Which microlight?
Discussion
I've seen lots of good advice for budding PPLs here so wonder if any one's got any thoughts on my current dilemma? I can't justify a full blown PPL but have finally decided to go for a microlight licence. I'll be 59 soon and appreciate learning takes longer for old gits like me. I am however one of those loons that jumps out of perfectly good aeroplanes, so I'm not completely in the dark regarding aviation (or hanging around for good weather).
Anyway; any thoughts on weight-shift or three axis? Pro's & cons for each, thank you!
Anyway; any thoughts on weight-shift or three axis? Pro's & cons for each, thank you!
Thanks for the replies, regarding indoors/outdoors, I guess practicality suggests indoors is better. I did experience a weight shift flight many years ago and loved it though.
The NPPL sounds tempting too, but then I assume the cost of flying 'proper' aircraft would be much more? I don't want to end up doing the minimum amount to remain current. Would hours in a microlight count if I did decide to upgrade in the future?
The instructor I've spoken to suggested I get a lesson in each and take it from there. Sounds like a good idea, fingers crossed for the weather over the next few weeks then!
The NPPL sounds tempting too, but then I assume the cost of flying 'proper' aircraft would be much more? I don't want to end up doing the minimum amount to remain current. Would hours in a microlight count if I did decide to upgrade in the future?
The instructor I've spoken to suggested I get a lesson in each and take it from there. Sounds like a good idea, fingers crossed for the weather over the next few weeks then!
If you're going to fly Microlights, then I would strongly suggest the NPPL.
What you've got to remember is, you can fly Microlights on a PPL but none of the hours you log in a Microlight, will count towards the Biannual hours requirement for the PPL, so essentially, if you operate on a PPL, every two years, you will have to sit a skills test in a SEP class, to revalidate the PPL, so unless you have easy access to one of these, then can be a costly exercise.
NPPL has a weight limit on it, but I don't know anyone with a PPL who has used the licence to operate 'heavy' singles up to 5700kg.
What you've got to remember is, you can fly Microlights on a PPL but none of the hours you log in a Microlight, will count towards the Biannual hours requirement for the PPL, so essentially, if you operate on a PPL, every two years, you will have to sit a skills test in a SEP class, to revalidate the PPL, so unless you have easy access to one of these, then can be a costly exercise.
NPPL has a weight limit on it, but I don't know anyone with a PPL who has used the licence to operate 'heavy' singles up to 5700kg.
Do you plan to ever fly things other than microlights?
I used to fly gliders and one study I read years ago there had been I think 7 glider pilots killed in crashes over a period of time, and they all also flew weight shift microlights. They thought they'd all got in to a stall/spin and reverted to thinking as a weight shift pilot and pulled the stick instead of pushing.
I used to fly gliders and one study I read years ago there had been I think 7 glider pilots killed in crashes over a period of time, and they all also flew weight shift microlights. They thought they'd all got in to a stall/spin and reverted to thinking as a weight shift pilot and pulled the stick instead of pushing.
3-axis vs flex-wing/weight shift is really just a personal preference. Taking a lesson in both before making a decision is the best way to go
The licencing situation is complicated and there is currently a CAA consultation to change it further, not least to potentially offer clearer upgrade routes from NPPL/LAPL level to PPL.
https://www.caa.co.uk/general-aviation/pilot-licen...
Currently the NPPL offers three class ratings:
Microlight
Simple Single Engine Aircraft (SSEA - similar to but not exactly the same as Single Engine Piston (SEP) for PPLs)
Self-Launching Motor Gliders (SLMG) – ignored for now).
Microlights allow you to fly either three axis or flex-wing/weight-shift microlights (with differences training available to switch from one to the other) up to 600 KG max take off mass with 1 passenger. SSEA permits you to carry 4 passengers and fly aircraft up to 2,000 KG. It also allows aerobatics and a few other upgrades.
Although both Microlight and SSEA routes officially require fewer hours than a PPL, in practice few student pilots complete the course in minimum hours anyway.
You also need to consider what type of medical you want or can hold. The Pilot Medical Declaration (PMD) allows you to fly if you meet DVLA driving standards and don’t have one of the disqualifying conditions for flying with passengers (if you just want to fly alone you just need to not be suffering from a psychiatric condition. The other two main medical standards for private pilots are the full blown Class 2 medical and the Light Aircraft Pilot’s Licence medical, both of which involve visits to an Aeromedical Examiner (AME).
The SSEA route isn’t available for ab-initio students with a PMD because you’re not allowed to undertake on aircraft certified under Part 21 (think Cessnas, Pipers, most of the PPL training fleet); you can only train on Part 21 with at least a LAPL medical. There aren’t many non-Part 21 aircraft operated for ab-initio flying training.
However it is relatively easy to add subsequently add a SSEA class rating to a NPPL(M).
Modern 3-axis Light Sport Microlights (<600 KG) with Rotax engines and lightweight composites often outperform their older metal ‘spam can’ cousins in performance (speed and range) and comfort. Even the older <450 KG models have a lot going for them. They can very likely cover the vast majority of the flying you might choose to do. Although we all like to take up passengers, we’re often just flying alone so the extra seats in a SSEA may not be worth it. With the right combination of NPPL, medical and aircraft, it’s possible to fly to Europe, even though the NPPL is only a national licence (as opposed to the PPL/LAPL, which are derive from ICAO and EASA conventions).
Cost wise there is a wide range of microlights available. You could spend £250,000 on the latest hot ships or £20,000 on a second hand model, or £4,000 to join a syndicate for the cheapest flying possible.
The licencing situation is complicated and there is currently a CAA consultation to change it further, not least to potentially offer clearer upgrade routes from NPPL/LAPL level to PPL.
https://www.caa.co.uk/general-aviation/pilot-licen...
Currently the NPPL offers three class ratings:
Microlight
Simple Single Engine Aircraft (SSEA - similar to but not exactly the same as Single Engine Piston (SEP) for PPLs)
Self-Launching Motor Gliders (SLMG) – ignored for now).
Microlights allow you to fly either three axis or flex-wing/weight-shift microlights (with differences training available to switch from one to the other) up to 600 KG max take off mass with 1 passenger. SSEA permits you to carry 4 passengers and fly aircraft up to 2,000 KG. It also allows aerobatics and a few other upgrades.
Although both Microlight and SSEA routes officially require fewer hours than a PPL, in practice few student pilots complete the course in minimum hours anyway.
You also need to consider what type of medical you want or can hold. The Pilot Medical Declaration (PMD) allows you to fly if you meet DVLA driving standards and don’t have one of the disqualifying conditions for flying with passengers (if you just want to fly alone you just need to not be suffering from a psychiatric condition. The other two main medical standards for private pilots are the full blown Class 2 medical and the Light Aircraft Pilot’s Licence medical, both of which involve visits to an Aeromedical Examiner (AME).
The SSEA route isn’t available for ab-initio students with a PMD because you’re not allowed to undertake on aircraft certified under Part 21 (think Cessnas, Pipers, most of the PPL training fleet); you can only train on Part 21 with at least a LAPL medical. There aren’t many non-Part 21 aircraft operated for ab-initio flying training.
However it is relatively easy to add subsequently add a SSEA class rating to a NPPL(M).
Modern 3-axis Light Sport Microlights (<600 KG) with Rotax engines and lightweight composites often outperform their older metal ‘spam can’ cousins in performance (speed and range) and comfort. Even the older <450 KG models have a lot going for them. They can very likely cover the vast majority of the flying you might choose to do. Although we all like to take up passengers, we’re often just flying alone so the extra seats in a SSEA may not be worth it. With the right combination of NPPL, medical and aircraft, it’s possible to fly to Europe, even though the NPPL is only a national licence (as opposed to the PPL/LAPL, which are derive from ICAO and EASA conventions).
Cost wise there is a wide range of microlights available. You could spend £250,000 on the latest hot ships or £20,000 on a second hand model, or £4,000 to join a syndicate for the cheapest flying possible.
Thanks once again, some useful information there and pretty much convinced me the NPPL(M) route will do for me. I'll certainly have a go in each before I decide.
That was an interesting point Rizzo regarding the fatalities amongst glider pilots. I guess anyone who has had a go at a flight sim has a rudimentary idea of what pulling/pushing a stick does, let alone how to make it bank. Weight-shift seems counterintuitive so in a high pressure situation I can see how muscle memory could kick in. I'll see how it goes.
That was an interesting point Rizzo regarding the fatalities amongst glider pilots. I guess anyone who has had a go at a flight sim has a rudimentary idea of what pulling/pushing a stick does, let alone how to make it bank. Weight-shift seems counterintuitive so in a high pressure situation I can see how muscle memory could kick in. I'll see how it goes.
7mike said:
Thanks once again, some useful information there and pretty much convinced me the NPPL(M) route will do for me. I'll certainly have a go in each before I decide.
That was an interesting point Rizzo regarding the fatalities amongst glider pilots. I guess anyone who has had a go at a flight sim has a rudimentary idea of what pulling/pushing a stick does, let alone how to make it bank. Weight-shift seems counterintuitive so in a high pressure situation I can see how muscle memory could kick in. I'll see how it goes.
I started off on model aircraft, then flew gliders, then went to weight-shift hang gliders, then flew various microlights (weightshift and three axis) and light aircraft, then back to gliders and now back to model aircraft. At no point did I have any issue whether I should push or pull. The only thing I found was that weight-shift microlights tend to have steering like a homemade go kart (push left/go right), which took some remembering when confronted by rudder pedals again, but that was the only concern.That was an interesting point Rizzo regarding the fatalities amongst glider pilots. I guess anyone who has had a go at a flight sim has a rudimentary idea of what pulling/pushing a stick does, let alone how to make it bank. Weight-shift seems counterintuitive so in a high pressure situation I can see how muscle memory could kick in. I'll see how it goes.
With a hang glider, more so than a weight-shift microlight, you are moving your body in the direction you want to go, rather than trying to make the wing go somewhere, as you do when sitting in a trike.
Edited by GliderRider on Wednesday 3rd July 10:32
GliderRider said:
Is started off on model aircraft, then flew gliders, then went to weight-shift hang gliders, then flew various microlights (weightshift and three axis) and light aircraft, then back to gliders and now back to model aircraft. At no point did I have any issue whether I should push or pull. The only thing I found was that weight-shift microlights tend to have steering like a homemade go kart (push left/go right), which took some remembering when confronted by rudder pedals again, but that was the only concern.
With a hang glider, more so than a weight-shift microlight, you are moving your body in the direction you want to go, rather than trying to make the wing go somewhere as you do when sitting in a trike.
That's good to know, I think I'll stop confusing myself and wait to have a go. Fingers crossed for tomorrow's weather, not sure it's looking good here With a hang glider, more so than a weight-shift microlight, you are moving your body in the direction you want to go, rather than trying to make the wing go somewhere as you do when sitting in a trike.
GliderRider said:
Having flown for several hours in a friend's Skyranger on 2nd January one year, my first question would be, 'Does it have a heater?', If the answer is 'No', move on!
Having jumped out of planes at minus something silly, I know what you mean. A minute in freefall is bad enough, sitting there for several hours can't be very pleasant, maybe open flying isn't such a good idea after all.I've nearly 1000hrs flying Flexwing microlights and about 30 in fixed wing. You can guess where my ideas about fun flying are focused.
Ignore the bit about heaters. Here in Scotland I've flown in shorts and t-shirts in the summer then changed to heated jacket and gloves in the winter to pop over Ben Nevis.
A big consideration should be what you intend to do once you qualify. The reality is that unless you get into touring, so eg taking off in Scotland and and heading off around Europe (all easily done but does require a fair bit of planning and flexibility with regard to weather) then the majority of your flying will be local, often with a mate in the passenger seat and likely to be in a small group of others doing the flying equivalent of a blast in a car along the B-roads. That might involve you and a mate flying off somewhere a couple of hrs away for lunch and heading back, or it may mean a couple of hrs skimming quiet beaches and coastlines, or just taking an afternoon to drop into various strips for a coffee and bacon roll.
Doing that in a Flexwing gives me the physical interaction with the aircraft, the full-on exposure to the elements and a genuine thrill and buzz. Every time I take passengers they experience the same buzz. I've never had the same thrill in a 3-axis aircraft but obviously that's not the same for everyone else.
Once you have your NPPL and get a bit of confidence on the radio you can also mix with the big boys and fast jets in controlled airspace if you want.
Ignore the bit about heaters. Here in Scotland I've flown in shorts and t-shirts in the summer then changed to heated jacket and gloves in the winter to pop over Ben Nevis.
A big consideration should be what you intend to do once you qualify. The reality is that unless you get into touring, so eg taking off in Scotland and and heading off around Europe (all easily done but does require a fair bit of planning and flexibility with regard to weather) then the majority of your flying will be local, often with a mate in the passenger seat and likely to be in a small group of others doing the flying equivalent of a blast in a car along the B-roads. That might involve you and a mate flying off somewhere a couple of hrs away for lunch and heading back, or it may mean a couple of hrs skimming quiet beaches and coastlines, or just taking an afternoon to drop into various strips for a coffee and bacon roll.
Doing that in a Flexwing gives me the physical interaction with the aircraft, the full-on exposure to the elements and a genuine thrill and buzz. Every time I take passengers they experience the same buzz. I've never had the same thrill in a 3-axis aircraft but obviously that's not the same for everyone else.
Once you have your NPPL and get a bit of confidence on the radio you can also mix with the big boys and fast jets in controlled airspace if you want.
7mike said:
It is a great feeling being outside, especially when it's T-shirt weather 
One thing you might find an issue though if you're not used to small aircraft. I used to vaguely know one of the Red Devils and he he hated landing in thier Islander. He said why would he trust an aircraft when he had perfectly good parachute on his back 
RizzoTheRat said:
One thing you might find an issue though if you're not used to small aircraft. I used to vaguely know one of the Red Devils and he he hated landing in thier Islander. He said why would he trust an aircraft when he had perfectly good parachute on his back
Yeh, that's a good point, I forgot what it's like to land in a plane 
RizzoTheRat said:
7mike said:
It is a great feeling being outside, especially when it's T-shirt weather
One thing you might find an issue though if you're not used to small aircraft. I used to vaguely know one of the Red Devils and he he hated landing in thier Islander. He said why would he trust an aircraft when he had perfectly good parachute on his back RizzoTheRat said:
7mike said:
It is a great feeling being outside, especially when it's T-shirt weather
One thing you might find an issue though if you're not used to small aircraft. I used to vaguely know one of the Red Devils and he he hated landing in thier Islander. He said why would he trust an aircraft when he had perfectly good parachute on his back geeks said:
Where as I still cant really get my head around regularly jumping out of a perfectly serviceable aircraft (I have once, great fun but not for me)
That pic above was out of the back of a Soviet era Mi8 helicopter. There was a thread in the scale model section a few years back by a guy making a model of the one he crashed in 
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