Rips at Bournemouth beach
Discussion
I don't think the news thread is a place to have this discussion given the tragedy 2 days ago so I thought I'd start this one.
People talk about the rip tide in Bournemouth, but it's just a cross current. I've (double 
) checked the tidal flow charts and at peak springs it runs at 1.7kts (when it's running at 2.5kts further out in the Channel), whereas the rip going out of the Solent runs at 4.4 and the Portland race at 7kts! It's a potential problem swimming near the pier but not a massive issue unless you're trying to do an out and back swim along the beach.
But as far as this incident goes it was shortly after low tide and it's nearer neaps than springs.
With rip currents then they've pumped a load of sand onto the beach so it's quite far down the groynes and it's fairly steep at the sea. There also aren't any groynes near the pier. So I don't think there's scope for rip currents particularly given the conditions of 2-3 ft waves.
ETA thinking about it that is where the surf reef is so the beach should be shallower and could have scope for rips. But the waves weren't big, my kids were failing to surf them in Swanage that day.
blueg33 said:
Yertis said:
I don't think anyone said "there are no rips" – we just said we'd never experienced them. I'm quite interested to know what's changed, if anything, that they are now problem.
As I said - they have always been present ) checked the tidal flow charts and at peak springs it runs at 1.7kts (when it's running at 2.5kts further out in the Channel), whereas the rip going out of the Solent runs at 4.4 and the Portland race at 7kts! It's a potential problem swimming near the pier but not a massive issue unless you're trying to do an out and back swim along the beach.But as far as this incident goes it was shortly after low tide and it's nearer neaps than springs.
With rip currents then they've pumped a load of sand onto the beach so it's quite far down the groynes and it's fairly steep at the sea. There also aren't any groynes near the pier. So I don't think there's scope for rip currents particularly given the conditions of 2-3 ft waves.
ETA thinking about it that is where the surf reef is so the beach should be shallower and could have scope for rips. But the waves weren't big, my kids were failing to surf them in Swanage that day.
Edited by Bill on Friday 2nd June 16:24
Thanks, I think! 
I'm hoping Blueg99 will answer as I'm trying to work out whether I have something wrong. I've been coming to Bournemouth for 30+ years, my wife is from there (and trained as a lifeguard back in the day), I know various Bournemouth swimmers and surfers and no one mentions rips unless they mean the cross beach tidal flow.
I'm hoping Blueg99 will answer as I'm trying to work out whether I have something wrong. I've been coming to Bournemouth for 30+ years, my wife is from there (and trained as a lifeguard back in the day), I know various Bournemouth swimmers and surfers and no one mentions rips unless they mean the cross beach tidal flow.
Good post Bill, thanks for making it a separate conversation.
I windsurfed for many years in the area, and swim regularly at Branksome.
There are definitely cross currents in one direction or the other, from Sandbanks all the way round to Milford, but they can vary quite dramatically in strength and direction. I believe that's a combination of the curved coastline and relatively shallow water out to quite a distance off shore. Most of us think of the tide "just" rising and falling in an even "sine wave", but it really doesn't - as the tide flows into/out of the bay it stalls along the coast, backs up and swirls into proper eddies, particularly at the change times... and also around groynes, sandbars and, well, the piers.
As avid watchers of "Saving Lives at Sea" (!), I've sat with my lad on the beach away from the groynes playing "spot the rip"; and they do develop even with quite benign looking waves. But you have to really look for them.
Near the pier, close to low tide, I can well believe a combination of the wrong side of an eddy and a minor rip could have you going out to sea surprisingly quickly. And, as someone did link in the other thread, it has happened before.
For those not familiar with the area, the life guards mark out safe sections and there are plenty of signs telling people to swim "between the flags". On busy days, plenty of folk won't see them or just won't know to look at them if they've just hopped in the car for a day at the beach. On most days, 99.9% of trippers will be absolutely fine outside the flags and will go home none-the-wiser after a lovely day at the seaside...
I windsurfed for many years in the area, and swim regularly at Branksome.
Bill said:
it's just a cross current
I think that over-simplifies things. The tidal/current behaviour of the entire bay is very complex - most clearly evidenced by the famous double-high tides.There are definitely cross currents in one direction or the other, from Sandbanks all the way round to Milford, but they can vary quite dramatically in strength and direction. I believe that's a combination of the curved coastline and relatively shallow water out to quite a distance off shore. Most of us think of the tide "just" rising and falling in an even "sine wave", but it really doesn't - as the tide flows into/out of the bay it stalls along the coast, backs up and swirls into proper eddies, particularly at the change times... and also around groynes, sandbars and, well, the piers.
As avid watchers of "Saving Lives at Sea" (!), I've sat with my lad on the beach away from the groynes playing "spot the rip"; and they do develop even with quite benign looking waves. But you have to really look for them.
Near the pier, close to low tide, I can well believe a combination of the wrong side of an eddy and a minor rip could have you going out to sea surprisingly quickly. And, as someone did link in the other thread, it has happened before.
For those not familiar with the area, the life guards mark out safe sections and there are plenty of signs telling people to swim "between the flags". On busy days, plenty of folk won't see them or just won't know to look at them if they've just hopped in the car for a day at the beach. On most days, 99.9% of trippers will be absolutely fine outside the flags and will go home none-the-wiser after a lovely day at the seaside...
I wonder if the undertow due to a steep drop-off, combined with the arrival of the pleasure boat, might have dragged non-swimmers into deeper water?
Having sailed through many tidal overfalls/races they are not what I would describe as a 'rip'. I guess this a windsurfing/surfing/inshore swimmer description of turbulent waters caused by tidal effect close to shore which can be dangerous to them?
As you say, we are close to neaps and the incident in question, was just after low water, so one wouldn't expect the tidal stream to be that strong.
Having sailed through many tidal overfalls/races they are not what I would describe as a 'rip'. I guess this a windsurfing/surfing/inshore swimmer description of turbulent waters caused by tidal effect close to shore which can be dangerous to them?
As you say, we are close to neaps and the incident in question, was just after low water, so one wouldn't expect the tidal stream to be that strong.
pequod said:
I wonder if the undertow due to a steep drop-off, combined with the arrival of the pleasure boat, might have dragged non-swimmers into deeper water?
Having sailed through many tidal overfalls/races they are not what I would describe as a 'rip'. I guess this a windsurfing/surfing/inshore swimmer description of turbulent waters caused by tidal effect close to shore which can be dangerous to them?
As you say, we are close to neaps and the incident in question, was just after low water, so one wouldn't expect the tidal stream to be that strong.
I think in the context were talking about Rip Tides are the water from waves draining back out to sea and nothing to do with tides as we'd consider it.Having sailed through many tidal overfalls/races they are not what I would describe as a 'rip'. I guess this a windsurfing/surfing/inshore swimmer description of turbulent waters caused by tidal effect close to shore which can be dangerous to them?
As you say, we are close to neaps and the incident in question, was just after low water, so one wouldn't expect the tidal stream to be that strong.
On reflection it's a ludicrous term and I'd love to know how long it's been in use, feels like something a too cool for school surfer made up in the 50s or 60s. Wonder what 18C beach fishermen called 'em? (I haven't googled so I appreciate I may be about to look foolish.)
BikeBikeBIke said:
pequod said:
I wonder if the undertow due to a steep drop-off, combined with the arrival of the pleasure boat, might have dragged non-swimmers into deeper water?
Having sailed through many tidal overfalls/races they are not what I would describe as a 'rip'. I guess this a windsurfing/surfing/inshore swimmer description of turbulent waters caused by tidal effect close to shore which can be dangerous to them?
As you say, we are close to neaps and the incident in question, was just after low water, so one wouldn't expect the tidal stream to be that strong.
I think in the context were talking about Rip Tides are the water from waves draining back out to sea and nothing to do with tides as we'd consider it.Having sailed through many tidal overfalls/races they are not what I would describe as a 'rip'. I guess this a windsurfing/surfing/inshore swimmer description of turbulent waters caused by tidal effect close to shore which can be dangerous to them?
As you say, we are close to neaps and the incident in question, was just after low water, so one wouldn't expect the tidal stream to be that strong.
On reflection it's a ludicrous term and I'd love to know how long it's been in use, feels like something a too cool for school surfer made up in the 50s or 60s. Wonder what 18C beach fishermen called 'em? (I haven't googled so I appreciate I may be about to look foolish.)
Edited by pequod on Friday 2nd June 17:45
Dave2P said:
I think that over-simplifies things. The tidal/current behaviour of the entire bay is very complex - most clearly evidenced by the famous double-high tides.
Fair point, but it does only run one way or the other, it won't drag you out and even at its peak it's not going that quickly unless you're at either end.I've spotted small rips in Swanage and Studland (and elsewhere) but never in Bournemouth. I'll have to look more closely.
Fair points regarding the semantics (and I haven't helped...)
AIUI rip tide is tidal flow through a narrowing that increases its speed and pushes anything in it out to sea.
Rip currents are wave created effect where there are troughs and peaks running up the beach and as the wave recedes more of it falls into the trough creating a stronger out flowing current.
Races (My bad for mentioning one in the OP) and overfalls are fast and/or rough areas of water due to tide flowing over/off a shallower area.
A better example would have been Poole Harbour entrance.
AIUI rip tide is tidal flow through a narrowing that increases its speed and pushes anything in it out to sea.
Rip currents are wave created effect where there are troughs and peaks running up the beach and as the wave recedes more of it falls into the trough creating a stronger out flowing current.
Races (My bad for mentioning one in the OP) and overfalls are fast and/or rough areas of water due to tide flowing over/off a shallower area.
A better example would have been Poole Harbour entrance.
Some good points made by others above
I've windsurfed/surfed all over the UK over the last 40 years including Bournemouth/Poole. I was on a beach not very far away on the day of the tragedies. There was no appreciable surf or waves - typically a prerequisite for a rip to be present.
Bournemouth does have conditions like this on occasion, which is when a rip may occur. But this day wasn't one of them.
What does occur all the time though as already pointed out are the tidal currents - strength and direction of which dependent on where the tide is in its low/high cycle. These typically run along the coast rather than in and out.
I've windsurfed/surfed all over the UK over the last 40 years including Bournemouth/Poole. I was on a beach not very far away on the day of the tragedies. There was no appreciable surf or waves - typically a prerequisite for a rip to be present.
Bournemouth does have conditions like this on occasion, which is when a rip may occur. But this day wasn't one of them.
What does occur all the time though as already pointed out are the tidal currents - strength and direction of which dependent on where the tide is in its low/high cycle. These typically run along the coast rather than in and out.
jamie w said:
Some good points made by others above
I've windsurfed/surfed all over the UK over the last 40 years including Bournemouth/Poole. I was on a beach not very far away on the day of the tragedies. There was no appreciable surf or waves - typically a prerequisite for a rip to be present.
Bournemouth does have conditions like this on occasion, which is when a rip may occur. But this day wasn't one of them.
What does occur all the time though as already pointed out are the tidal currents - strength and direction of which dependent on where the tide is in its low/high cycle. These typically run along the coast rather than in and out.
Hi Jamie, does the name Dawkins mean anything to you?I've windsurfed/surfed all over the UK over the last 40 years including Bournemouth/Poole. I was on a beach not very far away on the day of the tragedies. There was no appreciable surf or waves - typically a prerequisite for a rip to be present.
Bournemouth does have conditions like this on occasion, which is when a rip may occur. But this day wasn't one of them.
What does occur all the time though as already pointed out are the tidal currents - strength and direction of which dependent on where the tide is in its low/high cycle. These typically run along the coast rather than in and out.
I would still suggest an undertow is more dangerous for inexperienced bathers!
pequod said:
jamie w said:
Some good points made by others above
I've windsurfed/surfed all over the UK over the last 40 years including Bournemouth/Poole. I was on a beach not very far away on the day of the tragedies. There was no appreciable surf or waves - typically a prerequisite for a rip to be present.
Bournemouth does have conditions like this on occasion, which is when a rip may occur. But this day wasn't one of them.
What does occur all the time though as already pointed out are the tidal currents - strength and direction of which dependent on where the tide is in its low/high cycle. These typically run along the coast rather than in and out.
Hi Jamie, does the name Dawkins mean anything to you?I've windsurfed/surfed all over the UK over the last 40 years including Bournemouth/Poole. I was on a beach not very far away on the day of the tragedies. There was no appreciable surf or waves - typically a prerequisite for a rip to be present.
Bournemouth does have conditions like this on occasion, which is when a rip may occur. But this day wasn't one of them.
What does occur all the time though as already pointed out are the tidal currents - strength and direction of which dependent on where the tide is in its low/high cycle. These typically run along the coast rather than in and out.
I would still suggest an undertow is more dangerous for inexperienced bathers!
Good point on the danger of undertow, although again typically dependent on some reasonable size surf/waves being around before it comes into play around Bournemouth and becomes something that can drag someone out far enough to cause panic and problems. And of course if they don't panic too much, the next sizeable wave can be used to body surf back in on...
jamie w said:
Good point on the danger of undertow, although again typically dependent on some reasonable size surf/waves being around before it comes into play around Bournemouth and becomes something that can drag someone out far enough to cause panic and problems. And of course if they don't panic too much, the next sizeable wave can be used to body surf back in on...
A bunch of youngsters, unused to swimming, swept outwith their depth, would get into trouble even with a moderate wave, wouldn't you say? And an undertow is not usual along a steep beach, such as Bournemouth.Any physical structure built out into the sea, can create a 'swirl' effect downstream of a tidal flow when passing through or around it, and it's quite possibly why experienced swimmers stay away from Piers, etc., particularly at certain states of the tide?
dudleybloke said:
How deep is the water there at that tide state?
The end of the pier is in less than 3m at lowest low tide.It's a pretty gently shelving beach with no great underwater features until you get to Poole Entrance or Christchurch Ledge.
https://www.visitmyharbour.com/harbours/channel-we...
It's a pretty dull place where hundreds of thousands of pretty dull tourists get in the sea every year.
The place you'd expect trouble is Studland, with fast tide out of the harbour kicking around the headland, and lots of cokeheads in powerboats.
Hey my Mum and Dad were naturists there, in the ‘50s and ’60s.
Yes I was thinking of the seaweed but primarily the amount of plop from the boats. It is (or was) even worse at Lulworth Cove. Dodge the loo paper
I know I’ll sound like a grumpy old git - which I am - but that whole area is pretty grotty compared to how it was when we wuz young.
Yes I was thinking of the seaweed but primarily the amount of plop from the boats. It is (or was) even worse at Lulworth Cove. Dodge the loo paper
I know I’ll sound like a grumpy old git - which I am - but that whole area is pretty grotty compared to how it was when we wuz young.
Gassing Station | Boats, Planes & Trains | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff