Eric 'Winkle" Brown | His Best & Worst Aircraft

Eric 'Winkle" Brown | His Best & Worst Aircraft

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Simpo Two

Original Poster:

87,036 posts

272 months

Tuesday 13th June 2023
quotequote all
Not sure if posted here before, but anyway...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37cG_LcrNhI&ab...


mikeiow

6,207 posts

137 months

Tuesday 13th June 2023
quotequote all
Simpo Two said:
Not sure if posted here before, but anyway...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37cG_LcrNhI&ab...
Will have to watch later.
Went to an evening with him in Derby a few years ago. Took a couple of our more interested Explorer Scouts.
What a phenomenal evening!
He stood up, cracked a joke about how he was getting on, but if he died, we would be in good hands, because his wife was there and knew all the stories….then launched into 2 non-stop hours of story’s of his life.
What a life!
Just an astonishing fella.
Felt privileged to have been there.

Simpo Two

Original Poster:

87,036 posts

272 months

Tuesday 13th June 2023
quotequote all
mikeiow said:
Felt privileged to have been there.
Yep, I saw him at Shuttleworth for one of his lectures and got to shake his paw. Lovely chap, polite and as sharp as a tack.even at 90+.

lufbramatt

5,427 posts

141 months

Wednesday 14th June 2023
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Remember taking my lad to the Fleet air Arm Museum at Yeovilton just after I had read "Wings on my Sleeve". When I saw the Vampire there I told my son about it being the same type as the first jet aircraft that was landed on a carrier. It wasn't until we walked a bit further round that I realized that it was the actual aircraft that had been used in the tests, along with a bust of Captain Eric Brown. Was a lovely moment seeing one of "his" aircraft up close.

Eric Mc

122,854 posts

272 months

Wednesday 14th June 2023
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I went to a talk he gave at the FAST Museum here in Farnborough back in 2010. The topic he was talking on was the display of captured German aircraft that was held at Farnborough late in 1945.


Penguinracer

1,704 posts

213 months

Wednesday 14th June 2023
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I love how brusque he is in his interviews...e.g. the tactical mach number for P38 Lightning meant that is was "useless" relative to its German opponents.

He seemed to be a Test Pilot who judged an aircraft from the perspective of a service pilot's needs.

While some Test Pilots (i.e. Jeffrey Quill) would say the Mk IX spitfire was sweeter handling than the Mk XIV & that it could do two continuous snap rolls to the Griffon model's one and a half...Eric would think about what the service pilot needed - not a spitfire that could turn tighter, as it was already amongst the best in class at that...but one which could climb faster, fly faster & accelerate faster to close the distance to those FW 190's so the pilot could make more of its 13.5 seconds of ammunition count!

Eric Mc

122,854 posts

272 months

Wednesday 14th June 2023
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That was because he was never a COMPANY test pilot. When you read the biographies or other books by the really well known test pilots of the 40s, 50s and 60s, virtually all of them worked for one or more of the manufacturers. You always have to bear that in mind when they wax lyrical about how brilliant their employer's products were. This really kicks in when they are discussing projects that were shelved. Roland Beamont and the TSR2 comes to mind.

Brown was a service test pilot and his work was not to sell the aircraft he was testing but to find out how useful they might be in service or, in the case of German and Japanese aircraft, to evaluate them so that their strengths and weaknesses could be discovered.

Whereas company test pilots were media "stars" pilots like Brown were relatively unknown "in period". It was only when Brown had left the services and started writing about his experiences in the 1970s that people began to appreciate his knowledge and experience.

The other test pilot worth reading is Bill Waterton. He WAS a company test pilot (Gloster) but he tended to be rather honest about the aircraft he was testing. He ended up getting the sack.
His book "The Quick and the Dead" is well worth reading.

Tango13

8,919 posts

183 months

Wednesday 14th June 2023
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Simpo Two

Original Poster:

87,036 posts

272 months

Wednesday 14th June 2023
quotequote all
Eric Mc said:
The other test pilot worth reading is Bill Waterton. He WAS a company test pilot (Gloster) but he tended to be rather honest about the aircraft he was testing. He ended up getting the sack.
Isn't the whole point of a test pilot to be honest? If they just say 'It's fab' you'll hardly end up with good aircraft..!

Penguinracer

1,704 posts

213 months

Wednesday 14th June 2023
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Eric...you've nailed it.
I wouldn't argue with anyone who put Eric as No.1 in the pantheon.

A Service Test Pilot is quite a different animal to a Company Test Pilot.

Of the Company Test Pilots of that era the one who I find interesting but perhaps never achieved Jeffrey Quill's level of fame, was his mentor, Joe "Mutt" Summers.

Then the other Company Test Pilots of the jet age were operating more in the realms of research e.g Chuck Yeager, Neil Armstrong, Joe Walker, Bob White, Joe Engle, & Pete Knight.

The British were more about service aircraft...John Farley, Roland Beamont & John Cockburn

Of the NASA guys Charles Bolden (Co-Pilot STC-61) described "Hoot" Gibson & John Young as the two most naturally gifted pilots he had ever met..something reiterated in Mike Mullane's 2006 book, "Riding Rockets" in which he describes Gibson & Young as perhaps the most gifted "stick & rudder" pilots NASA ever had.

Penguinracer

1,704 posts

213 months

Wednesday 14th June 2023
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...I'll bet Eric & Bob Hoover are up there in the "Officers' Club" in the sky swapping yarns...

Eric Mc

122,854 posts

272 months

Wednesday 14th June 2023
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Simpo Two said:
Eric Mc said:
The other test pilot worth reading is Bill Waterton. He WAS a company test pilot (Gloster) but he tended to be rather honest about the aircraft he was testing. He ended up getting the sack.
Isn't the whole point of a test pilot to be honest? If they just say 'It's fab' you'll hardly end up with good aircraft..!
Yes - they need to be honest to their employers - but not to all and sundry. Waterton was publicly critical of some of the aircraft he tested which did not endear him to management.

After he was fired by Glosters he became an aviation correspondent (when newspapers used to have such a role). However, his reputation in the industry meant that the various companies were unwilling to talk to him. He eventually left the UK and went back to being a company test pilot, this time for Avro Canada.

Mr Dendrite

2,340 posts

217 months

Wednesday 14th June 2023
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Two others who are much lower profile but still very interesting are Des Penrose who has over
300 types on his log book and my late father with over 200.
They were on squadron together in the Canal Zone, went to Empire test pilots school in the early mid fifties. They were still friends in their 90’s up to my father passing away. I think Des is still alive.

Des was experimental test pilot at Farnborough and then at Dehaviland. My father was an operational test pilot, then some civilian and later flight test editor for Flight international.

They missed out on all the wartime stuff but did the whole jet experimental era of the 50s, 60s. Amazing stories but very modest men who never made a big thing of what they’d done.

Edited by Mr Dendrite on Thursday 15th June 12:27