Should I get my PPL?
Discussion
I have recently become OBSESSED with flying vids, especially the multi prop engine / jet variants. I enjoy all the pre flight planning, interactions with ATC but in the main all the buttons that get pressed 
I have flown a bit when I was in my teens (ATC) and loved it. Got to do some TO/landings, touch and go’s, aerobatics etc
I’m at an age where settled in job (no extra training on the horizon), have a 2 and a 5 yo who are pretty settled with their routines, a few hours spare a week and importantly disposable income that would allow me to get it done (based upon online estimates of about 9-10k)
The reason I’m coming to a forum to ask the question is just to get a head check. I can afford the 10k to do PPL but will it be enough to get some flying enjoyment or is it a case of needed (wanting) to keep going through extra exams and certs (so not restricted by times / weather conditions)? How realistic is it do do this if it’s the case with a young family and other commitments?
I’m in my late 30’s, if I got a wiggle on and get sorted in next couple of years is there any remote chance of becoming employed in the aviation field? I fear I’ll do it, really enjoy it and then end up feeling like I missed a trick not doing earlier and pursuing a career when I was young and with less commitments!
Im Halifax based so would welcome some recommendations of good locations / instructors
I have flown a bit when I was in my teens (ATC) and loved it. Got to do some TO/landings, touch and go’s, aerobatics etc
I’m at an age where settled in job (no extra training on the horizon), have a 2 and a 5 yo who are pretty settled with their routines, a few hours spare a week and importantly disposable income that would allow me to get it done (based upon online estimates of about 9-10k)
The reason I’m coming to a forum to ask the question is just to get a head check. I can afford the 10k to do PPL but will it be enough to get some flying enjoyment or is it a case of needed (wanting) to keep going through extra exams and certs (so not restricted by times / weather conditions)? How realistic is it do do this if it’s the case with a young family and other commitments?
I’m in my late 30’s, if I got a wiggle on and get sorted in next couple of years is there any remote chance of becoming employed in the aviation field? I fear I’ll do it, really enjoy it and then end up feeling like I missed a trick not doing earlier and pursuing a career when I was young and with less commitments!
Im Halifax based so would welcome some recommendations of good locations / instructors
Edited by oxnop on Friday 5th May 21:33
I started flying in my 30’s gliding, then did PPL , silver C qualification gave you exemption for PPL.
I think I missed out on a lot of the fun, and experience, by this route.
Go for it you will enjoy it, a lot of satisfaction when you get the crappy bit of card from the CAA.
Further studies? The name of the game is being current, flying in IMC conditions are not for pilots who do not fly regularly. I have seen much better pilots than me get it wrong and hit cumulus granite. I flew for a para club and my flying was at its best, sometimes 20 hours in a week and it gives you time, not at your expense, to fine tune all the aspects of your flying. I once flew as passenger who only did five hours every thirteen months, frightening I considered kissing the ground when I got out. Everything was OK but I dread to think what would have happened in an emergency.
Commercial? You are married with kids, split shifts, night shift, early starts possibly away from home. What happens if the route you are on is cancelled and they want you to move to another airfield, move house, kids schools etc.
Don’t get me wrong I loved flying and it is a great occupation but there are drawbacks which only you can decide which route to go. Good luck whatever you choose.
I think I missed out on a lot of the fun, and experience, by this route.
Go for it you will enjoy it, a lot of satisfaction when you get the crappy bit of card from the CAA.
Further studies? The name of the game is being current, flying in IMC conditions are not for pilots who do not fly regularly. I have seen much better pilots than me get it wrong and hit cumulus granite. I flew for a para club and my flying was at its best, sometimes 20 hours in a week and it gives you time, not at your expense, to fine tune all the aspects of your flying. I once flew as passenger who only did five hours every thirteen months, frightening I considered kissing the ground when I got out. Everything was OK but I dread to think what would have happened in an emergency.
Commercial? You are married with kids, split shifts, night shift, early starts possibly away from home. What happens if the route you are on is cancelled and they want you to move to another airfield, move house, kids schools etc.
Don’t get me wrong I loved flying and it is a great occupation but there are drawbacks which only you can decide which route to go. Good luck whatever you choose.
Yes, you absolutely should learn how to fly. The younger you are when you start the easier it is.
The only real money in the flying game is in airlines and corporate aviation - everywhere else you are competing with people who will fly for (almost or actually) nothing.
Learn to fly, buy a share in a low-cost aeroplane, you will wonder why you didn’t do it sooner.
The only real money in the flying game is in airlines and corporate aviation - everywhere else you are competing with people who will fly for (almost or actually) nothing.
Learn to fly, buy a share in a low-cost aeroplane, you will wonder why you didn’t do it sooner.
oxnop said:
I’m in my late 30’s, if I got a wiggle on and get sorted in next couple of years is there any remote chance of becoming employed in the aviation field? I fear I’ll do it, really enjoy it and then end up feeling like I missed a trick not doing earlier and pursuing a career when I was young and with less commitments!
Im Halifax based so would welcome some recommendations of good locations / instructors
It’s a very competitive career. You’re also competing against very experienced pilots leaving the military and people who are already airline pilots but have been made redundant from other airlines closing down.Im Halifax based so would welcome some recommendations of good locations / instructors
You will need a lot more than a PPL to become and airline pilot. For the ATPL and all the additional ratings that you need (IMC, night, multi engine, gas turbine) it would cost in excess of £80,000 and that price was over 10 years ago. Talking to a pilot I know, the biggest problem is airlines require xxxx amount of flying hours experience and when it costs £150 per hour to fly in a Cessna 152, that soon adds up to a lot of money.
Then once you do have a pilots license you need to do x amount of flying every year to keep it current or it expires. I’ve heard of Boeing 767 pilots getting made redundant and end up working in a supermarket stacking shelves just to have enough money to keep their licence and ratings in date, while they try find another airline.
I only know of 1 person who went from PPL to airline pilot, but he literally spent every penny he got on lessons, ratings and building hours. It wouldn’t surprise me if he’s made a financial loss.
When you said you’re from Halifax. Have you looked at the flying school at Leeds Bradford Airport?
TLDR: While it’s theoretically possible to go from PPL to airline pilot, it’s a long shot that’s going to cost over £80,000 and not guaranteed.
Edited by Mr Miata on Friday 5th May 21:08
this is my username said:
Yes, you absolutely should learn how to fly. The younger you are when you start the easier it is.
The only real money in the flying game is in airlines and corporate aviation - everywhere else you are competing with people who will fly for (almost or actually) nothing.
Learn to fly, buy a share in a low-cost aeroplane, you will wonder why you didn’t do it sooner.
I thought the idea of doing anything other than paying £200ph + fuel renting a school plane was out of the question. Just had a look at some plane share sale sites and it’s actually not unreasonable to achieve £120ph inc fuel (appreciate you have to drop 5-10k up front but imaging a big % of that is recoverable if you want to exit) - so thanks for that The only real money in the flying game is in airlines and corporate aviation - everywhere else you are competing with people who will fly for (almost or actually) nothing.
Learn to fly, buy a share in a low-cost aeroplane, you will wonder why you didn’t do it sooner.
Mr Miata said:
oxnop said:
I’m in my late 30’s, if I got a wiggle on and get sorted in next couple of years is there any remote chance of becoming employed in the aviation field? I fear I’ll do it, really enjoy it and then end up feeling like I missed a trick not doing earlier and pursuing a career when I was young and with less commitments!
Im Halifax based so would welcome some recommendations of good locations / instructors
It’s a very competitive career. You’re also competing against very experienced pilots leaving the military and people who are already airline pilots but have been made redundant from other airlines closing down.Im Halifax based so would welcome some recommendations of good locations / instructors
You will need a lot more than a PPL to become and airline pilot. For the ATPL and all the additional ratings that you need (IMC, night, multi engine, gas turbine) it would cost in excess of £80,000 and that price was over 10 years ago. Talking to a pilot I know, the biggest problem is airlines require xxxx amount of flying hours experience and when it costs £150 per hour to fly in a Cessna 152, that soon adds up to a lot of money. No
Then once you do have a pilots license you need to do x amount of flying every year to keep it current or it expires. I’ve heard of Boeing 767 pilots getting made redundant and end up working in a supermarket stacking shelves just to have enough money to keep their licence and ratings in date, while they try find another airline.
I only know of 1 person who went from PPL to airline pilot, but he literally spent every penny he got on lessons, ratings and building hours. It wouldn’t surprise me if he’s made a financial loss.
When you said you’re from Halifax. Have you looked at the flying school at Leeds Bradford Airport?
TLDR: While it’s theoretically possible to go from PPL to airline pilot, it’s a long shot that’s going to cost over £80,000 and not guaranteed.
Edited by Mr Miata on Friday 5th May 21:08
My neighbour is a retired pilot whose last ‘job’ was a 30yr career working for a ‘uk’ (non dom) billionaire as his jet pilot (based at leeds Bradford). He said he wouldn’t want to get into it now and listening to his stories around working hours and expectations of the owner made my HR jump up. His son is ex BA captain and spent last 10yrs working as a pilot for a HNW family in Singapore…. covid pretty much stopped that job for him. He isn’t flying at moment. So think very small chance of doing anything that gets anywhere near my current employed salary, when there is experience out there like this in the market.
You might wonder why I’m asking a forum all this when I literally have a resource next door. As I said above I’ve ‘recently’ become obsessed. So recently that I’ve never really been too bothered about speaking about flying with them, plus I want to get some views from a mix. I have found ‘long career’ pilots sometimes to be very blinkered and paint a picture of flying exactly as they want you to perceive them.
Thanks for all the input so far. As it stands I’m about 90% sure I’ll be making a phone call in the next few weeks (when I’ve told the wife) to get something set up.
I would still appreciate any views on where to go to do it. Looks like I have a few options within about 45mins from where I am.
Edited by oxnop on Friday 5th May 21:36
I'd encourage anyone to get their PPL. The process of learning to fly is great fun as well because you spend pretty much all of the time in the air actually flying the aircraft.
I fly from Perth airport, so the largest GA airfield in Scotland and a centre for flying training for GA / Microlight / Gyrocopter and Helicopter pilots.
The only thing I've seen over the years is a large number of students who have gone down the full PPL route without really thinking honestly about the type of flying they are likely to do once qualified and how often they are realistically going to do it. Most folk end up, like myself, flying for fun. Unless money is no object then the cheaper it is the more fun it can be because the more often you can do it. Pre-covid I was probably flying around 100hrs/year on average but that was by doing it as almost a main hobby. It's not unusual for folk to only manage a couple of hrs every month at which point it becomes a fairly expensive way to qualify to do something fairly infrequently. Having headed off at a tangent a few years ago and gone for my PPL(H) I've got that very expensive t-shirt.
Best advice I'd offer is to suggest that before you commit to your PPL, take a look at modern, 3-axis Microlights. Look at the difference in the cost of training between a PPL and an NPPL and the cost differences between the two once you qualify in terms of ownership / hire / availability etc.
Obviously if you are committed to flying through the clouds to Europe with twin engines and 3 passengers then there's only one route to go down but if the intention is flying for fun then there's more than one way to skin a cat.
I fly from Perth airport, so the largest GA airfield in Scotland and a centre for flying training for GA / Microlight / Gyrocopter and Helicopter pilots.
The only thing I've seen over the years is a large number of students who have gone down the full PPL route without really thinking honestly about the type of flying they are likely to do once qualified and how often they are realistically going to do it. Most folk end up, like myself, flying for fun. Unless money is no object then the cheaper it is the more fun it can be because the more often you can do it. Pre-covid I was probably flying around 100hrs/year on average but that was by doing it as almost a main hobby. It's not unusual for folk to only manage a couple of hrs every month at which point it becomes a fairly expensive way to qualify to do something fairly infrequently. Having headed off at a tangent a few years ago and gone for my PPL(H) I've got that very expensive t-shirt.
Best advice I'd offer is to suggest that before you commit to your PPL, take a look at modern, 3-axis Microlights. Look at the difference in the cost of training between a PPL and an NPPL and the cost differences between the two once you qualify in terms of ownership / hire / availability etc.
Obviously if you are committed to flying through the clouds to Europe with twin engines and 3 passengers then there's only one route to go down but if the intention is flying for fun then there's more than one way to skin a cat.
I'll just add my voice to the growing chorus of "go for it".
I started learning last year – at 58 – and it has been a brilliant and rewarding experience. Currently I'm 45 hours and three out of six exams in. The exams have been the hardest part since I haven't had to sit down and learn anything as such for almost 40 years.
Like you, I'm keen to do multi-engine but that'll be a long way in the future. First objective is my basic PPL which I should complete by September (I only fly once a week). That will allow me to fly VFR only, single engine, non-complex aircraft (Cessna 172, Piper Cherokee, that sort of thing). Not sure how different the process is in the UK, but that's probably what £10k will get you.
After that I'll go for high performance and complex endorsements, which are relatively straightforward. Then an instrument rating, which is anything but straightforward. Three commercial level exams plus another 50 hours of training. That will easily double the cost of the basic PPL.
Next step after that would be CPL, which needs 200 hours (total), so will double what's already been spent. For me that would be getting up to nz$75k in all, but would include multi-engine (not sure about turbine though). The basic CPL will allow you to do things like scenic flights, banner towing and cargo flights, depending on the aircraft types you're rated for ... not sexy, but work.
Since this is a retirement gig for me I have no intention of going as far as CPL, and am already questioning whether I really want to do the instrument rating. Particularly since it turns out the one thing I want to do can probably be achieved without that rating.
Anyway, go for a few lessons and see how you get on. You'll know soon enough whether you want to carry on, and probably have a better idea of how far you'll want to take it.
k
oxnop said:
I thought the idea of doing anything other than paying £200ph + fuel renting a school plane was out of the question. Just had a look at some plane share sale sites and it’s actually not unreasonable to achieve £120ph inc fuel (appreciate you have to drop 5-10k up front but imaging a big % of that is recoverable if you want to exit) - so thanks for that
Where I'm based there are a number of shares available for £3k to £5k capital, £50 to £80 per month and £50 to £100 per flying hour. If you are lucky you will also buy in to a group of flying buddies who you can share trips (and costs) with and may be able to mentor you. They are often advertised on the noticeboard in the clubhouse rather than online.Here are some examples at a local airfield:
https://152group.org/shares-for-sale/
https://skyhawkgroup.co.uk/shares.htm
You will generally get lower costs with aircraft operating on a Permit To Fly rather than a CofA.
http://www.hampshireflyinggroup.co.uk/
Edited by this is my username on Saturday 6th May 08:18
Edited by this is my username on Saturday 6th May 08:21
Yes do it! Not sure what schools are close but sherburn is a great airfield,
As for exams use mark Watkins he is absolutely brilliant with ground school! He’s based in Sheffield but does go to airfields too, he does a lot at gamston
Best thing you willl ever do I fly helicopters and it’s just amazing, I flew down to the wash a few weeks back to the aviation medical examiner and landed in the doctors garden!
Great fun!
As for exams use mark Watkins he is absolutely brilliant with ground school! He’s based in Sheffield but does go to airfields too, he does a lot at gamston
Best thing you willl ever do I fly helicopters and it’s just amazing, I flew down to the wash a few weeks back to the aviation medical examiner and landed in the doctors garden!
Great fun!
this is my username said:
Where I'm based there are a number of shares available for £3k to £5k capital, £50 to £80 per month and £50 to £100 per flying hour. If you are lucky you will also buy in to a group of flying buddies who you can share trips (and costs) with and may be able to mentor you. They are often advertised on the noticeboard in the clubhouse rather than online.
Finding a group that's right for you will be key to enjoying co-ownershipAs treasurer of our flying group, I worked on the basis that a light aircraft has to be flying 200 hours a year to be cost-effective against renting (of course, there are also non-financial advantages like availability, condition, standard of maintenance)
So five people averaging 40 hours a year is about right. Be aware that the longer someone is a group member, the less often they are likely to fly, someone may start at 40 hours a year then go down to around 20 within a couple of years. There may also be hours-builders (who don't always declare that when joining a group) and people who want to take the plane away for a week at a time on business, so equitable group rules are really important
I don't think I would join a group with 10 or more sharing a single aircraft, even if that brings down the initial and monthly costs
Every time I see one of these threads I always reply the same. I’m RAF aircrew not pilot but flew for a career.
It’s not how much it costs to get your licence. It’s the upkeep afterwards.
As one of my old capstans used to say. There is a big difference between current and competent. Current is likely to get you killed. Competent keeps you alive. There is a big financial and time cost to competent.
So think of it this way. It’s a long term financial commitment to keep you and your passengers (family perhaps) safe. Because if it goes wrong up there you only have yourself to rely on.
What kind of personality are you. Are you calm under pressure. Are you meticulous at following procedures and processes.
If you’re only going VFR qualified then the UK weather can be very fickle to say the least.
Before everybody on here berates me for being negative I’m just trying to point out the realities.
I’m not trying to dissuade you. Far from it. It can be very rewarding, I wish I had completed my PPL(H) but ultimately I couldn’t justify the cost unless I was going to make it a career of it and there just isn’t the call for helicopter pilots in the uk.
It’s not how much it costs to get your licence. It’s the upkeep afterwards.
As one of my old capstans used to say. There is a big difference between current and competent. Current is likely to get you killed. Competent keeps you alive. There is a big financial and time cost to competent.
So think of it this way. It’s a long term financial commitment to keep you and your passengers (family perhaps) safe. Because if it goes wrong up there you only have yourself to rely on.
What kind of personality are you. Are you calm under pressure. Are you meticulous at following procedures and processes.
If you’re only going VFR qualified then the UK weather can be very fickle to say the least.
Before everybody on here berates me for being negative I’m just trying to point out the realities.
I’m not trying to dissuade you. Far from it. It can be very rewarding, I wish I had completed my PPL(H) but ultimately I couldn’t justify the cost unless I was going to make it a career of it and there just isn’t the call for helicopter pilots in the uk.
I fly for a living.
As someone has mentioned, take a look at the ultralight route. You should be able to do it more cost effectively. It’s pretty straightforward to convert the qualification to a full PPL and beyond if that’s what you want to do. Google is your friend.
As someone has mentioned, take a look at the ultralight route. You should be able to do it more cost effectively. It’s pretty straightforward to convert the qualification to a full PPL and beyond if that’s what you want to do. Google is your friend.
Edited by JW911 on Saturday 6th May 10:21
You can take 'trial lessons' in a variety of aircraft to see what you want to fly before going ahead - they are usually at a discounted rate.
Although most of my hours are in plain 4 seater propeller planes, I've also tried out various 2 seat enclosed microlight type aircraft.
For flying post PPL, a group is the way to go.
I was lucky to get a share in a group of 10+ owners that was under £3k for the share. Because people flew at different times/days availability was good. Monthly costs were around £100 and it was under £100 per hour, but based on cruising revs so it cost you less on shorter trips.
There are various groups available in both ordinary planes and ultralights.
For the extra ratings, I had both night and instrument. They were good, but of limited use due to most airfields in the UK closing at dark and no radar coverage for instrument flying where I lived.
Definity go ahead and have some trial lessons to see how you like different types. You can then decide if you want to go commercial, or stick with recreational flying/
Although most of my hours are in plain 4 seater propeller planes, I've also tried out various 2 seat enclosed microlight type aircraft.
For flying post PPL, a group is the way to go.
I was lucky to get a share in a group of 10+ owners that was under £3k for the share. Because people flew at different times/days availability was good. Monthly costs were around £100 and it was under £100 per hour, but based on cruising revs so it cost you less on shorter trips.
There are various groups available in both ordinary planes and ultralights.
For the extra ratings, I had both night and instrument. They were good, but of limited use due to most airfields in the UK closing at dark and no radar coverage for instrument flying where I lived.
Definity go ahead and have some trial lessons to see how you like different types. You can then decide if you want to go commercial, or stick with recreational flying/
Edited by Whataguy on Saturday 6th May 13:41
As people have said go and have a trail lesson.
I was a captain with a major UK airline for 30 years, I lost my medical at 50. Fortunately they had a good level of income protection insurance, most airlines now have very little. I have had a great time flying professionally , but I would struggle to recommend it to someone in your position.
Flying privately within a group would be a great way to go.
A good friend of mine has retired from airline flying, he now instructs from Barton three days a week. He is a great chap with fantastic enthusiasm, if you would like his name please PM me.
All the best and good luck
I was a captain with a major UK airline for 30 years, I lost my medical at 50. Fortunately they had a good level of income protection insurance, most airlines now have very little. I have had a great time flying professionally , but I would struggle to recommend it to someone in your position.
Flying privately within a group would be a great way to go.
A good friend of mine has retired from airline flying, he now instructs from Barton three days a week. He is a great chap with fantastic enthusiasm, if you would like his name please PM me.
All the best and good luck
u-boat said:
I’m also a captain with a major U.K. airline and disagree entirely.
I still love my job and the fantastic work life balance it gives. The new pilots I fly with are also happy, it’s a fantastic working environment to be in. Obviously the airline you work for makes a huge difference as to how happy the pilots are though.
I’d recommend it as a career to my kids and the OP even at 30. We have plenty of pilots who come into flying as a second career.
I think if you do a ppl you might feel like that’s not enough and you want to take it further. That’s great but the route you take needs to be carefully considered. U.K. airlines are slowly starting sponsoring pilots again first with mpl schemes which now are a free route into an airline for at least one U.K. airline anyway.
The MPL scheme you mention had 6800 applications for circa 12 places.I still love my job and the fantastic work life balance it gives. The new pilots I fly with are also happy, it’s a fantastic working environment to be in. Obviously the airline you work for makes a huge difference as to how happy the pilots are though.
I’d recommend it as a career to my kids and the OP even at 30. We have plenty of pilots who come into flying as a second career.
I think if you do a ppl you might feel like that’s not enough and you want to take it further. That’s great but the route you take needs to be carefully considered. U.K. airlines are slowly starting sponsoring pilots again first with mpl schemes which now are a free route into an airline for at least one U.K. airline anyway.
I agree u-boat certainly in the uk the military flying training program is a complete mess and isn’t churning out anything like the numbers it should for the cost of it.
Also a lot of military pilots got burnt badly during covid as the airlines just sacked everybody.
Unsurprisingly with the poor training numbers the RAF was more than happy to have most of them back flying for the military again. A lot I have spoken to have since gone no thanks I’ll stick in the raf. The grass as they found out isn’t always greener.
So perhaps you’re right, there might be more sponsored training places coming in the future. One problem I foresee though is that while people are prepared to fund their own flight training for the love/prestige of being a pilot then the airlines aren’t going to fund it.
There are enough people with rich parents, second career people that can afford to fund the £80-100k to get you to atpl status. The airlines aren’t going to pay unless they have to.
Also a lot of military pilots got burnt badly during covid as the airlines just sacked everybody.
Unsurprisingly with the poor training numbers the RAF was more than happy to have most of them back flying for the military again. A lot I have spoken to have since gone no thanks I’ll stick in the raf. The grass as they found out isn’t always greener.
So perhaps you’re right, there might be more sponsored training places coming in the future. One problem I foresee though is that while people are prepared to fund their own flight training for the love/prestige of being a pilot then the airlines aren’t going to fund it.
There are enough people with rich parents, second career people that can afford to fund the £80-100k to get you to atpl status. The airlines aren’t going to pay unless they have to.
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