Buying a yacht - What's a sensible offer?

[maser_spyder]

Hi all,

I know there's a couple of brokers on here, so just after some advice as to the state of the market at the moment.

Looking to buy a c£120k yacht, second hand, around 3-5 years old. There's plenty about, might buy abroad in Europe, as the specific model I would like is more popular further east, and more choice of vessels. Would also be a fun sail back.

So, assuming I've eyed up a couple of boats that have been on the market for around six months and still available, what would be a sensible offer? I don't want to destroy negotiations at an early stage with a silly offer, but then I've never been one to pay over the odds either.

I'm assuming 20% lower than asking price is an insult, and 10% less is more like opening a sensible negotiation, but at the same time, judging from the london boat show stories, the yacht market is on it's arse right now and there's possibly potential for a good deal.

Might part-ex, or sell privately, or keep my current yacht, not sure yet. I'm not sure I'm quite ready to introduce myself as 'Commodore' yet...

Thanks!

[MOTORVATOR]

My recent experience last summer says it's about knowing what the sellers position is. In selling my 34 foot Sunseeker I was made many offers of half the value by chancers but eventually let it go at 25% under market as I had done the deal on the new baby and needed the money in.

The new toy, a 46 foot Sunseeker had been on the market for ever and a day and because of where it was I was able to take advantage of the owner desperate to get out of a euro boat before the value tumbled. With a bit of timing of exchange rates I managed to secure it for exactly half of what the same models were selling for here.

That left me in the awful position of having to take delivery of it in the South of France and couldn't get a lorry to transport it across for three weeks so had to spend it on board down there.

So with transport, fees and a holiday I was still left with a blinding deal all round.

Anyway it really boils down to sussing out what the owner wants to achieve. Just recently as I say there have been some good deals down the med because there are lot people starting to panic over yet another years marina fees. So find one for instance that has been moved from Ibiza to Barcelona and it's a pretty sure bet that the guy is starting to factor in what it's costing to keep refusing the offers.

[maser_spyder]

Thanks for that, it looks like I might well be able to go for the larger model then, assuming there's an owner out there that's keen to sell.

We're in no hurry to buy, and happy to wait a couple of years for the right boat to come along, it's good to know what we might open negotiations at.

Now I just have to explain to the lady why a 44' yacht is 'better' for us than the 39'....

[village idiot]

i would suggest getting into contact with the forums very own friendly sailing yacht broker (that'll be me then!)

would happily give you a summary of the current market across Europe and idea of perhaps what can buy what...

you never know... i might even have something for you! (such an absolutely mint (genuinely), very well-specced and very well-priced Jeanneau SO45 sat ashore outside my office right now... definitely no ex-charter shed!)

[Searider]

Depends on what you are looking for.

Same as with cars - if overpriced you'll offer a lower percentage.
Privately advertised boats are often asking too much.

If correctly priced then should sell quickly at close to asking price.
Boat being sold by a good broker should be closer to the mark.

Condition is everything. Get to know which Brokers have the type of boat you are after and make sure that you are the first person they contact when the boat you are looking for comes up for sale.

What's the boat?

[MOTORVATOR]

Paddy_N_Murphy said:

Isn't the Motorboat market a bit more squewed than the Sail boats?
An awful lot frightened off by the massive increase in running costs.

Not really sure.

The increases for one are not as much as the average yottie might believe. Mediterranean diesel for instance hasn't gone up that much and if you look at the average owner doing 50ish hours per year then even with our 40 / 60 split duty that might only equate to 3000ltrs @ 35p £1000p.a. uplift

Was talking to Essex Boatyards and they equalled their record at this year's boat show selling over £7m in new Fairlines but spread over 10 boats so I think it's probably more about whether you are in a position where the costs affect you badly or not. If you're banging out £2m on the latest Squadron are you really fussed about whether the diesel bil is 7k or 10k p.a. ?

I can imagine quite a few people in the £120k yacht market though are starting to rethink whether it was wise to stretch that loan particularly if they've just had a call for the next years £15k of marina fees.

[MOTORVATOR]

The other thing to bear in mind as well Maser is that with no disrespect to Village Idiot the reason I could afford to get shot of mine within 10 days at a reduced value of 25% is that I was avoiding the brokers fees of 8 - 10% and it was sold as seen with no surveys etc.

[maser_spyder]

MOTORVATOR said:

I can imagine quite a few people in the £120k yacht market though are starting to rethink whether it was wise to stretch that loan particularly if they've just had a call for the next years £15k of marina fees.

That's exactly the market I'm going for, typical eyes bigger than stomach, then can't afford to keep it. We'll be buying with cash, so could possibly make a better deal with this too.

I missed out on a brand new, zero hours boat, exactly what I was looking for about 2 years ago, because we didn't have the cash. The asking price was about 60% of the new cost, gutted I missed out now, somebody got a bargain.

Looking for an Elan Impression 384 or 434, depending on what Lady Maser will let me have.

[MOTORVATOR]

maser_spyder said:

That's exactly the market I'm going for, typical eyes bigger than stomach, then can't afford to keep it. We'll be buying with cash, so could possibly make a better deal with this too.

I missed out on a brand new, zero hours boat, exactly what I was looking for about 2 years ago, because we didn't have the cash. The asking price was about 60% of the new cost, gutted I missed out now, somebody got a bargain.

Looking for an Elan Impression 384 or 434, depending on what Lady Maser will let me have.

Ah yes the women will always have the last say. I'd have hung on to Dad's Seadog if it wasn't for my missus just hating sails.

One day I'll get back into it but I guess it's going to have to be minimum 65 foot, every conceiveable electrical appliance with a 60kva genny to run it all and suitable for single handed to satisfy her.

Anyway back to yours and whilst I'm out of kilter with current yachts a quick google says you'll do that easily inside your budget with lots to spare.

I don't know what you're like with boats but I have always held back money in my head to be able to refit bits the way I would want them. So for the Camargue I now have the latest Garmin Radar / DSC and AIS / Dual touch screen Plotter / Integrated Fishfinder / Autopilot all fitted at once and it makes the job of negotiating easier as I really didn't care about the faults on the existing setup but could still use it as bargaining chip.

And being a bloke who didn't know one end of a screwdriver from the other, misaligned cabinet doors etc that he saw as a worry took me exactly 2 hours to sort back to as new.

Oh and he let slip that he was just going into a divorce.

[hidetheelephants]

MOTORVATOR said:

Oh and he let slip that he was just going into a divorce.

Doh!

[me2]

MOTORVATOR said:

Not really sure.

The increases for one are not as much as the average yottie might believe. Mediterranean diesel for instance hasn't gone up that much and if you look at the average owner doing 50ish hours per year then even with our 40 / 60 split duty that might only equate to 3000ltrs @ 35p £1000p.a. uplift

Was talking to Essex Boatyards and they equalled their record at this year's boat show selling over £7m in new Fairlines but spread over 10 boats so I think it's probably more about whether you are in a position where the costs affect you badly or not. If you're banging out £2m on the latest Squadron are you really fussed about whether the diesel bil is 7k or 10k p.a. ?

I can imagine quite a few people in the £120k yacht market though are starting to rethink whether it was wise to stretch that loan particularly if they've just had a call for the next years £15k of
marina fees.

Is the 35p litre a typo or do you know something that I don't?

[Simpo Two]

me2 said:

Is the 35p litre a typo or do you know something that I don't?

Indeed, I heard that dear Mr Brown scrapped red diesel for boats to 'bring it into line with Europe'.

It is funny how whenever Europe is more expensive we must be 'brought into line' with it, yet when something in Europe is cheaper the same concept suddenly fails to apply.

[me2]

Simpo Two said:

Indeed, I heard that dear Mr Brown scrapped red diesel for boats to 'bring it into line with Europe'.

It is funny how whenever Europe is more expensive we must be 'brought into line' with it, yet when something in Europe is cheaper the same concept suddenly fails to apply.

Indeed £1 is nearer the mark now and it hurts.

[MOTORVATOR]

me2 said:

Is the 35p litre a typo or do you know something that I don't?

Just the increase. That's about the difference I was paying last year to the previous year once the 60/40 rule was applied.

I guess it's gone up again just recently with the VAT hike.

[MOTORVATOR]

me2 said:

Simpo Two said:

Indeed, I heard that dear Mr Brown scrapped red diesel for boats to 'bring it into line with Europe'.

It is funny how whenever Europe is more expensive we must be 'brought into line' with it, yet when something in Europe is cheaper the same concept suddenly fails to apply.

Indeed £1 is nearer the mark now and it hurts.

In fairness to Brown, HMG didn't want the change at all. EU were applying heavy pressure that meant boats from the UK turning up in an EU country carrying rebated fuel would have had problems.

The main reason for it was the greeks were buying fuel for fishing fleets and flogging it for road use.

The duty was deemed more expensive to administer than what it was worth hence they came up with the scheme of allowing 60/40 split of rebated versus full duty.

Last fill of 1700 litres just before Xmas at Burnham averaged out at 90.6p per litre.

The actual duty increase Nov 2008 was to 56.94p/l, instead of 9.69p/l and that should only apply to 60% of it if you don't want to keep records.

You are quite entitled to buy it all at rebated duty if you are prepared to keep records of generation / heating versus propulsion although some marinas have said it's not worth their bother allowing that.

It's still not quite cost effective to trip over the channel islands just for fuel but it's getting close.

he was a tt though

[littlegreenfairy]

village idiot said:

i would suggest getting into contact with the forums very own friendly sailing yacht broker (that'll be me then!)

would happily give you a summary of the current market across Europe and idea of perhaps what can buy what...

you never know... i might even have something for you! (such an absolutely mint (genuinely), very well-specced and very well-priced Jeanneau SO45 sat ashore outside my office right now... definitely no ex-charter shed!)

Buy this boat. My parents had the 43DS and I utterly loved it. Damn it, if I didn't have to get a house I'd be buying a boat. Miss sailing so much A moody 336 will always be my absolute favourite though.

[Simpo Two]

MOTORVATOR said:

The main reason for it was the greeks were buying fuel for fishing fleets and flogging it for road use.

Ah well that's where the Greek police should have been pulling up all Greek motorists, checking their fuel and fining them on the spot.

Well that's what would the Brtish police would have done with Britons. One more up the arse Sir? Yes please.

[maser_spyder]

littlegreenfairy said:

village idiot said:

i would suggest getting into contact with the forums very own friendly sailing yacht broker (that'll be me then!)

would happily give you a summary of the current market across Europe and idea of perhaps what can buy what...

you never know... i might even have something for you! (such an absolutely mint (genuinely), very well-specced and very well-priced Jeanneau SO45 sat ashore outside my office right now... definitely no ex-charter shed!)

Buy this boat. My parents had the 43DS and I utterly loved it. Damn it, if I didn't have to get a house I'd be buying a boat. Miss sailing so much A moody 336 will always be my absolute favourite though.

Already have a Jeanneau yacht, though I love it, I don't want another one.