions to support the sport rather than killing it off as is happening.

[Simpo Two]

MOTORVATOR said:

Now we just have to convince Simpo that it is easy journey from the Wash when the North Sea has gale force winds and we can right old Ph meet up.

I would probably end my journey in (a) a large yellow helicopter (b) Denmark (c) the bottom of the sea. None of which appeal awfully much. My idea of a close shave is to run aground 8 feet from the bank with a 7-foot boathook

[MOTORVATOR]

Simpo Two said:

MOTORVATOR said:

Now we just have to convince Simpo that it is easy journey from the Wash when the North Sea has gale force winds and we can right old Ph meet up.

I would probably end my journey in (a) a large yellow helicopter (b) Denmark (c) the bottom of the sea. None of which appeal awfully much. My idea of a close shave is to run aground 8 feet from the bank with a 7-foot boathook

With that level of confidence maybe you should stick to the A14 / A12 navigation route.

Did you get my last? Definitely canvas from that shot above.

[m0ssy]

MOTORVATOR said:

Let me know when you've planned it and I might just invite you aboard for a beer.

I would be more than happy to step aboard and help drink your boats beer with the Captains permission of course

MOTORVATOR said:

Now we just have to convince Simpo that it is easy journey from the Wash when the North Sea has gale force winds and we can right old Ph meet up.

Indeed, right you are. Come on Simpo what do you rekon?

[m0ssy]

Simpo Two said:

I would probably end my journey in (a) a large yellow helicopter (b) Denmark (c) the bottom of the sea. None of which appeal awfully much. My idea of a close shave is to run aground 8 feet from the bank with a 7-foot boathook

I hear those freemans are a good seaworthy vessel simpo, you will be fine

[MOTORVATOR]

m0ssy said:

Simpo Two said:

I would probably end my journey in (a) a large yellow helicopter (b) Denmark (c) the bottom of the sea. None of which appeal awfully much. My idea of a close shave is to run aground 8 feet from the bank with a 7-foot boathook

I hear those freemans are a good seaworthy vessel simpo, you will be fine

Yeah, where's your sense of adventure. You'd have been a lot of good in operation dynamo.

[Simpo Two]

'Give me the tools and I'll finish the job' as Churchill said

(ie something about 70 feet long with two fk-off diesels, AA guns, and other vessels to follow)

The big Freemans do in fact have twin Thornycroft 180hp diesels and can just about get on the plane. However mine has one 35hp 40-year-old car engine and a top speed of about 7kts... no use for offshore.



NB Thanks for the pix; I'll have another think.

[Ritchie335is]

For anybody thats interested...

http://www.dft.gov.uk/mca/bill_of_sale.pdf