Struggling boat noob
Discussion
More of a moan than a question but any point in the right direction would be gratefully received.
Bought my first boat on Friday, I've wanted one for nigh on 25 years but life kept getting in the way as it does.
I am a mechanic by trade and for many years have earned a living managing and repairing fleets of commercial vehicles but I am the first to admit I know virtually NOTHING about boats, but on Friday the perfect (for me) specimen popped up on Facebook market place, so I added yet another impulse buy to my long list and finally ticked the boat box.
Its certainly not glamorous, its a 1992 Fletcher Arrowflyte with a 2009 Honda 50hp four stroke. Its in great condition, no cracks, good floors, transome all looks solid. Seats are tired but that is an easy fix. Previous owner reckons the engine has only a couple of hundred hours on it and only logged about six last year. Regardless he has had it fully serviced each year for the four years he has owned it. Only selling as he is getting older and had started to struggle getting on and off, leading to him avoiding using it.
My gripe is how difficult it is to find answers as to what is specifically needed to use the bloody thing. I've seen forums where it is stated that if launching into the sea, if you can get to the water to launch and there isn't a sign saying specifically otherwise you are good to go pretty much anywhere. Then the next place I've looked will totally contradict that information. The GOV.UK site is less than useless.
Some places need qualifications, others don't. We are looking to use it off Anglesey, from what I can deduce I am going to need a licence to launch from anywhere on the island at a cost of about £160 per year and some form of third part insurance. Beyond that Im completely lost!!
Bought my first boat on Friday, I've wanted one for nigh on 25 years but life kept getting in the way as it does.
I am a mechanic by trade and for many years have earned a living managing and repairing fleets of commercial vehicles but I am the first to admit I know virtually NOTHING about boats, but on Friday the perfect (for me) specimen popped up on Facebook market place, so I added yet another impulse buy to my long list and finally ticked the boat box.
Its certainly not glamorous, its a 1992 Fletcher Arrowflyte with a 2009 Honda 50hp four stroke. Its in great condition, no cracks, good floors, transome all looks solid. Seats are tired but that is an easy fix. Previous owner reckons the engine has only a couple of hundred hours on it and only logged about six last year. Regardless he has had it fully serviced each year for the four years he has owned it. Only selling as he is getting older and had started to struggle getting on and off, leading to him avoiding using it.
My gripe is how difficult it is to find answers as to what is specifically needed to use the bloody thing. I've seen forums where it is stated that if launching into the sea, if you can get to the water to launch and there isn't a sign saying specifically otherwise you are good to go pretty much anywhere. Then the next place I've looked will totally contradict that information. The GOV.UK site is less than useless.
Some places need qualifications, others don't. We are looking to use it off Anglesey, from what I can deduce I am going to need a licence to launch from anywhere on the island at a cost of about £160 per year and some form of third part insurance. Beyond that Im completely lost!!
Hi, we had similar when launching our boat for the dive club.
Best bet is ring / drop by 3 yards / launches you like the look of and ask what the score is.
On the east coast over here, they take the trailer in directly in most areas due to sandy beaches, you might be able to use your own vehicle your side for example to keep the costs down.
Launch fees vary based on location and time of year but you don’t want to inhibit the limited time you can spend on the water with a restrictive launch process (we get that a bit over here due to tides etc), so local knowledge is a great place to start either via owners in those boatyards or the crews manning them.
Best bet is ring / drop by 3 yards / launches you like the look of and ask what the score is.
On the east coast over here, they take the trailer in directly in most areas due to sandy beaches, you might be able to use your own vehicle your side for example to keep the costs down.
Launch fees vary based on location and time of year but you don’t want to inhibit the limited time you can spend on the water with a restrictive launch process (we get that a bit over here due to tides etc), so local knowledge is a great place to start either via owners in those boatyards or the crews manning them.
We have a caravan on Anglesey which is why it will ultimately be living down there but would like to get a feel for it beforehand.
We actually live in the North West, relatively close to the coast but its nigh on impossible to find somewhere local to turn up and just chuck it in the sea.
We are within easy reach of the Lake District which is actually looking like the easiest place to just turn up and use your boat, but even that creates questions.
My family have a caravan at Carnforth which puts us an hour closer to the Lakes and is perfect as a staging point, however I have no idea what the etiquette would be dragging a 20 foot trailer with a boat on the back through a caravan holiday park. There isn't room to park it at the caravan itself, could leave it dumped on the reception car park I suppose. I guess its one of those things, whatever we do is going to annoy someone.
Its going to be a steep learning curve for the near future I suspect.
We actually live in the North West, relatively close to the coast but its nigh on impossible to find somewhere local to turn up and just chuck it in the sea.
We are within easy reach of the Lake District which is actually looking like the easiest place to just turn up and use your boat, but even that creates questions.
My family have a caravan at Carnforth which puts us an hour closer to the Lakes and is perfect as a staging point, however I have no idea what the etiquette would be dragging a 20 foot trailer with a boat on the back through a caravan holiday park. There isn't room to park it at the caravan itself, could leave it dumped on the reception car park I suppose. I guess its one of those things, whatever we do is going to annoy someone.
Its going to be a steep learning curve for the near future I suspect.
TONKA2 said:
We have a caravan on Anglesey which is why it will ultimately be living down there but would like to get a feel for it beforehand.
We actually live in the North West, relatively close to the coast but its nigh on impossible to find somewhere local to turn up and just chuck it in the sea.
We are within easy reach of the Lake District which is actually looking like the easiest place to just turn up and use your boat, but even that creates questions.
My family have a caravan at Carnforth which puts us an hour closer to the Lakes and is perfect as a staging point, however I have no idea what the etiquette would be dragging a 20 foot trailer with a boat on the back through a caravan holiday park. There isn't room to park it at the caravan itself, could leave it dumped on the reception car park I suppose. I guess its one of those things, whatever we do is going to annoy someone.
Its going to be a steep learning curve for the near future I suspect.
Caravan park might be a bit uppity but they will be used to towers so worth a word with them, they might let you put it in the maintenance compound for example out of the way and safe or charge you a small fee to put it on a pitch overnight.We actually live in the North West, relatively close to the coast but its nigh on impossible to find somewhere local to turn up and just chuck it in the sea.
We are within easy reach of the Lake District which is actually looking like the easiest place to just turn up and use your boat, but even that creates questions.
My family have a caravan at Carnforth which puts us an hour closer to the Lakes and is perfect as a staging point, however I have no idea what the etiquette would be dragging a 20 foot trailer with a boat on the back through a caravan holiday park. There isn't room to park it at the caravan itself, could leave it dumped on the reception car park I suppose. I guess its one of those things, whatever we do is going to annoy someone.
Its going to be a steep learning curve for the near future I suspect.
Lake District is a good shout but think the speed limits are very low. Good proving ground out of season though and more sheltered in terms of going over the ropes.
Any pictures of your new boat?
I’ve been looking at moorings over this side of the country but I expect the way the tides work here it would severely limit actual time to be able to use the boat.
(I know, in and out twice a day etc but I mean that some moorings spend a lot longer dryer than others in our local harbour….)
Crusoe said:
Worth doing a royal yacht association skipper course so you know the rules and how to use the radio etc.
Looks like a complete waste of nearly £300 for what I want to do.Chart reading is pointless when I want to blat around half a mile from shore on a sunny day. I certainly don't need anyone showing me the basics of a diesel engine, firstly I'm a fully qualified diesel tech and secondly i've got a four stroke petrol outboard!
I looked at doing it almost immediately upon buying the boat, but it does look like a waste of time and money for what I will be doing.
If you can find somewhere you could launch & go to sea with 'no gear & no idea' & no insurance.
Not a good idea but seems to be all too common.
Be better starting off with one of the power boat courses the RYA offer.
For someone with some experience PB2 would be the normal starting point but if you have none at all you might be better with PB1. Contact them & see what they suggest.
www.rya.org.uk/training
Might be worth going on a boating forum where you are likely to get more accurate answers as to what various areas & slips require as regards launch fees, any licence/qualifications (such as PB1/2).
E.g. www.rib.net/forum/
The Lakes are subject to a lot of restrictions, speed limits are in place & they are enforced by the rangers. Look up each of the lakes to see what applies.
www.lakedistrict.gov.uk/visiting/things-to-do/wate...
As for the caravan site you mention just ask them.
Not a good idea but seems to be all too common.
Be better starting off with one of the power boat courses the RYA offer.
For someone with some experience PB2 would be the normal starting point but if you have none at all you might be better with PB1. Contact them & see what they suggest.
www.rya.org.uk/training
Might be worth going on a boating forum where you are likely to get more accurate answers as to what various areas & slips require as regards launch fees, any licence/qualifications (such as PB1/2).
E.g. www.rib.net/forum/
The Lakes are subject to a lot of restrictions, speed limits are in place & they are enforced by the rangers. Look up each of the lakes to see what applies.
www.lakedistrict.gov.uk/visiting/things-to-do/wate...
As for the caravan site you mention just ask them.
TONKA2 said:
I looked at doing it almost immediately upon buying the boat, but it does look like a waste of time and money for what I will be doing
I suppose you could be pragmatic and find out which authority (if any) polices your chosen stretch of water by launching anyway, then seeing what kind of hi-vis official type comes to nick you!I'm an inland boater so I know the ropes for that, but my understanding was that offshore it's winner takes all, gloves off, devil take the hindmost and under the supertanker you go...
TONKA2 said:
Chart reading is pointless when I want to blat around half a mile from shore on a sunny day.
You're blatting along, half a mile from shore on a sunny day, when you see another motorboat doing the same thing in the opposite direction?
If you are meeting head on, which way should you (and they) be turning to avoid? If he turns to cross your path, who is the stand on vessel? If you have to alter course towards shore, how much clear navigable water do you have?
After a bit more blatting, you come across a buoy that looks like a weird robotic wasp (note how close to the shore it is...):
What does it mean? What side of it should you pass? If it's not relevant to you in your Arrowflyte, what does it mean for larger traffic? What information can you draw from the fact that this supposedly stationary object is kicking up a bow wave and leaving a wash?
You blat past the wasp-buoy and notice a sailing yacht crossing in front of you, heading from your left to your right, with a sail up:
Which vessel gives way and which stands on? Steam gives way to sail, right? Or are other factors in play?
These are all matters which can be learnt by simply downloading and digesting the COLREGs without paying the RYA several hundred pounds, if you really don't want to do that. But they are also things that anyone setting out on the water in proximity to other traffic should know, even 'half a mile from the shore'. Especially if they're going to be blatting in something that could do 30knts. The inshore waters are often where the hustle and bustle of traffic, the demands of buoyage, the trouble of shallows, shoals, chop and tides come into play far more than out in the open sea.
As we admired the boats in Palma Nova last month and picked which one we'd go for once the numbers came up, it occurred to me that I'd be the idiot who would probably beach the thing on some rocks within minutes if I did actually get one.
I'd definitely be doing a course if I actually had a boat. I literally don't have the first clue!
I'd definitely be doing a course if I actually had a boat. I literally don't have the first clue!
paintman said:
If you can find somewhere you could launch & go to sea with 'no gear & no idea' & no insurance.
Not a good idea but seems to be all too common.
Ahhh, good old PH. Where, at any point, did I say any of the above:-Not a good idea but seems to be all too common.
No gear- The boat wont be leaving ankle depth without life vests, flares, extra fuel, first aid kit, marine radio or flares. It came with most of them and I'm in no rush to become a statistic.
No idea- The whole point of my post is that I have been struggling to get good information on what I need to do/ fulfill to put the boat on the water safely and legally. Unfortunately as with most things in life, there seems to be a plethora of shysters just looking to part you from your hard earned cash clouding the good information. In my case the RYA course mentioned above would be a total waste for what the boat will be used for. And isn't a legal requirement. I would rather throw the cost of that course at something more relevant to what we will be doing.
No Insurance- For £133 a year only the very very foolish would opt out of that one!
Maybe you missed my point, I just don't particularly want to pay £200 a year to join a local club and £20 to drag it in and out of the water when all I want to do is try it out and get a feel for how it all works before I take it down to Anglesey. I'm more than happy to get myself qualified to a point that will stop me killing myself or others! As 2xChevrons has just succinctly pointed out above, there is a lot to be learned but I don't want to spend half of a course learning to read charts and navigate. It will simply never ever be required.
Some of the other qualifications you have mentioned may be worth looking into. You certainly wont find me hooning around clueless in a football shirt with a can of Stella on the go!
All edits to tidy up spelling and to remove anything that sounded unintentionally arsey. I'm very grateful for any and all input that helps.
Edited by TONKA2 on Monday 18th September 15:06
Edited by TONKA2 on Monday 18th September 15:08
Edited by TONKA2 on Monday 18th September 15:25
Assuming this isn't some kind of wind up... Get some training, you clearly need it. You wouldn't drive a car, ride a bike, fly an aeroplane or anything else without at least a basic level of instruction, no matter how 'irrelevant' you think it will be, by your own admission you haven't a clue about what you are doing. If you can afford to own and run a boat you can afford a few hundred quid to make sure you aren't a hazard to yourself, your guests, and other traffic around you.
TONKA2 said:
Maybe you missed my point, I just don't particularly want to pay £200 a year to join a local club and £20 to drag it in and out of the water when all I want to do is try it out and get a feel for how it all works before I take it down to Anglesey. I'm more than happy to get myself qualified to a point that will stop me killing myself or others! As 2xChevrons has just succinctly pointed out above, there is a lot to be learned but I don't want to spend half of a course learning to read charts and navigate. It will simply never ever be required.
Not quite the takeaway I was aiming for from my post, I'll admit. I was hoping to suggest that there is quite a lot of knowledge and seamanship that is needed even when just 'blatting about half a mile from shore on a sunny day'. I'm also not quite sure where the idea that the RYA course will involve chartwork, navigation and engine maintenance came from. The RYA does offer courses on those, but the PB1 and PB2 courses don't cover those things. PB2 covers boating safety, basic boat handling, berthing/close quarters maneouvering, man-overboard drill, planing, high-speed handling and COLREGs.
The stated ability on completion is "to handle a small powerboat in familiar waters by day" which sounds exactly like the sort of thing you're after - although I appreciate the thread has wandered somewhat from your original question about where to get the boat into the water for a first outing.
The PB Intermediate and Advanced courses get into chartwork, working tides, passage planning, navigation, night pilotage and so on, and the RYA do various courses for engines/mechanics, but PB2 is a perfectly sensible and useful course for newcomers to small motorboats.
cliffords said:
What does the yellow thing mean , why is it there ?
That one got me interested. I don't have a boat btw.
It's a Cardinal Mark - a type of buoy that marks hazards and indicates the safe area/direction of passage. The pattern of the yellow/black parts, the shapes of the top marks and the pattern of the flashing lights at night indicate whether the buoy is North/South/East/West of the hazard, and in turn you should pass to the same direction. That one got me interested. I don't have a boat btw.
That one in the pic is one I am particularly familiar with, it being just off the shore at Gurnard and Cowes on the Isle of Wight. It is a North Cardinal, positioned to the north of the eastern edge of the Gurnard Ledge, a rocky shoal lying just under the surface. So you pass to the north of it, and so long as you keep it to your south as you pass you won't hit the ledge.
cliffords said:
What does the yellow thing mean , why is it there ?
That one got me interested. I don't have a boat btw.
It is a cardinal mark (or bouy) https://www.trinityhouse.co.uk/mariners-informatio...That one got me interested. I don't have a boat btw.
the one above (Gurnard) has two upward pointing triangles on top - which is a north one - so if you pass to the north you don't instantly die.
you can recognise them most simply by the arrangement of the two triangles, but also the order of the yellow / black colours and then the flashing light at night...
this particular one is near Cowes in the Solent - as well as being a warning, they are very useful for navigational purposes as they are known locations in the middle of the water...
back to the OP - your questions are reasonable - and while I agree with the others than a powerboat course is worth doing (if nothing else, it is a lot of fun!) but there is no one right or wrong answer across the UK - so much depends on local conditions established by port authorities / landowners / etc. so it is worth a drive down to Anglesea and popping in to chat with locals to explain what you plan and ask advice - the real answers are always best known by the locals and you will find that Billy over there has a mate called Joey who on a Wednesday will let you launch from here - but on a Thursday you can also borrow the tractor to launch etc.!
and if you are heading onto the water - consider supporting the RNLI with donations they are the ones who will come and get you if it goes wrong and are well worth supporting. I have 40+ years experience on water and a box full of qualifications but am still aware that however prepared you are things can go wrong, and unlike with a car you can't simply park up and walk home...
Hi Tonka.
To try to address some of your concerns.
"Boatlaunch.co.uk" lists several public slipways in the NW. Several are free, others levy a charge. Find them on the map and tap/click the red lollipop for more information.
For example, there are two slips in Maryport. One belongs to the marina and is a bit spendy but the other belongs to the harbour and charges harbour dues at £1.60/metre which is hardly excessive for your boat.
Re: training (as discussed by others) I'm a definite advocate of getting some education, even if it is just buying the handy booklets on COLREGS, rule of the road, buoyage, sound and visual signals &c. They're not expensive and potentially lifesaving.
For context, I've sailed since about the time I learned to walk (over 60 years), I'm a diesel clanky like you and I recently retired from more than two decades in the LifeBoat crew, mostly as a Severn class mechanic. So perhaps you would be justified thinking "yeah,well he would say that" but truthfully a bit of training, even self taught, is essential.
There are other resources online about launch and recovery sites but the one I posted seems accessible and I hope you find it useful.
Cheers; 404.
To try to address some of your concerns.
"Boatlaunch.co.uk" lists several public slipways in the NW. Several are free, others levy a charge. Find them on the map and tap/click the red lollipop for more information.
For example, there are two slips in Maryport. One belongs to the marina and is a bit spendy but the other belongs to the harbour and charges harbour dues at £1.60/metre which is hardly excessive for your boat.
Re: training (as discussed by others) I'm a definite advocate of getting some education, even if it is just buying the handy booklets on COLREGS, rule of the road, buoyage, sound and visual signals &c. They're not expensive and potentially lifesaving.
For context, I've sailed since about the time I learned to walk (over 60 years), I'm a diesel clanky like you and I recently retired from more than two decades in the LifeBoat crew, mostly as a Severn class mechanic. So perhaps you would be justified thinking "yeah,well he would say that" but truthfully a bit of training, even self taught, is essential.
There are other resources online about launch and recovery sites but the one I posted seems accessible and I hope you find it useful.
Cheers; 404.
It sound like you have done a bit of homework , yes insurance , launching fees may apply.
From a safety side , carry a pair of paddles , anchor chain & rope approx 3 times the depth of water you wish to anchor in . Your boat may already have these., just in case you break down some flares.
I have a small boat & launch a lot , a pair of waders is usefull when the water is cold getting the boat on & off the trailer. Buy a clamp for the trailer so its there when you come back .
study the tides as an when you will be able to get back to the slipway. Check with the harbour office if in doubt.
Run the engine before you go for the first trip on muffs or in a large container just to make sure it all runs as it should ie pumping plenty of water .
Check wheel bearings on the trailer & tyres ( carry a spare ) .
Wear your lanyard & enjoy.
From a safety side , carry a pair of paddles , anchor chain & rope approx 3 times the depth of water you wish to anchor in . Your boat may already have these., just in case you break down some flares.
I have a small boat & launch a lot , a pair of waders is usefull when the water is cold getting the boat on & off the trailer. Buy a clamp for the trailer so its there when you come back .
study the tides as an when you will be able to get back to the slipway. Check with the harbour office if in doubt.
Run the engine before you go for the first trip on muffs or in a large container just to make sure it all runs as it should ie pumping plenty of water .
Check wheel bearings on the trailer & tyres ( carry a spare ) .
Wear your lanyard & enjoy.
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