How much of an F16 is original?
Discussion
A lot of news recently about Denmark and others giving F16s to Ukraine. I am surprised the F16 is still flying. The first designs must date back to the early seventies. There is about the same time between now and its first flight as there is between the first flight and biplanes in WWI. But maybe the current F16 and the original only look the same and it has been thoroughly developed since it was first launched. Anyone know?
Skeptisk said:
A lot of news recently about Denmark and others giving F16s to Ukraine. I am surprised the F16 is still flying. The first designs must date back to the early seventies. There is about the same time between now and its first flight as there is between the first flight and biplanes in WWI. But maybe the current F16 and the original only look the same and it has been thoroughly developed since it was first launched. Anyone know?
Some of the European operators are still using upgraded 'A' models. There are loads of different versions (blocks) with different engines (GE or P&W) capabilities and software upgrades. The Viper is still relevant as a solid 4th gen platform - though many are now being replaced by the JSF.The aircraft ear-marked for transfer to Ukraine will have a physical body that's "old" and, depending on flying hours and usage, would have been subjected to an amount of fatigue based off those hours/use. So as part of a Mid-Life Update (called the MLU) carried out in the mid-90's, the airframes were overhauled. Alongside an overhaul to the airframe all the internals such as engines, electronics and sometimes even simple things like valves, pumps etc have been updated to be the equivelent of the USAF Block 50/52 version, which up until a few years ago was the most up to date version of the F-16 (since surpassed).
So whilst the aircraft generally speaking will still look close to the original 1970's version from the outside, on the inside they're very, very modern and still very, very capable.
Here's a link to the MLU programme detailing what was changed from the original 1970's F-16 to the versions Ukraine would be getting from the RDAF/RNIAF etc - https://www.f-16.net/f-16_versions_article2.html
but a very long story short -
New Mission Computer to run all the new hardware
New Radar
New IFF
New HUD
New Cockpit Displays & Display Computers
New Audio/Video Recorder (to view back missions afterwards)
New Cockpit Flight Controls (more buttons on sticks)
New Datalinks
New Electronic Warfare System
New GPS
New Navigation System
New Mapping System
New Weapons
New External Targetting Pods
etc etc etc
So whilst the aircraft generally speaking will still look close to the original 1970's version from the outside, on the inside they're very, very modern and still very, very capable.
Here's a link to the MLU programme detailing what was changed from the original 1970's F-16 to the versions Ukraine would be getting from the RDAF/RNIAF etc - https://www.f-16.net/f-16_versions_article2.html
but a very long story short -
New Mission Computer to run all the new hardware
New Radar
New IFF
New HUD
New Cockpit Displays & Display Computers
New Audio/Video Recorder (to view back missions afterwards)
New Cockpit Flight Controls (more buttons on sticks)
New Datalinks
New Electronic Warfare System
New GPS
New Navigation System
New Mapping System
New Weapons
New External Targetting Pods
etc etc etc
easyhome said:
At Fairford in 2018 (IIRC) I went onboard a MC-130 that the captain said was a 1966 airframe.
Most older C-130's have had new centre and outer wings. A fair bit of the skins and load bearing members will have been changed over the years due to fatigue and corrosion.. Engines will get changed regularly. Control surfaces ,tail and cargo ramp/door and basic fuselage skeleton will likely be original.
eccles said:
easyhome said:
At Fairford in 2018 (IIRC) I went onboard a MC-130 that the captain said was a 1966 airframe.
Most older C-130's have had new centre and outer wings. A fair bit of the skins and load bearing members will have been changed over the years due to fatigue and corrosion.. Engines will get changed regularly. Control surfaces ,tail and cargo ramp/door and basic fuselage skeleton will likely be original.
Skeptisk said:
A lot of news recently about Denmark and others giving F16s to Ukraine. I am surprised the F16 is still flying. The first designs must date back to the early seventies. There is about the same time between now and its first flight as there is between the first flight and biplanes in WWI.
Still flying.....they are still making them!!And your timeline is somewhat out by a considerable margin, as the Wright Brothers made the first flight in 1903, only 11 years before WW1 started, and next year will be the 50th anniversary of the first flight of the F-16 prototype.
The Danish AF received its first F-16A in 1980, and their first batch of 60 odd A's and B's were delivered in the first half of the 1980's. Denmark took delivery of a second smaller follow-on batch of 12 F16's in the late 1980's.
As already mentioned, the ones still flying in Denmark have all been through the mid life update program.
aeropilot said:
Skeptisk said:
A lot of news recently about Denmark and others giving F16s to Ukraine. I am surprised the F16 is still flying. The first designs must date back to the early seventies. There is about the same time between now and its first flight as there is between the first flight and biplanes in WWI.
Still flying.....they are still making them!!And your timeline is somewhat out by a considerable margin, as the Wright Brothers made the first flight in 1903, only 11 years before WW1 started, and next year will be the 50th anniversary of the first flight of the F-16 prototype.
The Danish AF received its first F-16A in 1980, and their first batch of 60 odd A's and B's were delivered in the first half of the 1980's. Denmark took delivery of a second smaller follow-on batch of 12 F16's in the late 1980's.
As already mentioned, the ones still flying in Denmark have all been through the mid life update program.
Skeptisk said:
aeropilot said:
Skeptisk said:
A lot of news recently about Denmark and others giving F16s to Ukraine. I am surprised the F16 is still flying. The first designs must date back to the early seventies. There is about the same time between now and its first flight as there is between the first flight and biplanes in WWI.
Still flying.....they are still making them!!And your timeline is somewhat out by a considerable margin, as the Wright Brothers made the first flight in 1903, only 11 years before WW1 started, and next year will be the 50th anniversary of the first flight of the F-16 prototype.
The Danish AF received its first F-16A in 1980, and their first batch of 60 odd A's and B's were delivered in the first half of the 1980's. Denmark took delivery of a second smaller follow-on batch of 12 F16's in the late 1980's.
As already mentioned, the ones still flying in Denmark have all been through the mid life update program.
Skeptisk said:
aeropilot said:
Skeptisk said:
A lot of news recently about Denmark and others giving F16s to Ukraine. I am surprised the F16 is still flying. The first designs must date back to the early seventies. There is about the same time between now and its first flight as there is between the first flight and biplanes in WWI.
Still flying.....they are still making them!!And your timeline is somewhat out by a considerable margin, as the Wright Brothers made the first flight in 1903, only 11 years before WW1 started, and next year will be the 50th anniversary of the first flight of the F-16 prototype.
The Danish AF received its first F-16A in 1980, and their first batch of 60 odd A's and B's were delivered in the first half of the 1980's. Denmark took delivery of a second smaller follow-on batch of 12 F16's in the late 1980's.
As already mentioned, the ones still flying in Denmark have all been through the mid life update program.
However, costs of development mean its still a player in the worlds airforces. In that 50 years you are talking about, what has flown since, in terms of F-16 types in western countries, since the mid 70's?
Not much.
F-22, F-35, Typhoon, Rafale, Gripen....can't think of anything else?
In the next 50 years, it might be just another 2 or 3 that will fly for the first time, if that many.
Tony1963 said:
I think the OP needs to reread the first post. With Skepticism 
Let me see...Skeptisk said:
There is about the same time between now and its first flight as there is between the first flight and biplanes in WWI.
First (sustained powered) flight: 1903Biplanes in WW1: 1914 (or 1918 depending on which way you look at it)
Difference: 11 or 15 years.
Conclusion: Neither figure is enough timespan to make his point work.
Inference: He meant the first flight of the F16, not the first flight ever.
That was a toughie!
Always amazes me what is still flying these days. Especially in poorer parts of the world.
I remember seeing the cockpit of one of the first test Concordes in a museum somewhere and it looked like the inside of a Lancaster bomber (to my non pilot eyes).
The F16 is still a beautiful looking aircraft and still looks SciFi modern to me despite being 50 years old.
But then I did like the original BattleStar Galactica
I remember seeing the cockpit of one of the first test Concordes in a museum somewhere and it looked like the inside of a Lancaster bomber (to my non pilot eyes).
The F16 is still a beautiful looking aircraft and still looks SciFi modern to me despite being 50 years old.
But then I did like the original BattleStar Galactica
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