Plane crash

[Morningside]

Nothing to panic about. Channel 4 to crash plane.
http://www.aoltv.co.uk/2009/11/13/c4-to-crash-a-je...

I am not sure about the two pilots ejecting just before the crash, sounds ruddy dangerous to me

Edited by Morningside on Sunday 15th November 21:24

[TheEnd]

"Not even aircraft manufacturers have crashed something this big."

In case of system failure, the plane will also be remote controlled from a helicopter and from another control unit on the ground. The crash will be survivable so that lessons can be learnt from it.

If you're planning on watching purely for voyeuristic reasons don't worry, the channel doesn't mind. Head of specialist factual, Ralph Lee said: "If people tune in for the wrong reasons and learn something from it, then I am quite comfortable with that. Informing and entertaining are not separate categories."


So Channel 4 are doing this for aviation research, not entertainment then?

[eharding]

Morningside said:

Nothing to panic about. Channel 4 to crash plane.
http://www.aoltv.co.uk/2009/11/13/c4-to-crash-a-je...

I am not sure about the two pilots ejecting just before the crash, sounds ruddy dangerous to me

Edited by Morningside on Sunday 15th November 21:24

I think you'll find they'll be jumping out of a hatch, some considerable time before the crash, and won't be taking any furniture with them.

It still sounds bloody silly to me though, but then I've always thought jumping out of a perfectly good aeroplane a bit mad in the head, Ted.

[Eric Mc]

I presume they realise that no flight crew has EVER bailed out of a modern airliner - ever.

I think this is totally mad and unecessary.

Talk about "Car Crash TV".
What type of mental deviant in Channel 4 dreamt this up.

TV really is scrabbling for lowest common denominators these days.

Edited by Eric Mc on Sunday 15th November 21:53

[Dogwatch]

Eric Mc said:

I presume they realise that no flight crew has EVER bailed out of a modern airliner - ever.

I think this is totally mad and unecessary.

Talk about "Car Crash TV".
What type of mental deviant in Channel 4 dreamt this up.

TV really is scrabbling for lowest common denominators these days.

Edited by Eric Mc on Sunday 15th November 21:53

Probably reasonable in view of the fact that parachutes are not usual issue.

Ryanair's next big idea to save landing fees perhaps?

Edited by Dogwatch on Sunday 15th November 22:00

[FourWheelDrift]

TheEnd said:

"Not even aircraft manufacturers have crashed something this big."

I can think of at least one example. A radio controlled Boeing 707 was deliberately crashed by NASA into a US desert to check survivability. Fully fuelled, crash test dummies on board etc. They even put huge metal d-day style cutters into the ground to really open up the tanks.

Video is on YouTube.

[Eric Mc]

A - it was a Boeing 720 (not a 707)

B - it was radio controlled. In other words, there were no people on board (apart from some Crash Test Dummies).

NASA and the FAA have run a number of tests since the 1950s where elderly airliners have been tested to destruction - but at no point have they ever had a human crew on board.

This C4 "event" just seems totally crass and inappropriate.

[jmorgan]

NASA test
http://www.dfrc.nasa.gov/Gallery/Movie/CID/index.h...

[FourWheelDrift]

Eric Mc said:

A - it was a Boeing 720 (not a 707)

B - it was radio controlled. In other words, there were no people on board (apart from some Crash Test Dummies).

NASA and the FAA have run a number of tests since the 1950s where elderly airliners have been tested to destruction - but at no point have they ever had a human crew on board.

This C4 "event" just seems totally crass and inappropriate.

why "B" I already said it was radio controlled.

[Eric Mc]

FourWheelDrift said:

Eric Mc said:

A - it was a Boeing 720 (not a 707)

B - it was radio controlled. In other words, there were no people on board (apart from some Crash Test Dummies).

NASA and the FAA have run a number of tests since the 1950s where elderly airliners have been tested to destruction - but at no point have they ever had a human crew on board.

This C4 "event" just seems totally crass and inappropriate.

why "B" I already said it was radio controlled.

There is very little similarity between what NASA and the FAA did in 1983 and this C4 proposal. The 1983 NASA test was a scientific and engineering test. A number of new technologies were being tried out in an "all up" test - including a fuel which "gelled" when subjected to high G loadings. It wasn't a populist stunt.

If C4 can entice aviation authorities to get involved and line up some tests then it may not be as dumb as it looks at the present. However, I do not see any point in conducting this flight AND putting two flight crew in danger of their lives. As I said, there is no record of any person ever bailing out of a modern jet liner and surviving.

[RizzoTheRat]

Eric Mc said:

A - it was a Boeing 720 (not a 707)

B - it was radio controlled. In other words, there were no people on board (apart from some Crash Test Dummies).

A former boss of mine was involved in that one. Apparently the reason it went a bit wrong was there was quite a bit delay in the control system between the remote pilot and the aircraft controls. One of the engines was ripped open by a pilon resulting in a big fuel fire that the anti misting fuel should have prevented had the engine not still been running when it was trashed. His view was had the plane landed as it was supposed to there wouldn't have been anywhere near as much fire, the trial would have been a success, and the anti-misting fuel would now be in common use, resulting in heavier and more complex fuel systems, and probably less efficient engines as it needed to be worked pretty hard to get it to atomise and might well not work too well with modern lean burning airspray injector.

[speedtwelve]

Eric Mc said:

As I said, there is no record of any person ever bailing out of a modern jet liner and surviving.

Not an intentional bail-out, Eric, but IIRC a JAT stewardess survived a fall from Flight Level Nosebleed inside the tail of a DC9 which was blown-up in the cruise by terrorists.

This C4 exercise sounds like a load of bolleaux to me; I'll believe it when I see it...

Edited by speedtwelve on Sunday 15th November 23:30

[eharding]

Eric Mc said:

I presume they realise that no flight crew has EVER bailed out of a modern airliner - ever.

You're thinking of that airline hijacker in the US, who managed to get over the side, apparently got the canopy open, but ended up landing on a female Grizzly bear and her cubs somewhere in the Rockies. I think they eventually found scraps of the parachute, some tattered clothing, and about 1% of the money. The hijacker and the rest of the money were never found, but it is a matter of record that three Grizzly bears did graduate from the Harvard Law School ten years later. Law school is expensive. Especially for bears, so it helps to have a trust fund.

But there have been successful manual (i.e. jump through a hatch) bail-outs from large jet types before - you just need to make sure the thing is going slowly enough before you step outside, ideally with some form of shielding from the initial air-blast.

[thatone1967]

speedtwelve said:

Eric Mc said:

As I said, there is no record of any person ever bailing out of a modern jet liner and surviving.

Not an intentional bail-out, Eric, but IIRC a JAT stewardess survived a fall from Flight Level Nosebleed inside the tail of a DC9 which was blown-up in the cruise by terrorists.

This C4 exercise sounds like a load of bolleaux to me; I'll believe it when I see it...

Edited by speedtwelve on Sunday 15th November 23:30

Here you go.....


http://www.super70s.com/super70s/Tech/Aviation/Dis...

[Simpo Two]

Channel 4 said:

And viewers will see the pilots board the plane before setting it on a collision course for the documentary.

Like the magician who shows his assistant climbing into the box?

Channel 4 said:

Channel 4 hopes it will be one of the biggest hits of next year

Phew, not doing it just for ratings then.

Channel 4 said:

In case of system failure, the plane will also be remote controlled from a helicopter and from another control unit on the ground.

But there are pilots on board, right? Even planes with 300 passengers on board don't need two external methods of control.

Channel 4 said:

If you're planning on watching purely for voyeuristic reasons don't worry, the channel doesn't mind. Head of specialist factual, Ralph Lee said: "If people tune in for the wrong reasons and learn something from it, then I am quite comfortable with that. Informing and entertaining are not separate categories."

Ah right. Ratings war air-crash TV it is then.

But better than 'Strictly Come Dancing' at least.

How about if they put some celebrities in the plane, and they could sing and dance a bit before it crashed?

[Somewhatfoolish]

Eric Mc said:

there is no record of any person ever bailing out of a modern jet liner and surviving.

That's not correct; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyNwr_Cb--I

[Eric Mc]

Somewhatfoolish said:

Eric Mc said:

there is no record of any person ever bailing out of a modern jet liner and surviving.

That's not correct; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyNwr_Cb--I

Is a 727 a "modern" jet? Production ceased in 1982.

The C4 proposal plans to use a wide-bodied jet of Boeing 767/Airbus A300/A310 size. I cannot think of a single incident where a person has leapt from a large airliner of this type.

Also, the 727 has a rear airstairs which allows a relatively safe exit out the back with little risk of hitting any part of the aircraft structure. How would you advise a person to bail out of a 767/A300/A310?

Edited by Eric Mc on Thursday 19th November 08:57

[Somewhatfoolish]

Eric Mc said:

Also, the 727 has a rear airstairs which allows a relatively safe exit out the back with little risk of hitting any part of the aircraft structure. How would you advise a person to bail out of a 767/A300/A310?

With a line

And not out the front door

[Eric Mc]

As on the Shuttle.

But my point is still valid - it's never been done before with an aircraft like this.

I wonder under who's jursidiction this crash is going to happen? It certainly won't be in the UK. Will the FAA allow it in the US? Will they have to take the "experiment" to a less regulated country with wide open spaces and good weather?

[wildone63]

Just thought i would resurrect this thread
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2009/nov/12/plane-...
Did this programme ever get made?,i seem to recall that it was planned to be screened last autumn,or did i miss it?
Cheers