TfW - £2bn to re-open Carmarthen & Bangor lines
Discussion
tfw said:
Re-opening railway lines that were shut in the 1960s and have left large towns without a direct rail link would cost £2bn, Transport for Wales has said.
TfW looked at the line between Carmarthen and Aberystwyth, Ceredigion and Afon Wen and Bangor in Gwynedd.
Since the closure of the Aberystwyth to Carmarthen line, taking the train between the two towns - which are just 49 miles apart - takes seven hours.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-68003542?fbclid=IwAR3dy2C2sH20qXVwI6H2qy7kU6M3OuMdNZpftxT-EthCgDNymZhjueRa8bM_aem_AaIjeQvZYCxSq8u6gh2Z9AvMcXzSeskfLItSMErB1u2EwrvOyTZDIJEYQlBfkNWGp_YTfW looked at the line between Carmarthen and Aberystwyth, Ceredigion and Afon Wen and Bangor in Gwynedd.
Since the closure of the Aberystwyth to Carmarthen line, taking the train between the two towns - which are just 49 miles apart - takes seven hours.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-68003542?fbcli...
Good idea or waste of time and money?
Discuss
Edited by Ffordd Ar Gau on Monday 22 January 11:00
There is a bus between Carmarthen and Aberystwyth…
Think it’s about 2 hours door to door.
The current train journey is to take the Heart of Wales line up to Shropshire, then change onto a train back to Aberystwyth via Newtown. Change again and you can get a train to Pwllheli/Porthmadog, then bus again to Caernarfon/Bangor. I’m sure a Gog will correct me on the availability of buses up there!
Is it mad that TfW have even considered this option!?
Think it’s about 2 hours door to door.
The current train journey is to take the Heart of Wales line up to Shropshire, then change onto a train back to Aberystwyth via Newtown. Change again and you can get a train to Pwllheli/Porthmadog, then bus again to Caernarfon/Bangor. I’m sure a Gog will correct me on the availability of buses up there!
Is it mad that TfW have even considered this option!?
One assumes that the track bed is still intact?
No houses built on it?
No station buildings sold to private development where the old platforms formed a base for a swimming pool?
So £2bn to make sure the line base is usable/repair as needed and bung some track down?
Perhaps if TfW agreed to remove the silly 20mph limits it may make some sense!
No houses built on it?
No station buildings sold to private development where the old platforms formed a base for a swimming pool?
So £2bn to make sure the line base is usable/repair as needed and bung some track down?
Perhaps if TfW agreed to remove the silly 20mph limits it may make some sense!
ferret50 said:
One assumes that the track bed is still intact?
No houses built on it?
No station buildings sold to private development where the old platforms formed a base for a swimming pool?
So £2bn to make sure the line base is usable/repair as needed and bung some track down?
Perhaps if TfW agreed to remove the silly 20mph limits it may make some sense!
Different entities as TfW run trains and some bus services here, and it was the Assembly (Government) that brought in the 20mph. But it wouldn’t hurt to have sent that £30 of million to improve rail and transport links!No houses built on it?
No station buildings sold to private development where the old platforms formed a base for a swimming pool?
So £2bn to make sure the line base is usable/repair as needed and bung some track down?
Perhaps if TfW agreed to remove the silly 20mph limits it may make some sense!
In answer to the first point. In terms of the line between Carmarthen and Aberystwyth:
- Yes, many houses/industrial units have been built on the land since. Stations/yards turned into residential or industrial areas etc.
- There’s a heritage railway on part of it.
- Bridges have been removed.
- Part of the line has been turned into a pedestrian/cycle route
- The old line runs through a Nature Reserve (Cors Caron)
- Farmers who owned land on two sides of the line have ‘merged’ their fields again.
It should happen. It won't, but it should. We need to embrace light passenger rail in the UK and re-open many of the old lines that were lost cuts.
I'm not even going to pretend it's possible to make an economic argument for it because such arguments simply don't materialise outside of London unless you actually commit to the having devent services.
I'm not even going to pretend it's possible to make an economic argument for it because such arguments simply don't materialise outside of London unless you actually commit to the having devent services.
Evanivitch said:
It should happen. It won't, but it should. We need to embrace light passenger rail in the UK and re-open many of the old lines that were lost cuts.
I'm not even going to pretend it's possible to make an economic argument for it
Precisely - that money has to come from somewhere, and to get three people to the shops every other Tuesday it patently should not happen. Bad luck to the three people but you can't have everything you want. Idealism meets reality...I'm not even going to pretend it's possible to make an economic argument for it
Simpo Two said:
Precisely - that money has to come from somewhere, and to get three people to the shops every other Tuesday it patently should not happen. Bad luck to the three people but you can't have everything you want. Idealism meets reality...
Not quite.Linking Aberystwyth to Carmarthen and on to Swansea opens up several economic benefits that you can only make projections for at this time. Because right now that route is a PITA.
Simpo Two said:
Evanivitch said:
It should happen. It won't, but it should. We need to embrace light passenger rail in the UK and re-open many of the old lines that were lost cuts.
I'm not even going to pretend it's possible to make an economic argument for it
Precisely - that money has to come from somewhere, and to get three people to the shops every other Tuesday it patently should not happen. Bad luck to the three people but you can't have everything you want. Idealism meets reality...I'm not even going to pretend it's possible to make an economic argument for it
Evanivitch said:
Linking Aberystwyth to Carmarthen and on to Swansea opens up several economic benefits that you can only make projections for at this time. Because right now that route is a PITA.
Would you happen to know what the economic benefits are, and when they will pay back the taxpayer's investment? The Welsh economy already depends on the English economy to the tune of £18Bn a year; perhaps they just fancy a free railway line on top?Simpo Two said:
Would you happen to know what the economic benefits are, and when they will pay back the taxpayer's investment? The Welsh economy already depends on the English economy to the tune of £18Bn a year; perhaps they just fancy a free railway line on top?
It wouldn't have been free, it would obviously be part of the HS2 funds shared with Wales, right? Because Welsh taxpayers funding a project which could have benefited Wales but likely won't any more...The economic benefits are linking three university towns together with a long history of industrial, medical and agricultural research and development. Weirdly, when someone suggests the same between two English university towns it's not even questioned...
Evanivitch said:
Simpo Two said:
Would you happen to know what the economic benefits are, and when they will pay back the taxpayer's investment? The Welsh economy already depends on the English economy to the tune of £18Bn a year; perhaps they just fancy a free railway line on top?
It wouldn't have been free, it would obviously be part of the HS2 funds shared with Wales, right? Because Welsh taxpayers funding a project which could have benefited Wales but likely won't any more...The economic benefits are linking three university towns together with a long history of industrial, medical and agricultural research and development. Weirdly, when someone suggests the same between two English university towns it's not even questioned...
r3g said:
Indeed. Even if it was rebuilt and running, nobody would use it because the tickets would be £300 each way, if train journeys on the other lines in the UK is an indicator. The notion that people in Aberystwyth would use it to commute to Swansea and beyond is pie in the sky nonsense. Just stick a couple more buses on the route, problem solved and 1/100th of the cost.
Aberystwyth to Swansea is 70 miles (and 2 hours) by car. There are many, many people that make similar trips from South Wales into Bristol, and train ticket from Bridgend to Bristol Parkway tomorrow morning is £30 anytime return and takes an hour. Temple Meads 1h20.
But hey let's pull numbers from the rectum and see what sticks!
Evanivitch said:
r3g said:
Indeed. Even if it was rebuilt and running, nobody would use it because the tickets would be £300 each way, if train journeys on the other lines in the UK is an indicator. The notion that people in Aberystwyth would use it to commute to Swansea and beyond is pie in the sky nonsense. Just stick a couple more buses on the route, problem solved and 1/100th of the cost.
Aberystwyth to Swansea is 70 miles (and 2 hours) by car. There are many, many people that make similar trips from South Wales into Bristol, and train ticket from Bridgend to Bristol Parkway tomorrow morning is £30 anytime return and takes an hour. Temple Meads 1h20.
But hey let's pull numbers from the rectum and see what sticks!
r3g said:
Indeed. Even if it was rebuilt and running, nobody would use it because the tickets would be £300 each way, if train journeys on the other lines in the UK is an indicator. The notion that people in Aberystwyth would use it to commute to Swansea and beyond is pie in the sky nonsense. Just stick a couple more buses on the route, problem solved and 1/100th of the cost.
I can only assume comments like this are bourne out of ignorance. Most commuter routes are dirt cheap. Certainly cheaper than the parking alone in many cases.
Ffordd Ar Gau said:
ferret50 said:
One assumes that the track bed is still intact?
No houses built on it?
No station buildings sold to private development where the old platforms formed a base for a swimming pool?
So £2bn to make sure the line base is usable/repair as needed and bung some track down?
Perhaps if TfW agreed to remove the silly 20mph limits it may make some sense!
Different entities as TfW run trains and some bus services here, and it was the Assembly (Government) that brought in the 20mph. But it wouldn’t hurt to have sent that £30 of million to improve rail and transport links!No houses built on it?
No station buildings sold to private development where the old platforms formed a base for a swimming pool?
So £2bn to make sure the line base is usable/repair as needed and bung some track down?
Perhaps if TfW agreed to remove the silly 20mph limits it may make some sense!
In answer to the first point. In terms of the line between Carmarthen and Aberystwyth:
- Yes, many houses/industrial units have been built on the land since. Stations/yards turned into residential or industrial areas etc.
- There’s a heritage railway on part of it.
- Bridges have been removed.
- Part of the line has been turned into a pedestrian/cycle route
- The old line runs through a Nature Reserve (Cors Caron)
- Farmers who owned land on two sides of the line have ‘merged’ their fields again.
Puts the proposal into a mini HST2 type project with all of the costing.
Just stumbled on this, what a joke.
Bangor, and Aberystwyth are 2 towns (well, Bangor is technically a city) that Ive traveled between frequently. Both have train stations, and there is a trainline between Porthmadog and Aberystwyth, but last time I tried to use it, there was a replacement coach, which was a van.
The drive takes just under two hours, if youre pootling along in a normal car, in normal traffic, but if your life depended on you doing it in less than an hour at 3am, and you had a quick car and you were relatively familiar with the road, you might do it. Youd have to be nuts, but its definately not impossible.
If you take the bus, youre in for 3 hours of misery. You might have to change busses, or it might do it in one trip. Theres no internet for many parts of the route, so chances are youll be bored. On the plus side, its only £6 for a return ticket.
I should also point out that there used to be a railway line from Porthmadog to Bangor (or possibly only as far as Felinheli, not sure) but that's been turned into a cycle track.
Wales is a remarkably difficult country to cross, the southern bit has the M4, and the northern bit has the A55, and that pretty much completes the list of dual carridgeways. They both head East-West, and have railways that go in a similar route. There are only a couple of A roads that head north-south, and at some points they are so narrow that Ive had to reverse for HGVs, and there are very very limited chances to overtake.
There was of course a third way of getting between north and south Wales, there are flights between Cardiff airport and Anglesey airport, but they were axed perminantly.
Bangor, and Aberystwyth are 2 towns (well, Bangor is technically a city) that Ive traveled between frequently. Both have train stations, and there is a trainline between Porthmadog and Aberystwyth, but last time I tried to use it, there was a replacement coach, which was a van.
The drive takes just under two hours, if youre pootling along in a normal car, in normal traffic, but if your life depended on you doing it in less than an hour at 3am, and you had a quick car and you were relatively familiar with the road, you might do it. Youd have to be nuts, but its definately not impossible.
If you take the bus, youre in for 3 hours of misery. You might have to change busses, or it might do it in one trip. Theres no internet for many parts of the route, so chances are youll be bored. On the plus side, its only £6 for a return ticket.
I should also point out that there used to be a railway line from Porthmadog to Bangor (or possibly only as far as Felinheli, not sure) but that's been turned into a cycle track.
Wales is a remarkably difficult country to cross, the southern bit has the M4, and the northern bit has the A55, and that pretty much completes the list of dual carridgeways. They both head East-West, and have railways that go in a similar route. There are only a couple of A roads that head north-south, and at some points they are so narrow that Ive had to reverse for HGVs, and there are very very limited chances to overtake.
There was of course a third way of getting between north and south Wales, there are flights between Cardiff airport and Anglesey airport, but they were axed perminantly.
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