Hogwarts Express: In trouble

[Milkyway]

Hopefully a resolution can be found...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-i...

[Bonefish Blues]

Whisper it quietly but if anyone goes on it expecting a Harry Potter experience they will be disappointed - it very carefully negotiates copyright issues, so it's a nice ride on a chuffer train really

ETA
And on theme, it (each carriage) is policed by stewards watching the passengers so they can't stick their heads out of the windows, never mind open a door and fling themselves to their deaths.

Edited by Bonefish Blues on Tuesday 28th November 19:00

[Milkyway]

There won’t be any flying Anglia’s either

[Jader1973]

I had a booking in July - cancelled due to “unforeseen circumstances” with 24 hours notice, received as I parked in the hotel car park in Fort William (wonderful, it was the only reason we’d gone).

“Unforeseen circumstances” my arse - they knew the ORR wanted locks fitted and ignored it, so they got shut down again and again over the summer.

The stewards are allegedly volunteers - what a great way to run a commercial enterprise that attracts tourists from all over the world.

They deserve to be shutdown.

[Bonefish Blues]

We booked in March and it reopened a few days before our trip, so we got lucky. I didn't realise it was a volunteer workforce in part.

[PurpleFox]

£7 million for central locking to be fitted to the carriages... the worlds gone mad.

Unless they are over egging it convince the judge its not viable

[miniman]

Bonefish Blues said:

ETA
And on theme, it (each carriage) is policed by stewards watching the passengers so they can't stick their heads out of the windows, never mind open a door and fling themselves to their deaths.

Yep you’re right, you absolutely can’t lean out of the windows. I definitely didn’t.

[Milkyway]

PurpleFox said:

£7 million for central locking to be fitted to the carriages... the worlds gone mad.

Unless they are over egging it convince the judge its not viable

That would certainly put the ticket prices up.

[Yertis]

Every last little pleasure in life getting taken away by zealots of one kind or another. Standing by an open railway carriiage droplight, watching the world whizz by

[CoolHands]

How many people have ever fallen off that train while moving, by opening the doors?

[Collectingbrass]

CoolHands said:

How many people have ever fallen off that train while moving, by opening the doors?

Not this one, but similar: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/report-132023-s...

RIAB said:

"Measures implemented by the railway had not effectively controlled the risk of passengers using doors which were not adjacent to usable platforms"

The argument will hinge on whether the risk has been reduced to As Low As Reasonably Practicable. ORR will no doubt say there is enough rolling stock available that they could have interlocked doors, WCR will say the cost of replacement stock is out of proportion to the risk score. I'd say seeing a steam engine pulling MK3 stock painted Crismon Lake or Blood & Custard makes my teeth itch but I can see why it is done, and I would rather steam is still allowed out at all than not.

I don't think WCR have a leg to stand on, other heritage railways have been doing this for years. https://www.railadvent.co.uk/2020/06/mid-norfolk-r...

[Simpo Two]

CoolHands said:

How many people have ever fallen off that train while moving, by opening the doors?

It seems that unless passengers are locked in, they are "at risk of serious personal injury".

Welcome to the 21st century and what they call 'liberal democracy'.

[JuniorD]

Collectingbrass said:

The argument will hinge on whether the risk has been reduced to As Low As Reasonably Practicable. ORR will no doubt say there is enough rolling stock available that they could have interlocked doors, WCR will say the cost of replacement stock is out of proportion to the risk score. I'd say seeing a steam engine pulling MK3 stock painted Crismon Lake or Blood & Custard makes my teeth itch but I can see why it is done, and I would rather steam is still allowed out at all than not.

I don't think WCR have a leg to stand on, other heritage railways have been doing this for years. https://www.railadvent.co.uk/2020/06/mid-norfolk-r...

That case above is all about someone alighting the tran carriage adjacent the sloped ramp area at the end of the platform. Unless fitted with a system that could have prevented operation of the particular door due to its location relative the platform, surely the outcome would have been the same regardless of what type of lock the door had?

[vikingaero]

Jader1973 said:

“Unforeseen circumstances” my arse - they knew the ORR wanted locks fitted and ignored it, so they got shut down again and again over the summer.

The stewards are allegedly volunteers - what a great way to run a commercial enterprise that attracts tourists from all over the world.

They deserve to be shutdown.

The £7 million cost of locks WCR say would be 10 years of profits. So they make £700k a year profit and they rely on volunteers rather than remunerating Staff?

I thought this would be a charitable trust, but from companies house they are a full on private company. And £700k profit? Last year they made £1.7m net profit. Hmmm......

[ettore]

It's a commercial business that operates heritage equipment - I think there's always a bit of compromise and nothing would run without some volunteer labour (which shouldn't in itself be an issue, 'volunteer' being the key).There are also significant periodic 'one-off' costs in running these bits of kit.

Having said that, others that operate elsewhere have fitted central locking, so it can be done and perhaps it would be wisely done..

The Hogwarts thing is a misnomer really - it has popularised it but these things pre-existed the films. The line itself is wonderful.

[LotusOmega375D]

Is that the line that goes past the Silver Sands of Morar? I remember passing it on the train one summer several decades ago: it looked like an idyllic Caribbean beach to me, although I dare say, the water was probably a bit cooler.

As for central locking? Surely it’s not that important? Millions of people of all ages (me included) managed to take thousands of rides on trains with manual door latches without ever falling to our deaths. If you hadn’t reached the ticket office platform exit by the time the train actually came to a halt, you weren’t trying!

[DaveyBoyWonder]

Collectingbrass said:

The argument will hinge on whether the risk has been reduced to As Low As Reasonably Practicable. ORR will no doubt say there is enough rolling stock available that they could have interlocked doors, WCR will say the cost of replacement stock is out of proportion to the risk score. I'd say seeing a steam engine pulling MK3 stock painted Crismon Lake or Blood & Custard makes my teeth itch but I can see why it is done, and I would rather steam is still allowed out at all than not.

I don't think WCR have a leg to stand on, other heritage railways have been doing this for years. https://www.railadvent.co.uk/2020/06/mid-norfolk-r...

I've no idea how much rolling stock costs but you'd think £7m would get you a nice rake of mk3s. I think they'd look pretty good - pretty sure there was a painted mk3 in the Deltic/SNG run up to Edinburgh and back to London last week??? Or do mk2s offer locking? Guess theres not so many mk2s knocking about at the minute though whereas there must be a decent supply of mk3s if they're piling them up at Great Yarmouth ready for a jaunt to Mexico!

[yellowjack]

JuniorD said:

Collectingbrass said:

The argument will hinge on whether the risk has been reduced to As Low As Reasonably Practicable. ORR will no doubt say there is enough rolling stock available that they could have interlocked doors, WCR will say the cost of replacement stock is out of proportion to the risk score. I'd say seeing a steam engine pulling MK3 stock painted Crismon Lake or Blood & Custard makes my teeth itch but I can see why it is done, and I would rather steam is still allowed out at all than not.

I don't think WCR have a leg to stand on, other heritage railways have been doing this for years. https://www.railadvent.co.uk/2020/06/mid-norfolk-r...

That case above is all about someone alighting the train carriage adjacent the sloped ramp area at the end of the platform. Unless fitted with a system that could have prevented operation of the particular door due to its location relative the platform, surely the outcome would have been the same regardless of what type of lock the door had?

The point with short platforms is that crew controlled doors can be locked or opened 'carriage by carriage', as well as all at once. So where a train is calling at a short platformed station, you usually get announcements all through the journey telling "passengers who wish to alight" at such stations that they "must travel in coaches 2 to 6, as the doors in coach 1 will not open".

The Swanage Railway jumped through all kinds of hoops to make a three-car (Class 117) diesel multiple unit fit to comply with regulations for mainline use. That line is still connected to the mainline with access through Wareham station. The plan, this year, was to bring passengers travelling by train from Wareham directly onto stock owned/run by the Heritage line. They'd either pre-book or be sold their ticket at Wareham, then get free reign on the steam hauled trains further on down the line, before returning on the diesel three-car to Wareham for the change onto South Western scheduled services back home. I'm not sure it was regarded as successful or not, after they sank a fair chunk into the adaptations to old diesel stock, and I'm fairly sure it took longer to make it all work than they'd planned, but there is experience in doing this kind of work.

To my mind, though, passenger operated "slam door" rolling stock is part of the attraction of visiting Heritage Railways. I remember it on mainline commuter services up from Farnborough to Waterloo in the not too distant past, and I don't recall hearing about many issue with it back then. Obviously safety is important, but does it trump historical originality? There are many cases of old buildings which owners would really like to modernise for reasons of safety and efficiency, but planners prohibit it. Why does it seem to be the opposite way around with Heritage Railways?

[cookie1600]

So does this ruling affect every other heritage railway line operator open for the public in the UK? That's going to finish the vast majority of them I'd have thought.

[yellowjack]

cookie1600 said:

So does this ruling affect every other heritage railway line operator open for the public in the UK? That's going to finish the vast majority of them I'd have thought.

I don't think it does. I've a funny feeling that the Office Of Road And Rail is particularly interested in this case because it utilises the Network Rail operated main railway line. As I posted above, when the Swanage Railway wanted to run a regular train to Wareham, they needed to refit and modernise their Class 117 and 121 DMUs to meet mainline signalling and safety standards. Which is as it should be, I feel. If you literally want to play with your own trains on someone else's train set, you get to play by their rules. If that's a cost you aren't willing to bear, then restore your own Heritage Railway Line and run your trains on that.