Nimrod R1 Out of Service date put back
Discussion
Reported on another forum, the retirement of the last two Electronic Intelligence gathering Nimrods has been put back.
They were due to be retired at the end of March.
Interesting that world events have given the R1 a few extra months, when we would have otherwise been on a capability holiday.
They were due to be retired at the end of March.
Interesting that world events have given the R1 a few extra months, when we would have otherwise been on a capability holiday.
As a politician once said "Events, dear boy, events".
You can have all the cost cutting strategies you want but trying to predict future defence capability requirements in an unpredictable world is impossible.
Here we are, mere weeks since the demise of a large chunk of our capability in a situation where we could do with some of it back.
You can have all the cost cutting strategies you want but trying to predict future defence capability requirements in an unpredictable world is impossible.
Here we are, mere weeks since the demise of a large chunk of our capability in a situation where we could do with some of it back.
If decision-makers sometimes looked back as well as forwards they would know that defence projects always overrun budget, are always late, and that old planes/ships due to be retired are kept going with gaffer tape while the late ones fail to materialise. If they planned for all this - eg double the budget and add five years to the operational date, they might be somewhere close. But then the next Government will come in and change everything, so there's no point really. Democracy is great isn't it?
Government projects go overbudget and over time because on day 1 someone turns up and asks for a single seat fighter, a couple of months /years in someone then says wouldn't it be nice if it could do bombing as well, so they add the requirement. The world situation changes and someone comes up and says can we add STOL? so its added, oh yeah and can we add a second seat for a navigator/bombadier as we forgot when we added the bomber requirement. A few sessions of this and potentially more technical less obvious tweaks means the order has gone more complex and the quantity has decressed.
Imagine going to VAG as a fleet buyer wanting a 1000 special order Foxes but as time progresses you change to 1000 Golfs then decide you want 500 Passats, then just before the order is completed deciding actually 100 Veyrons would fit the bill. The changes will incur costs and knock on to delivery.
Imagine going to VAG as a fleet buyer wanting a 1000 special order Foxes but as time progresses you change to 1000 Golfs then decide you want 500 Passats, then just before the order is completed deciding actually 100 Veyrons would fit the bill. The changes will incur costs and knock on to delivery.
Simpo Two said:
If decision-makers sometimes looked back as well as forwards they would know that defence projects always overrun budget, are always late, and that old planes/ships due to be retired are kept going with gaffer tape while the late ones fail to materialise. If they planned for all this - eg double the budget and add five years to the operational date, they might be somewhere close. But then the next Government will come in and change everything, so there's no point really. Democracy is great isn't it?
Rivetjoint isn't due until 2014. Did someone mention a capability gap?I have read the extension is for a further 90 days. One is in Afghanistan providing support to ground troops, well it was two weeks ago, the other, well you can make a guess where that one is.
I have read that initially the RAF were going to be operating US RC135s, alongside USAF crews from Mildenhall until the RAF RC-135s come in to service. However with recent events, it must have forced them to squeeze a bit more life from the R1s.
The R1 retirement had been planned a year ago at least, so unlike the maritime patrol MRA4 was not a victim of the SDSR.
I have read that initially the RAF were going to be operating US RC135s, alongside USAF crews from Mildenhall until the RAF RC-135s come in to service. However with recent events, it must have forced them to squeeze a bit more life from the R1s.
The R1 retirement had been planned a year ago at least, so unlike the maritime patrol MRA4 was not a victim of the SDSR.
As Eric says the MR Nimrods were RAF. The R1 and the MR1 were closely related, the original 3 R1s being delivered to 51 Sqn (originally at Wyton, now at Waddington since 1995) in 1971 as conversions of extant MR1 airframes.
After the loss of XW666 on 16 May 1995, which ditched in the Moray Firth following an uncontrolled hot gas leak in the starboard wing during a post-servicing Flight Test, Nimrod MR2 XV249 was converted to R1 standard.
There is a great deal of commonality between types since the basic airframe and engine fit was unchanged. The major differences revolve around the mission equipment and sensors fitted to the 2 types.
After the loss of XW666 on 16 May 1995, which ditched in the Moray Firth following an uncontrolled hot gas leak in the starboard wing during a post-servicing Flight Test, Nimrod MR2 XV249 was converted to R1 standard.
There is a great deal of commonality between types since the basic airframe and engine fit was unchanged. The major differences revolve around the mission equipment and sensors fitted to the 2 types.
Edited by Ginetta G15 Girl on Friday 11th March 20:12
martin mrt said:
Great to hear, with all the uncertainty in the middle east at the moment i fear that the goverments short sighted and hashed defence cuts are going to come back and bite them in the arse
Whilst I agree in theory, I'm not quite so sure about that in practice. Some of the most useful kit we have has been purchased under Urgent Operational Requirement situations (Oh crap, we didn't foresee that, buy what we can to do the job now!)In recent years it's been responsible for us having Reaper UAVs rather than the Phoenix or delayed Watchkeeper, Jackal Armored Patrol vehicles rather than Land Rovers, Osprey body armour, Warthog APCs, better countermeasures, machine guns on the helicopters... A massive amount of stuff. The most telling thing is that it's all out there doing the job.
The need for the Jackal was identified in July 2007 and it was in service by November the same year, then in Afghanistan in early 2008. The Warthog was requested in December 2008, and in Afghanistan by mid 2010 - replacing the Viking which was identified as needed in 2001 under the standard procurement process and went to Afghanistan in late 2006; we got less than a year of active service out of that before discovering it didn't do the job - a ridiculous waste of money!
It seems to me that if the MoD took less of a crystal ball attitude making large acquisitons of what might we need in 15 years, to smaller acquisitions of what do we need right now - or at least for shorter time periods were there is less uncertainty, then we would be in a lot less of a mess than we are now.
So far as I can see the problem with that is keeping defence suppliers in business, and relying on production capability being available when you need it. In the event of a real 'world war' where things like buying things from europe or america wasn't possible the idea rather rapidly comes apart.
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