Bomber Command Heritage campaign to save RAF Bicester.
Discussion
Dear all,
Reading the Lanc thread made me think that this might be a suitable ground to source support in endorsing the campaign to gain proper recognition for those people who served in Royal Air Force Bomber Command during World War Two.
Reading this post might take 30 seconds of your time.. for many, the time that they lost was measured in a lifetime. RAF Bomber Command for much of the war, stood alone in standing up to Nazi tyranny and actively took the fight to them. Its sacrifice underpinned national resolve when we had little other good news, it shored up the potential for flagging morale, it gave us breathing space and it tied up Nazi assets which would otherwise have been employed directly against our cities, our people and our military. When much of our military re-equipped, licked its wounds and started all over again, it was RAF Bomber Command which shouldered the burden and it is shameful that recognition for it is almost non existant.
Timely and suitable recognition of these men and women is important for three reasons. Firstly, and being practical, there are not many of them left – they deserve to know quickly that we value and cherish what they and their comrades did for us. Secondly, it underlines the way that the Royal Air Force stood up against overwelming odds to bullying tyranny when many about us didn’t, and isn’t that what we’re trying to achieve globally and thirdly, and possibly more importantly, it is our duty to recognize those Commonwealth citizens of the world who came here to fight alongside us. Not to honour these men in an appropriate manner would be an insult.
Much of Bomber Command’s strength came from Canada, New Zealand, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa and all parts of the Empire and Commonwealth, plus those who stepped forward from Poland, Czechoslovakia, France, Belgium, Holland, Ireland and many, many more places. These passionate, honourable and brave people all had little in common apart from the fact that they saw us as the sanctuary from where they could fight for the freedoms that we all take for granted. Just as today we are seen as a country of opportunity, fairness and compassion, then too, were we seen as the natural rallying point for the line in the sand that was not to be crossed under any circumstances. Over 50,000 of these men entered their cramped bombers on dark nights and never returned. If democracy was worth it for them to die for, what does it say about it today, if we are not even bothered to pick up a pen for them in return?
So, we need very little from any PH'ers apart from your moral support at the moment, and perhaps a few sign ups for the online newsletter and if we could be really cheeky, you might like to forward the link to this thread to other messageboard that you go to.. in order to spread the word. If you can do just that for us, then we shall do the rest for them.
Its the least we can all do.
Cheers,
Al.
http://www.bc-heritage.org/
Reading the Lanc thread made me think that this might be a suitable ground to source support in endorsing the campaign to gain proper recognition for those people who served in Royal Air Force Bomber Command during World War Two.
Reading this post might take 30 seconds of your time.. for many, the time that they lost was measured in a lifetime. RAF Bomber Command for much of the war, stood alone in standing up to Nazi tyranny and actively took the fight to them. Its sacrifice underpinned national resolve when we had little other good news, it shored up the potential for flagging morale, it gave us breathing space and it tied up Nazi assets which would otherwise have been employed directly against our cities, our people and our military. When much of our military re-equipped, licked its wounds and started all over again, it was RAF Bomber Command which shouldered the burden and it is shameful that recognition for it is almost non existant.
Timely and suitable recognition of these men and women is important for three reasons. Firstly, and being practical, there are not many of them left – they deserve to know quickly that we value and cherish what they and their comrades did for us. Secondly, it underlines the way that the Royal Air Force stood up against overwelming odds to bullying tyranny when many about us didn’t, and isn’t that what we’re trying to achieve globally and thirdly, and possibly more importantly, it is our duty to recognize those Commonwealth citizens of the world who came here to fight alongside us. Not to honour these men in an appropriate manner would be an insult.
Much of Bomber Command’s strength came from Canada, New Zealand, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa and all parts of the Empire and Commonwealth, plus those who stepped forward from Poland, Czechoslovakia, France, Belgium, Holland, Ireland and many, many more places. These passionate, honourable and brave people all had little in common apart from the fact that they saw us as the sanctuary from where they could fight for the freedoms that we all take for granted. Just as today we are seen as a country of opportunity, fairness and compassion, then too, were we seen as the natural rallying point for the line in the sand that was not to be crossed under any circumstances. Over 50,000 of these men entered their cramped bombers on dark nights and never returned. If democracy was worth it for them to die for, what does it say about it today, if we are not even bothered to pick up a pen for them in return?
So, we need very little from any PH'ers apart from your moral support at the moment, and perhaps a few sign ups for the online newsletter and if we could be really cheeky, you might like to forward the link to this thread to other messageboard that you go to.. in order to spread the word. If you can do just that for us, then we shall do the rest for them.
Its the least we can all do.
Cheers,
Al.
http://www.bc-heritage.org/
Why - and this is not intended as a provocative question - do you want to save RAF Bicester, and what is threatening it at the moment?
I have immense admiration for the men of Bomber Command, but I'm not sure that it's either necessary or desirable to preserve old bomber bases just for the sake of it. We've got plenty of historical evidence of how they were built and functioned. Was RAF Bicester particularly unique amongst the hundreds of bomber airfields (again, genuine question...).
Now if it's a memorial, then that's a different thing. As a developer, I'd be all in favour of signing up to a Section 106 agreement that committed me to a permanent, high quality memorial on the site by means, perhaps, of a 'public art' contribution, and to perhaps commemorate the base/squadrons/aircrew in other ways (street names, for example). In that way, you could argue that more people would be led to think about and commemorate the actions of the men of bomber command than would be exposed to it if the base is simply preserved as a museum? The problem with museums is that they tend to preach to the converted...
I have immense admiration for the men of Bomber Command, but I'm not sure that it's either necessary or desirable to preserve old bomber bases just for the sake of it. We've got plenty of historical evidence of how they were built and functioned. Was RAF Bicester particularly unique amongst the hundreds of bomber airfields (again, genuine question...).
Now if it's a memorial, then that's a different thing. As a developer, I'd be all in favour of signing up to a Section 106 agreement that committed me to a permanent, high quality memorial on the site by means, perhaps, of a 'public art' contribution, and to perhaps commemorate the base/squadrons/aircrew in other ways (street names, for example). In that way, you could argue that more people would be led to think about and commemorate the actions of the men of bomber command than would be exposed to it if the base is simply preserved as a museum? The problem with museums is that they tend to preach to the converted...
Edited by Sam_68 on Sunday 3rd August 13:38
Hi Sam,
It isn't a provocative question at all.
Bicester wouldn't be 'just' a museum in the conventional sense. Because it has been off the beaten operational track for so long, it has survived in remarkable condition. It currently has an active and thriving gliding school and the remainder of the building and real estate could be used for many purposes.
Bicester could be more than ‘just’ re-roofing a collection of old buildings and filling them with old engines, propellers and seats. That might be an over simplification, but to pitch yourself in the same market as the Duxfords of this world, would be a bit of a non starter and a tough nut to crack. You’d be a fledgling product going head to head with the market leaders, you’d make yourself vulnerable and you’re focusing on just one target sector. Be opening a museum, you’d probably get a hardcore element of support, but Bicester has the potential to be flexible, to reach out and to break new ground if it wants to obtain and (more importantly) maintain the revenue that its going to need to survive.
Sure, it can’t kill the goose that lays the golden egg, so to speak, and it has to retain its unique character. Key to its success is going to be maintaining and evolving a unique character and that has to be handled with the upmost sympathy. But it could be an established engineering, nostalgia and education location, without being turned into a theme or industrial park. As well as paying ground rent, just one example which could provide growing and steady income may be that part of the site could become synonymous with automotive classic motorsport. In keeping with the feel and providing a buzz which itself, goes towards critical mass, Bicester is also in the great position of being accessible to The Cotswolds which is the hub of the Classic motorsport scene and the Northampton Triangle, the hub of more modern motorsport.
With its great infrastructure, heritage and links.. geographically, it doesn’t get much better than Bicester. I have visited Duxford many times (invariably as I’m passing), but seem to only ever see the same portions, simply because I lack the time. Unless I was a hard core enthusiast I would be hard pressed to justify seeing it all, and anyway, Bicester doesn’t need to compete with Duxford. It has to play to its strengths not anyone elses and I see the Oxford derived casual summer tourism footfall from Japanese and American tourists as being a separate and independent revenue stream.
I also see the likes of Tiger Moths and other aeroplanes being repaired, stored and flown from there. I haven’t got a clue as to the types of ground rent that particular market could stand, but it would enhance the reputation no end and provide the concept of a living museum with a suitable buzz. Similarly, the site could also satisfy the usual suspects - it’s a great film venue, a superb location for active education, perfect for clubs to locate to and fly from and you would have to be spectacularly oblivious to the commercial possibilities if you didn’t want to host suitable outdoor musical and other club events.
I’m thinking totally off the wall here, but Beaulieu Autojumble gets 30,000 people or so a year attending two events but its getting harder to justify going, because its so far away. I’m not suggesting having car boot sales there, but the Beaulieu show is in a class of its own and there is scope to become known for something that is class leading, quite quickly. The demographic crossover is ideal too. There could also be niche aviation events, nothing fancy, and again, Bicester needs to play to its strengths, not anyone else’s. These days it seems, people like ‘niche’. The name of the game is targeting the quality money as much as the quantity. Fight smart!
As always, these things involve compromise and the marriage between the museum and Mercedes Benz World at Brooklands is a useful model of the past, present and future working in harmony and to everyone’s advantage. And yes, there would be a memorial, and it would be seen as somewhere that we would be able to attend in order to simply remember, give thanks and hopefully, to give us a gentle nudge not to make the same mistakes again.
It isn't a provocative question at all.
Bicester wouldn't be 'just' a museum in the conventional sense. Because it has been off the beaten operational track for so long, it has survived in remarkable condition. It currently has an active and thriving gliding school and the remainder of the building and real estate could be used for many purposes.
Bicester could be more than ‘just’ re-roofing a collection of old buildings and filling them with old engines, propellers and seats. That might be an over simplification, but to pitch yourself in the same market as the Duxfords of this world, would be a bit of a non starter and a tough nut to crack. You’d be a fledgling product going head to head with the market leaders, you’d make yourself vulnerable and you’re focusing on just one target sector. Be opening a museum, you’d probably get a hardcore element of support, but Bicester has the potential to be flexible, to reach out and to break new ground if it wants to obtain and (more importantly) maintain the revenue that its going to need to survive.
Sure, it can’t kill the goose that lays the golden egg, so to speak, and it has to retain its unique character. Key to its success is going to be maintaining and evolving a unique character and that has to be handled with the upmost sympathy. But it could be an established engineering, nostalgia and education location, without being turned into a theme or industrial park. As well as paying ground rent, just one example which could provide growing and steady income may be that part of the site could become synonymous with automotive classic motorsport. In keeping with the feel and providing a buzz which itself, goes towards critical mass, Bicester is also in the great position of being accessible to The Cotswolds which is the hub of the Classic motorsport scene and the Northampton Triangle, the hub of more modern motorsport.
With its great infrastructure, heritage and links.. geographically, it doesn’t get much better than Bicester. I have visited Duxford many times (invariably as I’m passing), but seem to only ever see the same portions, simply because I lack the time. Unless I was a hard core enthusiast I would be hard pressed to justify seeing it all, and anyway, Bicester doesn’t need to compete with Duxford. It has to play to its strengths not anyone elses and I see the Oxford derived casual summer tourism footfall from Japanese and American tourists as being a separate and independent revenue stream.
I also see the likes of Tiger Moths and other aeroplanes being repaired, stored and flown from there. I haven’t got a clue as to the types of ground rent that particular market could stand, but it would enhance the reputation no end and provide the concept of a living museum with a suitable buzz. Similarly, the site could also satisfy the usual suspects - it’s a great film venue, a superb location for active education, perfect for clubs to locate to and fly from and you would have to be spectacularly oblivious to the commercial possibilities if you didn’t want to host suitable outdoor musical and other club events.
I’m thinking totally off the wall here, but Beaulieu Autojumble gets 30,000 people or so a year attending two events but its getting harder to justify going, because its so far away. I’m not suggesting having car boot sales there, but the Beaulieu show is in a class of its own and there is scope to become known for something that is class leading, quite quickly. The demographic crossover is ideal too. There could also be niche aviation events, nothing fancy, and again, Bicester needs to play to its strengths, not anyone else’s. These days it seems, people like ‘niche’. The name of the game is targeting the quality money as much as the quantity. Fight smart!
As always, these things involve compromise and the marriage between the museum and Mercedes Benz World at Brooklands is a useful model of the past, present and future working in harmony and to everyone’s advantage. And yes, there would be a memorial, and it would be seen as somewhere that we would be able to attend in order to simply remember, give thanks and hopefully, to give us a gentle nudge not to make the same mistakes again.
OK, thanks for that detailed response!
Is it actually threatened (I know there's a lot of residential development proposed for Bicester, and presumably they will be pushing employment development to support it, too), or is it simply a matter of preserving the site before it decays further?
Is it actually threatened (I know there's a lot of residential development proposed for Bicester, and presumably they will be pushing employment development to support it, too), or is it simply a matter of preserving the site before it decays further?
In much the same way as Sam 68, are you talking about preserving the base in a museum sense or a memorial? If its the later I would have though the National Memorial would be the obvious place to put it, in fact I'm sure there is something there already. I went recently and was really impressed. From a museum perspective, whilst I can see an arguement for it, surely other museums already serve that purpose.
If everything in the country was preserved in memory of somebody or something then there would never be any development. Whilst I have total respect for everyone who fought and died in bomber command, and other services, it was a long time ago and has much less relevance now than it did even 20 years ago. We must never forget what happened but I'm not sure preserving big areas of space is the way to do it, the land could be used more purposefully, I know the area pretty well - if indeed it is under threat.
If everything in the country was preserved in memory of somebody or something then there would never be any development. Whilst I have total respect for everyone who fought and died in bomber command, and other services, it was a long time ago and has much less relevance now than it did even 20 years ago. We must never forget what happened but I'm not sure preserving big areas of space is the way to do it, the land could be used more purposefully, I know the area pretty well - if indeed it is under threat.
Firstly, I don't speak in an official context, let me just say that.
Secondly, the MoD is trying to sell the site and yes, I accept that we need houses, especially affordable houses, in the area and the defence budget needs topping up. But, the site is unique. It is a superb example of a pre WW2 flying station in an almost timewarp condition. It is part of our heritage and to erase it would be criminally short sighted. We have lost enough flying stations which played their part in the Battle of Britain.. how would we view nowadays, the bean counter who decided x years ago, to scrap HMS Victory for a fraction of her intrinsic and real value?
There would also be a memorial.. within the Bomber community there is much talk about where such a memorial could be.. Lincs of course, is Bomber County but many also flew from Cambs (PF etc) and also Yorkshire. I think it would be a suitable venue for a National military cemetery. Thats just a thought of mine, thats all.
Secondly, the MoD is trying to sell the site and yes, I accept that we need houses, especially affordable houses, in the area and the defence budget needs topping up. But, the site is unique. It is a superb example of a pre WW2 flying station in an almost timewarp condition. It is part of our heritage and to erase it would be criminally short sighted. We have lost enough flying stations which played their part in the Battle of Britain.. how would we view nowadays, the bean counter who decided x years ago, to scrap HMS Victory for a fraction of her intrinsic and real value?
There would also be a memorial.. within the Bomber community there is much talk about where such a memorial could be.. Lincs of course, is Bomber County but many also flew from Cambs (PF etc) and also Yorkshire. I think it would be a suitable venue for a National military cemetery. Thats just a thought of mine, thats all.
That is correct, but that very greyness works to its advantage. The danger with placing a memorial anywhere that has particular significance to it, is that you'll alienate those who never served there. Bicester is neutral, and as explained, a nigh on perfect setting anyway. Bicester saw more Bomber Command aeroplanes than just about any other, and missions were flown from there. It is also central and a lot easier to get to that many places in say, Lincs.
.. al said:
That is correct, but that very greyness works to its advantage. The danger with placing a memorial anywhere that has particular significance to it, is that you'll alienate those who never served there. Bicester is neutral, and as explained, a nigh on perfect setting anyway. Bicester saw more Bomber Command aeroplanes than just about any other, and missions were flown from there. It is also central and a lot easier to get to that many places in say, Lincs.
To be honest, trying to "save" Bicester from development smacks more of a case of "nimbyism" thn a genuine effort to have a memorial raised.I think if any Bomber Command airfield needs to be saved as a memorial to the 58,000 who died on bomber ops it has to be Scampton - which is set to close in a few years.
To be honest, you probably don't realise the time and effort that has gone into this. It has got sod all to do with nimbyism and everything to do with saving something of value that we won't have any longer. Bicester is neutral and not subject to the Group passions and loyalties felt by so many survivors still, or liable to be identified with one single type - something else that would cause division.
The location of the memorial doesn't have so much to do with matters anyway - as time has passed, fewer and fewer survivors make the trek and invariably, its families which dictate matters. That trend of course, is not going to be reversed and we need to have somewhere central and easy to get to, that people can attend easily, that tourists can visit and that in many ways, is going to send the legend of Bomber Command into newer areas of the country. Putting a Bomber Command memorial in Lincs is like preaching to the converted. We need to get Bomber Command and its sacrifice remmebered by as many people as possible, in as perfect setting as possible.. and not just pander to the ideals of the cogniscenti.
The following types flew from Bicester;
Blenheim, Defiant, Mosquito, Spitfire, Mitchell, Halifax, Wellington, Beaufighter.. to name but a few. Bicester's flying heritage is rich, diverse and possibly unique, the location od perfect and the real estate is stunning.
The location of the memorial doesn't have so much to do with matters anyway - as time has passed, fewer and fewer survivors make the trek and invariably, its families which dictate matters. That trend of course, is not going to be reversed and we need to have somewhere central and easy to get to, that people can attend easily, that tourists can visit and that in many ways, is going to send the legend of Bomber Command into newer areas of the country. Putting a Bomber Command memorial in Lincs is like preaching to the converted. We need to get Bomber Command and its sacrifice remmebered by as many people as possible, in as perfect setting as possible.. and not just pander to the ideals of the cogniscenti.
The following types flew from Bicester;
Blenheim, Defiant, Mosquito, Spitfire, Mitchell, Halifax, Wellington, Beaufighter.. to name but a few. Bicester's flying heritage is rich, diverse and possibly unique, the location od perfect and the real estate is stunning.
Devil's Advocate for a moment, around the whole idea of a memorial to Bomber Command. I'm as patriotic as anyone on here, ex-ATC, and a keen student of military history - so I'm reasonably well versed in the whys and wherefores of the RAF and it's various roles in WW2.
My late Uncle was in Bomber Command - tail gunner in Wellingtons, then Stirlings, then Halifaxes. Not the sexiest of jobs in the best of aircraft, but he did it nonetheless. He was the sole survivor of a Halifax crash landing which broke up on impact - burned his mates alive before his eyes - him being trapped in the turret a short distance away facing the remains of the plane.
He also volunteered to fly in the post-war food relief missions to the various places he'd been and flattened - Dresden, Hamburg, Cologne, etc.
He was deeply deeply ashamed and disturbed by his role in the war - down solely to what he witnessed in the ruins of those cities.
It haunted him to the day he died.
Whilst I personally commend the bravery of those young chaps, as it unquestionable - there are some who remain unable to separate Bomber Harris' policy of firebombing cities from the bravery of the crews tasked with that undertaking. Like my Uncle, they only see that the two are intrinsically linked.
For that reason I'm not sure it'd gain popular support outside of the aeronautical community.
My late Uncle was in Bomber Command - tail gunner in Wellingtons, then Stirlings, then Halifaxes. Not the sexiest of jobs in the best of aircraft, but he did it nonetheless. He was the sole survivor of a Halifax crash landing which broke up on impact - burned his mates alive before his eyes - him being trapped in the turret a short distance away facing the remains of the plane.
He also volunteered to fly in the post-war food relief missions to the various places he'd been and flattened - Dresden, Hamburg, Cologne, etc.
He was deeply deeply ashamed and disturbed by his role in the war - down solely to what he witnessed in the ruins of those cities.
It haunted him to the day he died.
Whilst I personally commend the bravery of those young chaps, as it unquestionable - there are some who remain unable to separate Bomber Harris' policy of firebombing cities from the bravery of the crews tasked with that undertaking. Like my Uncle, they only see that the two are intrinsically linked.
For that reason I'm not sure it'd gain popular support outside of the aeronautical community.
Edited by Dunk76 on Sunday 3rd August 18:30
Is London then not the place to comemmorate Bomber Command - or the National Arboretum in Staffordhire?
I too find it sad that airfields end up being used as industrial estates/trading estates/housing estates/ eco-towns/asylum centres/prisons/atomic weapons establishments etc etc.
But the necessities of 1942 are very different from today and they can't all be saved for posterity.
If a memorial was sited at Bicester, how much of the airfield itself would survive anyway? After all, a memorial may only consist of a plaque on a wall, a memorial garden or at most, a dedicated building with perhaps some grounds. That would still leave the vast bulk of the airfield available for development.
RAF Tangmere is a good example of what can happen.
I too find it sad that airfields end up being used as industrial estates/trading estates/housing estates/ eco-towns/asylum centres/prisons/atomic weapons establishments etc etc.
But the necessities of 1942 are very different from today and they can't all be saved for posterity.
If a memorial was sited at Bicester, how much of the airfield itself would survive anyway? After all, a memorial may only consist of a plaque on a wall, a memorial garden or at most, a dedicated building with perhaps some grounds. That would still leave the vast bulk of the airfield available for development.
RAF Tangmere is a good example of what can happen.
Edited by Eric Mc on Sunday 3rd August 18:32
.. al said:
We need to get Bomber Command and its sacrifice remmebered by as many people as possible, in as perfect setting as possible.. and not just pander to the ideals of the cogniscenti.
I agree absolutely, but I'm not sure that preserving a whole airbase is the best solution - it would seem to be exactly pandering to the cogniscenti (who else, realistically, is going to spend a day walking around hundreds of acres of old airfield of no particular historic importance?).A fitting formal monument to Bomber Command, by all means - sensibly at an existing public place or museum (Lincoln Cathedral?; Duxford?) - and commemorate individual re-developed bases by means of smaller monuments and/or street names, but to be honest I'm unconvinced about sterilizing the development potential of a major site, simply for another minority interest museum.
But then to be fair, I'm about as biased as you can get, being as I build houses for a living!
Edited by Sam_68 on Sunday 3rd August 18:46
Eric,
London has a splendid memorial to Fighter Command, and a more 'living' one at Capel le Ferne. Not everyone wants to pay through the nose to get into London to look at something that is ornate and ceremonial. Some want somewhere more in keeping with what is being remembered, and the means to do it in peace and quiet.
http://www.coastofconflict.com/capel-le-ferne/
I appreciate that not all can be saved, and I agree with that. But.. Bicester is an almost perfect pre war example and possible the single remaining and finest link with something that we might not appreciate, but future generations probably will. 500+ died in the Battle of Britain.. 50,000+ died with Bomber Command. The time is right to redress this massive injustice.
The idea of remembering 55,000 lives by looking at a 'Princess Diana once lived here' type of plaque surrounded by a Jewsons depot, Tesco and and Frankie and Benny's isn't particularly in keeping with the aim, and yes.. the entire airfield could survive. It is a grass strip.. one of the reasons why it remains in such unmolested order. A very successful glider club uses it still.
London has a splendid memorial to Fighter Command, and a more 'living' one at Capel le Ferne. Not everyone wants to pay through the nose to get into London to look at something that is ornate and ceremonial. Some want somewhere more in keeping with what is being remembered, and the means to do it in peace and quiet.
http://www.coastofconflict.com/capel-le-ferne/
I appreciate that not all can be saved, and I agree with that. But.. Bicester is an almost perfect pre war example and possible the single remaining and finest link with something that we might not appreciate, but future generations probably will. 500+ died in the Battle of Britain.. 50,000+ died with Bomber Command. The time is right to redress this massive injustice.
The idea of remembering 55,000 lives by looking at a 'Princess Diana once lived here' type of plaque surrounded by a Jewsons depot, Tesco and and Frankie and Benny's isn't particularly in keeping with the aim, and yes.. the entire airfield could survive. It is a grass strip.. one of the reasons why it remains in such unmolested order. A very successful glider club uses it still.
Edited by .. al on Sunday 3rd August 18:50
Hi Sam,
The site could remain alive by offering a central location for Air Cadets to conduct camps and training, it could teach skills to disabled servicemen, it could provide accom for some personnel and it could be a venue for many, many events. It wouldn't 'just' be an old airfield gently decaying. It would be alive.. thats the whole point of it - it would offer much to many.
There is a plaque at Lincoln, but its a Regional one. I'm dissapointed that you feel 55,000 people who died for us represents a minority interest. They died to give us the right to post here - its not a 'minority 'interest' and if thats how it is seen, then shame on us. It is a debt.
The site could remain alive by offering a central location for Air Cadets to conduct camps and training, it could teach skills to disabled servicemen, it could provide accom for some personnel and it could be a venue for many, many events. It wouldn't 'just' be an old airfield gently decaying. It would be alive.. thats the whole point of it - it would offer much to many.
There is a plaque at Lincoln, but its a Regional one. I'm dissapointed that you feel 55,000 people who died for us represents a minority interest. They died to give us the right to post here - its not a 'minority 'interest' and if thats how it is seen, then shame on us. It is a debt.
eccles said:
What operational sorties were flown from Bicester during the war?
Bicester was used to mount operations, no operational units were stationed there.http://www.bbc.co.uk/oxford/content/articles/2008/...
.. al said:
Hi Sam,
The site could remain alive by offering a central location for Air Cadets to conduct camps and training, it could teach skills to disabled servicemen, it could provide accom for some personnel and it could be a venue for many, many events. It wouldn't 'just' be an old airfield gently decaying. It would be alive.. thats the whole point of it - it would offer much to many.
There is a plaque at Lincoln, but its a Regional one. I'm dissapointed that you feel 55,000 people who died for us represents a minority interest. They died to give us the right to post here - its not a 'minority 'interest' and if thats how it is seen, then shame on us. It is a debt.
Nobody is denying that Bomber Command needs better and more general recognition than it currently receives. I just don't see how RAF Bicester is the most appropriate loaction for such a memorial.The site could remain alive by offering a central location for Air Cadets to conduct camps and training, it could teach skills to disabled servicemen, it could provide accom for some personnel and it could be a venue for many, many events. It wouldn't 'just' be an old airfield gently decaying. It would be alive.. thats the whole point of it - it would offer much to many.
There is a plaque at Lincoln, but its a Regional one. I'm dissapointed that you feel 55,000 people who died for us represents a minority interest. They died to give us the right to post here - its not a 'minority 'interest' and if thats how it is seen, then shame on us. It is a debt.
Don't forget, there is a whole Bomber Museum at RAF Hendon with lots of stuff on display commemorating Bomber Command. They have a real Lancaster, Wellington and Vulcan and the Halifax dredged off the lake bed in Norway. They also have examples of WW2 bombs including a special section on Barnes Wallis and his "specials".
By all means get Bicester re-instated as an active airfield. I'm 100% behind that.
.. al said:
eccles said:
What operational sorties were flown from Bicester during the war?
Bicester was used to mount operations, no operational units were stationed there.http://www.bbc.co.uk/oxford/content/articles/2008/...
http://www.bc-heritage.org/bicester/Default.htm
They state on this link that they plan to exhibit full size aircraft there in the hangars.... where will these come from? there aren't many aircraft that relevant to bomber command going spare!
.. al said:
The site could remain alive by offering a central location for Air Cadets to conduct camps and training, it could teach skills to disabled servicemen, it could provide accom for some personnel and it could be a venue for many, many events. It wouldn't 'just' be an old airfield gently decaying. It would be alive.. thats the whole point of it - it would offer much to many.
But if there were a need for such an operational facility for air cadets, it would exist already?.. al said:
...I'm dissapointed that you feel 55,000 people who died for us represents a minority interest. They died to give us the right to post here - its not a 'minority 'interest' and if thats how it is seen, then shame on us. It is a debt.
I agree it is a debt. And whilst I acknowledge the later moral concerns about the area bombing policy, I don't think we can allow that to reflect in any way on the bravery or committment of the aircrew who fought it (and to hell with any European contries who think otherwise!).It is not the bomber command campaign is a minority interest, just that the facility/form of commemoration you are suggesting would only attract minority interest... the majority of the population (apart from air cadets, disabled servicemen and a few aircraft anoraks - no offence) would not even register it existed, whereas a major memorial in the centre of Lincoln, London or at a well-established national museum like Hendon or Duxford would give a much broader audience pause for thought.
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