Have aircraft carriers had their day?
Discussion
Reading the Ukraine thread, there has been mention of the power of the US fleet and the amount of immense firepower a single carrier group has,
However it is not 1960 anymore, and no matter how many state of the art aircraft a carrier has on board, if a country fired (for example) ten hypersonic guided missiles at one carrier, would it be helpless?
These precision weapons can literally land to within a few metres of a target.
However it is not 1960 anymore, and no matter how many state of the art aircraft a carrier has on board, if a country fired (for example) ten hypersonic guided missiles at one carrier, would it be helpless?
These precision weapons can literally land to within a few metres of a target.
I am especially interested as my Dad served for three years on HMS Formidable in WW2 in the Pacific, surviving several Kamikaze attacks, several which hit his carrier.
https://www.armouredcarriers.com/hms-formidable-ma...
Here in the cockpit in 1944 aged 20.
https://www.armouredcarriers.com/hms-formidable-ma...
Here in the cockpit in 1944 aged 20.
There’s many layers of defense to get past before the carrier is at risk, and the carriers also have close in defensive systems like CWIS, and no doubt other kit. Also, nobody has hypersonic missile tech capable enough of hitting a moving target like a carrier. Which whilst large, can also move quite quickly, in the 30-40kn range.
A carrier group basically allows you to put an Air Force base (and lots more) with tremendous firepower far enough from harms way, but close enough to inflict serious damage off an enemies coastline without much the enemy can do about it.
A carrier group basically allows you to put an Air Force base (and lots more) with tremendous firepower far enough from harms way, but close enough to inflict serious damage off an enemies coastline without much the enemy can do about it.
Wacky Racer said:
Reading the Ukraine thread, there has been mention of the power of the US fleet and the amount of immense firepower a single carrier group has,
However it is not 1960 anymore, and no matter how many state of the art aircraft a carrier has on board, if a country fired (for example) ten hypersonic guided missiles at one carrier, would it be helpless?
These precision weapons can literally land to within a few metres of a target.
How are you going to find the carrier in a war situation.However it is not 1960 anymore, and no matter how many state of the art aircraft a carrier has on board, if a country fired (for example) ten hypersonic guided missiles at one carrier, would it be helpless?
These precision weapons can literally land to within a few metres of a target.
Without a carrier who is providing the air cover for your battle group? You just lost your outer layer of defence.
Southerner said:
They’ve all got anti missile systems, surely? Wasn’t there one called Goalkeeper back in the day on Illustrious & Invincible?
Goalkeeper and Phalanx. It's mostly phalanx these days.A missiles would more likely be taken out earlier though. That's why you have destroyers.
Wacky Racer said:
if a country fired (for example) ten hypersonic guided missiles at one carrier, would it be helpless?
These precision weapons can literally land to within a few metres of a target.
That's simply not true though is it. Hypersonic missile= surrounded by plasma= no comms whilst hypersonic = no course correction = can't hit a moving target. These precision weapons can literally land to within a few metres of a target.
I often chime in on these threads because I was a Weapons Engineer on carriers (mainly Phalanx).
Rather than regurgitate my views/experince again this article sums it up pretty well and I agree with everything he says...
https://archive.ph/7ThwC
The guy knows his stuff (commanded 4 ships and is an anti-air warfare officer). Carriers are far from obsolete,
It's a long read but worth it to understand the role of carriers, layered defences and hypersonics.
Rather than regurgitate my views/experince again this article sums it up pretty well and I agree with everything he says...
https://archive.ph/7ThwC
The guy knows his stuff (commanded 4 ships and is an anti-air warfare officer). Carriers are far from obsolete,
It's a long read but worth it to understand the role of carriers, layered defences and hypersonics.
Edited by 98elise on Wednesday 25th September 18:54
The potential hot war with china and the USA might test the idea of Carrier groups and modern carriers but i don't think they've had their day. To park a town sized ship close enough to a country to use modern airpower is the best form of hard power projection going. It also speaks to the overall power both financially and militarily of the country fielding them.
If a hot war with china breaks out in the south china sea over mischief or the spratleys the use of anti-ship ballistic missiles like the DF-21D will test a US carrier group but they do have anti missile missiles to counter this stuff and i don't think a carrier group will be operating in those areas alone and anything with china is going to involve Asian countries like Vietnam and the Philippines who will more than likely side with the US.
I think the Pacific is going to dictate the future of carriers due to states like Russia just no having the capabilities to do anything about them like they might have done when they were the USSR and even though drone technology has come along into some futuristic style nightmare there isn't going to be something like the USS cole happening anywhere near one.
If a hot war with china breaks out in the south china sea over mischief or the spratleys the use of anti-ship ballistic missiles like the DF-21D will test a US carrier group but they do have anti missile missiles to counter this stuff and i don't think a carrier group will be operating in those areas alone and anything with china is going to involve Asian countries like Vietnam and the Philippines who will more than likely side with the US.
I think the Pacific is going to dictate the future of carriers due to states like Russia just no having the capabilities to do anything about them like they might have done when they were the USSR and even though drone technology has come along into some futuristic style nightmare there isn't going to be something like the USS cole happening anywhere near one.
CBG's are still very useful.....if you can support them of course.....err, oops.
https://gcaptain.com/us-navy-oiler-usns-big-horn-a...
https://gcaptain.com/us-navy-oiler-usns-big-horn-a...
Sheets Tabuer said:
I'm sure in the Falklands they had the ingenious idea of sticking Destroyers in front of carriers like some sort of shield, I'm also sure missiles have moved on.
Although I'm told each type 45 is like a little armada on it's own.
Destroyers are there to protect ships like Carriers. It wasn't a new thing for the Falklands.Although I'm told each type 45 is like a little armada on it's own.
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