Multi Type Rated Pilots...

Author
Discussion

WarrenB

Original Poster:

2,609 posts

125 months

Friday 27th October 2023
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Using TUI as an example as they're the only airline I can think of that have a mix of short haul and long haul operations from my nearest airport.

If you were multi type rated and could fly the 737 and the 787 (as a first officer or captain) and the airline had both types operating from your base would you be limited to flying just the one type, or would you be rota'd so you get a mix of short and long haul flights? Or would you need to be at senior captain levels before you could have more control over what you fly?

Gunso

1,101 posts

257 months

Saturday 28th October 2023
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TUI crew that fly the 737 and 787 swap on a seasonal basis. Mostly (but not always) 737 in the summer and 787 in the winter.

Paradoxically it is the most junior pilots that face the challenge of operating both types. Generally, the senior guys tend to avoid the 737.

(The 787 does do shortfall as well.)

Royal Jelly

3,758 posts

205 months

Sunday 29th October 2023
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Short vs long haul really has nothing to do with it, other than those being the routes that each type are generally deployed on..

I fly both long and short haul in a 380. The majority of my trips are further afield, purely because the majority of 380 flights at my company are further.

Some companies, like TUI, split seasonally. Others do actual concurrent mixed flying in 2 types. Rules around it vary by both jurisdiction and aircraft. Not to teach anyone to suck eggs, but Airbus commonality between types is very close. Far more so than on Boeings. Hence, you’ll a see plenty of mixed airbus flying around but the Boeing equivalent seems to be to split by season.

I flew mixed 330/350 before with no issue. It helps to fly both with a degree of regularity, of course - and obviously there’s some additional workload to keep on top of the manuals of both types.

I’ll probably by flying 380/350 together within a year or so, which is even more of an alignment in terms of operating and managing the flight deck, but the obvious size & weight differences will be the challenge there - along with the benign ground operation of the 350 and the very limiting and fairly challenging ground operation of the 380. Again, regularly flying both is key in my opinion.

There’s all sorts of jargon and permutations of mixed-type flying (MFF/CCQ etc) which governs how the recency/currency is managed.

In short, it can work well and provide a bit of variety as a bonus; but it needs to be properly managed.

Edited by Royal Jelly on Sunday 29th October 08:48

andy97

4,737 posts

229 months

Sunday 29th October 2023
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My human factors / ergonomics accident investigating better half tells me that switching between flying different types of aircraft is an accident waiting to happen.

Royal Jelly

3,758 posts

205 months

Sunday 29th October 2023
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And yet, here we are with no accidents attributed to mixed fleet flying.

There are far bigger risks to airline safety than this.

Claret m

122 posts

76 months

Sunday 29th October 2023
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As the poster above points out, it’s the junior pilots that get the chance to fly both. The one aircraft for the whole summer or winter.

Senior pilots tend to want an easier life, particularly when the 787 and 737 are so different. ( sim checks, refresher training etc.)

However, more senior pilots choose lifestyle including where they live, that may dictate the aircraft flown.

WarrenB

Original Poster:

2,609 posts

125 months

Monday 30th October 2023
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Fantastic insights, cheers!

wolfracesonic

7,497 posts

134 months

Monday 30th October 2023
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Royal Jelly said:
And yet, here we are with no accidents attributed to mixed fleet flying.

There are far bigger risks to airline safety than this.
If you were to do no flying for a year, then got straight back in the cockpit and had to fly your Airbus/Boeing from a-b with no simulator time or refreshing of procedures, what would you struggle with most, the stick and rudder stuff or more ‘what button does what’?

Royal Jelly

3,758 posts

205 months

Monday 30th October 2023
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wolfracesonic said:
If you were to do no flying for a year, then got straight back in the cockpit and had to fly your Airbus/Boeing from a-b with no simulator time or refreshing of procedures, what would you struggle with most, the stick and rudder stuff or more ‘what button does what’?
Speaking purely for myself, for me I think it would be more policy/procedural stuff that would present the bigger challenge, rather than the technical or stick and rudder. There‘s a stack of various manuals to keep on top of, ranging from type specific, company policies, regional, country etc which are continually evolving and being updated - which you have to keep up to speed with. Easy enough when you’re doing it frequently, but a year off would call for a hefty update!

Stick and rudder is a bit like riding a bike. I’m sure it wouldn’t be pretty, but passable; but on the procedural side, for example an engine failure on takeoff, I’d wager I’d be happy enough with the actual aircraft control, but if I hadn’t picked up a manual in that year, the ‘flow’ of the procedures dealing with the emergency would be less fluent, shall we say!

Just pontificating.

wolfracesonic

7,497 posts

134 months

Tuesday 31st October 2023
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^ thumbup

jinkster

2,277 posts

163 months

Tuesday 7th November 2023
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A previous airline I worked for trainers flew 777/787 together but none trainers and FO's flew single fleet flying.

An airline down the road from that one - everyone flew 777/787 as its a common type.


48k

13,953 posts

155 months

Wednesday 8th November 2023
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WarrenB said:
Using TUI as an example as they're the only airline I can think of that have a mix of short haul and long haul operations from my nearest airport.

If you were multi type rated and could fly the 737 and the 787 (as a first officer or captain) and the airline had both types operating from your base would you be limited to flying just the one type, or would you be rota'd so you get a mix of short and long haul flights? Or would you need to be at senior captain levels before you could have more control over what you fly?
Incase you are not aware, it's also an issue for the cabin crew as well. Each different aircraft type has different layouts and equipment and locations for all the safety equipment. Not sure if it applies to TUI but for Monarch (remember them?) who operated Boeing and Airbus short and long haul fleets, each member of the cabin crew was tested before a duty with 2-3 questions on things like locations of portable oxygen etc to make sure they were competent to operate the flight. Get your question(s) wrong and you were stood down and the standby called up.