Helicopters

[RizzoTheRat]

Can they actually fly or is it some form of optical illusion that makes us think they can?

Been playing with the R22 in Microsoft FSX, and even with the "easy" flight model that minimises gyro and torque effects I'm really struggling (I've got an aeronautical engineering degree and 8 hours solo in gliders so I've got a vague idea how to fly fixed wing). One of my main problems is landing, I get to a few feet off the ground, presumably run in to ground effect issues, and usually veer way off from my intended landing position. Any flight sim enthusiasts or real pilots here (hopefully more relevant on Boats, Plans & Trains than on Computer Games) want to give me any tips?

[Somewhatfoolish]

RizzoTheRat said:

Can they actually fly

Nope

[DieselGriff]

Somewhatfoolish said:

RizzoTheRat said:

Can they actually fly

Nope

That's right, what actually happens is that helicopters are so ugly that they are repelled from the earth's surface

[WelshBoyo]

Can't fly any simulator helicopter games, but can fly real helicopters fine. Its all about feel, seat of your pants flying.

Quote - "A helicopter doesn't really fly at all, as far as I can make out. It screams and bawls like a spoilt brat until physics eventually gives in and says, "Oh, all right, all right, off you go then." - James May

[tegwin]

Dito.. the real thing is easier to fly than MS simulator... There is a realistic lag in the simulator which makes it very hard to fly the damn thing!

A very sensative joystick might help!

[RizzoTheRat]

WelshBoyo said:

Can't fly any simulator helicopter games, but can fly real helicopters fine. Its all about feel, seat of your pants flying.

Makes sense, I find the same with the glider, in reality your backside is way more sensitive than the vario at spotting thermals. One day I do want to get back in to flying but for now the sim is the best I've got

DieselGriff said:

helicopters are so ugly that they are repelled from the earth's surface

I've heard that one before, is it from a film or someone vaguely famous?

Edited by RizzoTheRat on Thursday 19th November 09:32

[DieselGriff]

RizzoTheRat said:

DieselGriff said:

helicopters are so ugly that they are repelled from the earth's surface

I've heard that one before, is it from a film or someone vaguely famous?

Don't know where it originated from, I first heard it about 4-5 years ago but that was on another forum. Has a certain ring to it doesn't it?

[Geneve]

WelshBoyo said:

Can't fly any simulator helicopter games, but can fly real helicopters fine. Its all about feel, seat of your pants flying.

Quote - "A helicopter doesn't really fly at all, as far as I can make out. It screams and bawls like a spoilt brat until physics eventually gives in and says, "Oh, all right, all right, off you go then." - James May

May is a fixed-wing pilot, and most fixed-wing pilots have a frustrated envy of the helicopter's incredible versatility - probably made worse because Hammond has bought a helicopter (well an R44).

May also once said that "....the aeroplane harnesses nature's aerodynamic forces, whereas the helicopter beats them into submission".

But, yes, helicopters do fly - rather brilliantly, in fact. They can hover, climb or descend vertically, fly sideways, backwards or forwards, do spot turns, and even 'autorotate' like a sycamore leaf if the engine stops.

I'm sure most birds look at helicopters in wonderment - astonished at the brilliance of human achievement

Having sais all that, I'm sure most helicopter pilots are useless with computer simulators and radio-controlled toys.

[hman]

Having learnt to fly r/c helis, then flying in real helis I can say that flying the real thing was A LOT easier as you could feel when it was moving.

Not being able to see the whole heli moving as a visual reference in a sim which doesnt give you any feel and basically a resticted view would be fairly difficult

[RizzoTheRat]

Geneve said:

May is a fixed-wing pilot, and most fixed-wing pilots have a frustrated envy of the helicopter's incredible versatility

Do civvy pilots learn to fly fixed wing then progress to egg beaters? I believe that's the way the military do it so the chopper pilots have seen both sides (bit like the majority of bikers also driving cars I guess)


Popham airfield near me now have a 2 seater gyro available for training, got to say that'd be tempting if I had the spare cash.

Edited by RizzoTheRat on Thursday 19th November 10:40

[rhinochopig]

Read Robert Mason's Chickenhawk for an amusing account of learning to fly a Helo. His theory: you start in a big field and they gradually put you into smaller and smaller fields until you can hover in one place.

A very funny and sometimes moving account of flying Huey's in Vietnam.

[RizzoTheRat]

Keep meaning to get my hands on a copy of Chickenhawk, a lot of people reckon it's a good read.

[eharding]

Geneve said:

May is a fixed-wing pilot, and most fixed-wing pilots have a frustrated envy of the helicopter's incredible versatility....

Ruade. Lomcevak. Avalanche. Mulleroid. Eventail. Abracadabra. (Cough....alright...Edracadabra).

All words which mean nothing to your average eggbeater driver, because should they attempt the aerobatic figures they represent, it would mean instant, fiery, flailing death. For the pure simple joy of putting the stick in one corner, the rudder in the other and tumbling sideways up the sky, you need to look elsewhere. If you want to live long enough to do it more than once, that is.

[Mr E]

RizzoTheRat said:

Keep meaning to get my hands on a copy of Chickenhawk, a lot of people reckon it's a good read.

It's inspiring, terrifying, frightening and depressing in equal amounts. Read it.

[Rotaree]

Geneve said:

..................Having said all that, I'm sure most helicopter pilots are useless with computer simulators and radio-controlled toys.

Definitely with you there; as a SAR pilot with some thousands of hours in the real thing I can't fly a simulator to save my life!!

[jhfozzy]

RizzoTheRat said:

Keep meaning to get my hands on a copy of Chickenhawk, a lot of people reckon it's a good read.

+1

I've just ordered it off fleabay for the princely sum of £2.74.

[rhinochopig]

jhfozzy said:

RizzoTheRat said:

Keep meaning to get my hands on a copy of Chickenhawk, a lot of people reckon it's a good read.

+1

I've just ordered it off fleabay for the princely sum of £2.74.

Well done - just put aside a day to read it as you won't be able to put it down. There is a sequel as well - although having not read it I can't comment on its quality.

[Geneve]

eharding said:

Geneve said:

May is a fixed-wing pilot, and most fixed-wing pilots have a frustrated envy of the helicopter's incredible versatility....

Ruade. Lomcevak. Avalanche. Mulleroid. Eventail. Abracadabra. (Cough....alright...Edracadabra).

All words which mean nothing to your average eggbeater driver, because should they attempt the aerobatic figures they represent, it would mean instant, fiery, flailing death. For the pure simple joy of putting the stick in one corner, the rudder in the other and tumbling sideways up the sky, you need to look elsewhere. If you want to live long enough to do it more than once, that is.

How about this then?

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1145417/red_bull_hel...



NB - Don't try this in a Robinson

Edited by Geneve on Thursday 19th November 17:48

[eharding]

Geneve said:

eharding said:

Geneve said:

May is a fixed-wing pilot, and most fixed-wing pilots have a frustrated envy of the helicopter's incredible versatility....

Ruade. Lomcevak. Avalanche. Mulleroid. Eventail. Abracadabra. (Cough....alright...Edracadabra).

All words which mean nothing to your average eggbeater driver, because should they attempt the aerobatic figures they represent, it would mean instant, fiery, flailing death. For the pure simple joy of putting the stick in one corner, the rudder in the other and tumbling sideways up the sky, you need to look elsewhere. If you want to live long enough to do it more than once, that is.

How about this then?

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1145417/red_bull_hel...

Edited by Geneve on Thursday 19th November 11:29

Impressive. For a helicopter. In fixed-wing aerobatics, those are the sort of figures deemed suitable for a level known as "Beginner's".

[RizzoTheRat]

Best helicopter aerobatics I've ever seen is this one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlrAy4yQEOg&fea...
This vid doesn't really do it justice though as it looks better when you can see it in relation to the ground, he does it from pretty much stationary.

Plus when it comes to fancy flying, I'd like to see a fixed wing try this (Ok I'll admit there's maybe one that could but he'd be in egg beater mode so it wouldn't count)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bF8xzcanrjQ&fea... Good flying but that's some seriously crazy ground crew.

Very impressed by the chinook display at RIAT this year, though also agree that fixed wing aerobatics look stunning, I went to the Redbull Air Races a couple of years back and loved it.

Edited by RizzoTheRat on Thursday 19th November 13:26

jhfozzy said:

I've just ordered it off fleabay for the princely sum of £2.74.

Good idea, I've just done the same

Edited by RizzoTheRat on Thursday 19th November 13:48