1944 Fw190 wreck for resto

[tracer.smart]

Nice project, $600k to get started.

“The substantial wreckage of Fw-190F-8, Wk Nr 581808, was recovered near the town of Priozersk, Russian Karelia, during the Summer of 2019.”

For sale here >

[Hugo Stiglitz]

Fw190F-8 Wk Nr 581808 is a time capsule and is one of the most complete Fw190’s in existence.

Many restorations to fly have started with much less.


The question is why hasn't the person who brought it to the US already done this?

[Jake899]

tracer.smart said:

Priozersk, Russian Karelia,

As the whole world is rightfully watching Russia's current attempt to expand it's borders, there is no such thing as Russian Karelia. It's land stolen from Finland for the audacity of resisting and spanking Russia in the winter war, and for the cheek of having a national border within shelling distance of St Petersburg.
Sadly after taking bright and happy Karelia away from Finland, Russia spent absolutely zero on it's infrastructure, which is why people are still finding almost intact WW2 fighters there.

[Eric Mc]

Lucky for us then - although I doubt there’ll be too many WW2 warbird finds coming out of Russia for the next few years.

[hidetheelephants]

Jake899 said:

tracer.smart said:

Priozersk, Russian Karelia,

As the whole world is rightfully watching Russia's current attempt to expand it's borders, there is no such thing as Russian Karelia. It's land stolen from Finland for the audacity of resisting and spanking Russia in the winter war, and for the cheek of having a national border within shelling distance of St Petersburg.
Sadly after taking bright and happy Karelia away from Finland, Russia spent absolutely zero on it's infrastructure, which is why people are still finding almost intact WW2 fighters there.

I don't think the finns are very interested in having it back, mainly for the infrastructure thing.

[Jake899]

Eric Mc said:

Lucky for us then - although I doubt there’ll be too many WW2 warbird finds coming out of Russia for the next few years.

But they'll be plenty of Sukhoi/Mig wrecks to find in the coming years.

[Jake899]

hidetheelephants said:

I don't think the finns are very interested in having it back, mainly for the infrastructure thing.

I assure you, we still miss it. It's still emotionally our heartland, and the cheerful spirit of the Karelian people was a foil to the rest of us quiet Finns.

Less emotionally, but far more practically, it's the loss of our only port into the North Sea at Petsamo that would be most welcomed back.

[aeropilot]

Eric Mc said:

Lucky for us then - although I doubt there’ll be too many WW2 warbird finds coming out of Russia for the next few years.

Nope, and I think this one was and will likely be the last.

There's just not the people with the interest and the funds to keep restoring these things for too many years, there's already probably more 'projects' available than there is people with the funds to restore them.

Some of the Russian recoveries that came out back in the 90's still haven't been sold/started.

This one could be done and flying in about 7 or 8 years time if one of the two Focke-Wolf specialist restores was given a blank cheque tomorrow.

All it takes is money (about 10 million dollars) to be given to the right people.........

Edited by aeropilot on Monday 28th August 14:37

[Eric Mc]

And the more that are recovered, the less valuable each restored airframe becomes

[Simpo Two]

'On 4 August, whilst being piloted by Alfred Kruppa, this Focke-Wulf was engaged and hit by Soviet Hurricanes. Kruppa bailed-out, landed in the Vuoksi River and did not survive. Fw190F-8 Wk Nr 581808 is a time capsule and is one of the most complete Fw190’s in existence.'

As the pilot bailed out, leaving the plane to crash, I wonder how it stayed so intact. Perhaps it crashed into dense forest which cushioned the impact?

[Pete54]

Can it be restored? Well the airframe data plate can certainly be reused. The majority of the material in the wreck is simply historic scrap, fine for a museum exhibit but of zero use in a flying aircraft. There have been reproduction FW190s built and frankly that is a much more honest approach than a lot of the 'rebuilds' where beyond the data plate virtually none of the airframe is original (and for very good reasons!).

Given that some 21 'proper' replicas have been built the valuation of this airframe is maybe problematic.

[aeropilot]

Pete54 said:

Can it be restored? Well the airframe data plate can certainly be reused. The majority of the material in the wreck is simply historic scrap, fine for a museum exhibit but of zero use in a flying aircraft. There have been reproduction FW190s built and frankly that is a much more honest approach than a lot of the 'rebuilds' where beyond the data plate virtually none of the airframe is original (and for very good reasons!).

Given that some 21 'proper' replicas have been built the valuation of this airframe is maybe problematic.

Except the Flugwerke 'proper' replica's are not quite 'proper' replica's as some deviations from original had to be made, and that's not including the engines of course which are Chinese Ash-82 radial's.
That's why they can't be owned in the UK on a G-reg.

While you may claim its a more honest approach, CAA require provenance, and that means building an exact new build of the original to affix the recovered data plates to, if you want to fly it.
While a large chuck of the airframe structure isn't usable, quite a lot of the hard parts will likely be refurbishable, and at least available as a pattern for a new part.

Its irrelevant though, as no one from the UK will be buying it. In fact I doubt there's more than a couple of people in the world with the interest and bottomless pocket of cash needed that might be a buyer for this to rebuild and as such, that is why the valuation of this project is problematical.

[FourWheelDrift]

Doesn't beat the one found in 1988. After restoration ending in 2010 it's flying in the USA as the only airworthy Fw 190 with an original BMW 801 engine.

[hidetheelephants]

Simpo Two said:

'On 4 August, whilst being piloted by Alfred Kruppa, this Focke-Wulf was engaged and hit by Soviet Hurricanes. Kruppa bailed-out, landed in the Vuoksi River and did not survive. Fw190F-8 Wk Nr 581808 is a time capsule and is one of the most complete Fw190’s in existence.'

As the pilot bailed out, leaving the plane to crash, I wonder how it stayed so intact. Perhaps it crashed into dense forest which cushioned the impact?

Pretty good going, shooting down a FW190 with a Hurricane.

[aeropilot]

FourWheelDrift said:

Doesn't beat the one found in 1988. After restoration ending in 2010 it's flying in the USA as the only airworthy Fw 190 with an original BMW 801 engine.

It hasn't flown for a long while though, after of the death of Paul Allen, and the time it took for his estate to be sorted out, and the whole FHC to be sold off by his sister.

It will soon be joined by another original one though, and with an original BMW radial, as Gosshawk in the USA have almost completed the restoration to flying of the Collings Foundation Fw190A which was recovered from Norway many years ago.

There's a video in this article from earlier this year of it ground running the BMW engine.

https://warbirdsnews.com/warbird-restorations/fock...

[Simpo Two]

hidetheelephants said:

Pretty good going, shooting down a FW190 with a Hurricane.

Two Hurricanes, but yes, either a lucky shot or the size of the fight in the dog.

Given the good condition of the aircraft, he might have done better to stay with it - but that depends if he was still under attack. Bad luck landing in a river though.