737 landing question...

[thatone1967]

Not sure if there are any 737 pilots on here, but I am guessing that there may be...

Flew back into Stansted on a Ryan-Air -800 on Wednesday night, just before we descended through the cloud, felt almost like a full about turn although I am sure it was not, just wondered, due pilots use tight turns to kill airspeed as part of the landing process?

[anonymous-user]

Probably just holding when it's busy, sometimes this is a few times around a set racetrack pattern sometimes it's just one orbit.

[karona]

If you're heading towards an airfield with a tailwind, you'll need to turn around to face into wind for the landing. Air traffic control will give direction, speed and altitude instructions to the pilot to make the turn at the right point so the aircraft is properly lined up before decending through cloud, and there are instruments in the cockpit to help fly down to the runway, so the pilot doesn't even need to look out of the window until the very last minute.

Edited by karona on Friday 15th October 12:33

[scarebus]

When on Rwy04 at STN like it was on Wednesday, there are 2 180 degree turns for the approach to that Rwy, a 360 turn would typically be a radar vector when you are about to enter the hold... hope that helps

[thatone1967]

scarebus said:

When on Rwy04 at STN like it was on Wednesday, there are 2 180 degree turns for the approach to that Rwy, a 360 turn would typically be a radar vector when you are about to enter the hold... hope that helps

Cheers guys.....

[Flintstone]

karona said:

If you're heading towards an airfield with a tailwind, you'll need to turn around to face into wind for the landing. Air traffic control will give direction, speed and altitude instructions to the pilot to make the turn at the right point so the aircraft is properly lined up before decending through cloud, and there are instruments in the cockpit to help fly down to the runway, so the pilot doesn't even need to look out of the window until the very last minute.

Edited by karona on Friday 15th October 12:33

You are the author of the Ladybird book 'How Flying Is Done' AICMFP

[Pigeon]

"People At Work: The Pilot"

[karona]

Flintstone said:

karona said:

If you're heading towards an airfield with a tailwind, you'll need to turn around to face into wind for the landing. Air traffic control will give direction, speed and altitude instructions to the pilot to make the turn at the right point so the aircraft is properly lined up before decending through cloud, and there are instruments in the cockpit to help fly down to the runway, so the pilot doesn't even need to look out of the window until the very last minute.




You are the author of the Ladybird book 'How Flying Is Done' AICMFP

Shhhhh, can you hear it?

whooooosh

Yes, it was a bit immature for pistonheads, maybe "You turned into wind you 'tard" or 'the pilot was smashing the stewardesses back doors in" would have been more appropriate. However, given the postcount and length of time the OP has been around perhaps it was the subtlety of the 'whoosh' that was out of place.
<insert suitable smiley>

Edited by karona on Saturday 16th October 06:56

Edited by karona on Saturday 16th October 06:56

[Flintstone]

karona said:

Flintstone said:

karona said:

If you're heading towards an airfield with a tailwind, you'll need to turn around to face into wind for the landing. Air traffic control will give direction, speed and altitude instructions to the pilot to make the turn at the right point so the aircraft is properly lined up before decending through cloud, and there are instruments in the cockpit to help fly down to the runway, so the pilot doesn't even need to look out of the window until the very last minute.




You are the author of the Ladybird book 'How Flying Is Done' AICMFP

Shhhhh, can you hear it?

whooooosh

Yes, it was a bit immature for pistonheads, maybe "You turned into wind you 'tard" or 'the pilot was smashing the stewardesses back doors in" would have been more appropriate. However, given the postcount and length of time the OP has been around perhaps it was the subtlety of the 'whoosh' that was out of place.
<insert suitable smiley>

Hey, OP! karona is calling you a 'tard!










karona has also ballsed up the formatting, the 'tard

Edited by Flintstone on Saturday 16th October 15:03

[thatone1967]

my original question was "due pilots use tight turns to kill airspeed as part of the landing process?" which I don't think was a stupid, as I have had no pilot training, but was assuming that some on here would have?

[Simpo Two]

thatone1967 said:

my original question was "due pilots use tight turns to kill airspeed as part of the landing process?" which I don't think was a stupid, as I have had no pilot training, but was assuming that some on here would have?

Due? Well anyway, I expect that if they made a tight turn they would then no longer be pointing in the correct direction. Sideslipping was a way with Tiger Moths etc but don't know if you can do it with a big jet.

It was probably a 180 from the downwind leg, but I'm only an armchair pilot.

[Flintstone]

Nah, a 180's a bit small. Only four seats.


OP. No, turns are not used to reduce speed (although aircraft will decelerate in a turn if power is not added). They'd simply reduce thrust to slow down, deploy airbrakes if deceleration were needed in a hurry.

[thatone1967]

thanks Flinstone... I knew I would get a proper answer in the end...

[IforB]

thatone1967 said:

Not sure if there are any 737 pilots on here, but I am guessing that there may be...

Flew back into Stansted on a Ryan-Air -800 on Wednesday night, just before we descended through the cloud, felt almost like a full about turn although I am sure it was not, just wondered, due pilots use tight turns to kill airspeed as part of the landing process?

In theory you can use a descending turn if you are left high by ATC (for example) We often had to do this when positioning between Liege and Eindhoven, we'd be kept high until the last minute and would often arrive over the airfield at FL100 and a dirty dive would sometimes be a fun way of getting down rather than having to be vectored around.

This was in an old turboprop freighter that was empty, passengers might not have enjoyed it, especially given that the thing was unpressurised and the descent rate and bank angle could often be described as "sporting." We only ever did it in clear conditions when we had the airfield in sight and just chose to self-position. All good fun but it would be massively frowned upon in most decent airlines now! Thank god we had no data monitoring on board...

[The Black Flash]

thatone1967 said:

my original question was "due pilots use tight turns to kill airspeed as part of the landing process?" which I don't think was a stupid, as I have had no pilot training, but was assuming that some on here would have?

The space shuttle does on re-entry, but that probably doesn't count

[croyde]

On one of those programmes on Discovery/Nat Geo there was an incident where a big jet lost all power and the pilot, who was a glider pilot in his spare time, had to pull a stunt where he got the aircraft sideways in order to lose airspeed and altitude to be able to land.

[khaosai]

Hi,

I think thats the Gimli glider, a Boeing 767 in Canada that ran out of fuel.

Rgds.

[IforB]

khaosai said:

Hi,

I think thats the Gimli glider, a Boeing 767 in Canada that ran out of fuel.

Rgds.

There's been a few. One other I can think of was an Air Transat aircraft that ended up having to glide to the Azores.

[Dunk76]

IforB said:

khaosai said:

Hi,

I think thats the Gimli glider, a Boeing 767 in Canada that ran out of fuel.

Rgds.

There's been a few. One other I can think of was an Air Transat aircraft that ended up having to glide to the Azores.

How far can you glide a 737 from cruising altitude/speed then?

[IforB]

Dunk76 said:

IforB said:

khaosai said:

Hi,

I think thats the Gimli glider, a Boeing 767 in Canada that ran out of fuel.

Rgds.

There's been a few. One other I can think of was an Air Transat aircraft that ended up having to glide to the Azores.

How far can you glide a 737 from cruising altitude/speed then?

Here's the basic gen from the 737-300 QRH (Quick Reference Handbook), which is the only one I've got to hand.

If you lose both engines, you obviously try to start the things first, but you get the thing descending at min drag speed. Which works out at 210kts clean at a weight of 44,000kg. For every 2000kg higher, you increase the speed by 5kts. This should give you a rate of descent of around 2000ft/min. So a 180deg turn will lose you 2000ft and a 360 will lose 4000ft.

So if you are descending at 2000ft/min from say 36,000ft in still air, then it'll take 18 minutes to reach sea level. At 210 kts (3.5nm/min) that is a range of 63 nautical miles or 72 and a bit statute miles.

(This is just very rough and doesn't take into account the time and distance covered to slow to 210kts from the point of power loss.)

Edited by IforB on Monday 18th October 19:30