Buying an expensive boat

[LimaDelta]

Suppose you were in the lucky position to be buying a boat. For argument's sake in the 100k - 1M sort of ballpark. What sort of services would you consider using to help you with your purchase? Obviously if it was a house you would be expected to carry out some sort of survey, even if not borrowing the money, for your own peace of mind. How would you approach such a purchase. How would it differ to buying a car of a similar value?

[AndrewCrown]

Lima… there is a process… depending on value,.. but I’d do it for anything over the most basic of craft.

Offer subject to Survey

Survey to determine ‘jobs’ to be done and general sea worthiness.. Also value for insurance

Sea Trial.. preferably with a surveyor

Modify offer etc..

https://uk.boats.com/boat-sellers-guide/boat-surve...

[OutInTheShed]

At the top end, you might be talking to brokers who would seek boats which are not actually 'on the market'.
Otherwise, brokers list boats for sale a bit like estate agents.
Brokers charge a fair bit, but tend to be pro-active in making sales happen.
A buyer will (generally) get a survey done, brokers will often help co-ordinate the work needed as a result of that.
Brokers also handle the money and contracts so for many transactions you don't need a solicitor.

Surveyors will not only find defects with the boat but may supervise repairs.

Alternatively, one lets it be known in the Club that one is in the market.
Word gets out that someone is having a new boat built, someone will agree to buy the old one after the port has gone around the table.

[Nomme de Plum]

That's a big range in price.

Yachts are clearly different to power vessels.

Age is also a major consideration.

Service record

So generally a surveyor and in the case of a power vessel i would suggest a marine engineer.

Sea trial is essential.

I would always recommend taking an owner of something similar if you have any with your friendship group.

There are also class associations which are worth a look especially the forums.

Do some research on running costs including marina berthing too. Hamble and the South coast are way more expensive than the East coast. Obviously swinging moorings are cheaper.

Edited by Nomme de Plum on Thursday 27th April 14:27

[Simpo Two]

I'd want to have some idea of the boat type and budget before moving onto 'How do I buy one?'.

'Expensive' is a relative term; my boat would be expensive at £80K but a Sunseeker could be cheap at £1M.

[LimaDelta]

Just to clarify, I'm not looking at buying, more interested in how someone with over 20 years of experience in the Superyacht industry (i.e. me) might be able to assist buyers at the lower end of the market. Obviously, things are done a little bit differently at that scale but ultimately a boat is a boat.

[Jaguar steve]

LimaDelta said:

Just to clarify, I'm not looking at buying, more interested in how someone with over 20 years of experience in the Superyacht industry (i.e. me) might be able to assist buyers at the lower end of the market. Obviously, things are done a little bit differently at that scale but ultimately a boat is a boat.

A boat isn't just a boat though and the right answer isn't just throwing a heap of money at one. If you were assisting buyers in a consultancy role then the first and most important thing is to determine what they actually want to use the boat for and how competent they are and what crew they can rely on.

A big ticket floating caravan loaded with gadgets and air con and ice makers for example might look good to any Romford Navy Commander whilst he's vigorously polishing it in the marina or posing at anchor in full view of the yacht club balcony but that's the absolute last thing anybody needs if they're wanting to either do some serious round the world type sailing or exploring shallow creeks and rivers.

[LimaDelta]

^^^ It's not up to me to decide how people spend their money. After all, how many supercars or aeroplanes are justifiable, sensible, or the correct decision?

I'm currently just weighing up options for a second income stream (side hustle I believe the kids are calling it), and thought leveraging my experience would be a good place to start. Just not sure exactly what that will look like yet.

[OutInTheShed]

I am a little unsure how someone with 20 years experience 'in the superyacht industry' is going to learn much about 'expensive boat buyers' from a few anonymous randoms in a small corner of a car-focussed forum?

I've had some experience of boats and the marine industry , as have some others one here, but I'm not really sure what the OP wants or expects from us?

[LimaDelta]

OutInTheShed said:

I am a little unsure how someone with 20 years experience 'in the superyacht industry' is going to learn much about 'expensive boat buyers' from a few anonymous randoms in a small corner of a car-focussed forum?

I've had some experience of boats and the marine industry , as have some others one here, but I'm not really sure what the OP wants or expects from us?

I'm sure there are a few 'powerfully built directors' who have spent £1M+ on a boat on PH. Just wondering if they took any professional advice or just jumped in. As I've said, the stuff I've dealt with is many orders of magnitude more expensive, and the process is very different.

Obviously I'm not relying solely on PH for any sort of business plan, just looking for a different perspective.

[Jaguar steve]

LimaDelta said:

^^^ It's not up to me to decide how people spend their money. After all, how many supercars or aeroplanes are justifiable, sensible, or the correct decision?

That might be precisely what people want though.

Can't speak for Team Motorboat but post purchase the vast majority of sailors know exactly what they're about and the tiny minority who don't pretty quickly end up either scaring themselves and anybody else onboard absolutely stless and will never go near a boat again or on the local 6 o clock news so unless you want to train as an RYA instructor and be really, really nice to everybody and hand out pretty little laminated certificates at the end of any course there's not much you could offer somebody who already owns a boat.

But pre purchase there may be. No magazine editor with his eye on advertising revenue will ever dare to print don't buy an ABC because they're horrible old tubs to sail and go to windward with all the alacrity of a fence panel and no broker thinking about his fat commission will ever tell you don't touch that that XYZ I've got in the yard with a barge pole because the keels have a disagreeable tendency of falling off.

You need a surveyor to tell you if the keel is going to fall off, and he'll only tell you that on one particular boat on one particular day that you've already had to pay a fortune to get the yard to lift out and him another fortune to pad out his report of two paragraphs detailing what's actually amiss with that particular boat with a 10 page mixture of cut 'n paste bks about how many were made and how long it is and what colour the upholstery is alongside much wheedling about how he couldn't inspect some aspects of the boat and that others were outside his professional remit and you need to fork out for another expert for those.

So yeah - pre-purchase consultancy might be a runner. Guiding potential buyers towards a suitable boat for them.

[Fermit]

Julian PH is the man you want to speak with. He has a pretty bloody big boat.

[LimaDelta]

Jaguar steve said:

snip

You need a surveyor to tell you if the keel is going to fall off, and he'll only tell you that on one particular boat on one particular day that you've already had to pay a fortune to get the yard to lift out and him another fortune to pad out his report of two paragraphs detailing what's actually amiss with that particular boat with a 10 page mixture of cut 'n paste bks about how many were made and how long it is and what colour the upholstery is alongside much wheedling about how he couldn't inspect some aspects of the boat and that others were outside his professional remit and you need to fork out for another expert for those.

See, that's the thing with surveyors (bless them). I've dealt with a lot and understandably, they approach everything with their surveyor hat on. Most have never owned, crewed, maintained or operated a boat in their lives (certainly not in my professional experience, YMMV).

[Jaguar steve]

LimaDelta said:

See, that's the thing with surveyors (bless them). I've dealt with a lot and understandably, they approach everything with their surveyor hat arse covering absolutely no liability or responsibility here but nonetheless there's an astonishing invoice incoming trousers on.

There. FTFY

[w1bbles]

I think you’d be better off asking your questions on the YBW MoBo forum. The difference in disposable income between the big mobo owners and the yachties is staggering. I’m a pauper sailor so am definitely not your target market.

I get the impression that one skill the high end boating industry needs more of is refit project managers as client rep but (a) I’m probably wrong and (b) if you’re in superyachts you might already do that and (c) it’s not a side hustle role.

[JulianPH]

Fermit said:

Julian PH is the man you want to speak with. He has a pretty bloody big boat.

Ello, ello, ello, I heard my name had been mentiond. How are you and the Mrs mate?!

LimaDelta - With respect, I think your plan is somewhat scuppered at this stage by you asking how you can leverage your 20 year's experience in the higher end of the market to start a side business at the lower end of it. If you don't already know this then you are off to a rocky start in advising others! The fundamentals remain the same regardless of size and price.

Setting aside this rather sticky point, I'll try to be as helpful as I can and offer an approach for you to consider.

When I decided I wanted to buy one I did all the usual searching to get an idea of what exactly I was looking for and then enlisted the help of a friend (who is a long time PHer) for some thought and advice. He too has many years experience in the super and mega yacht market.

He educated me a great deal and dismissed things back then I thought were wonderful and steered me to what was better in terms of build, reliability, running costs, ongoing ownership costs and pretty much everything else.

His knowledge was so invaluable I moved to a retainer with him and he acted as broker and then manager of my boat, covering all aspects of registry, insurance, refitting, crew recuritment, maintenence and even captained it himslef for a season (which he fancied). He also covered all the chartering out I did during Covid and personally captained the boat from Southampton to the Algarve when I decided to move it there (it took over a year for a berth to become available).

Over my short 3 years or so of ownership what he taught me and explained to me in the early days seems ridiculously obvious now, but until you have lived with boat ownership you just wouldn't have a clue.

So my advice would be to take your experience and write it down under sections which you would envisage being your service proposition to first time buyers. You have to remember that what you know is well beyond the scope of such people and would be extremely valuable to them. This therefore becomes your niche market - first time buyers.

I know of no one offering such a tailored service (though a great many companies will say anything to sell a boat to anyone) and if there is one thing guaranteed it that if your service is good they won't turn to anyone else for their second, thirds and so on boats.

So your comodity may be what you already know - but your problem that don't realise its value. Boat buyers want someone they can fully trust, has all the relevant knowledge and knows what to look out for. This is the same with repeat buyers, the difference is that they will have formed such a relationship with someone else years ago.

I would certianly never consider buying another boat without the advice of the guy who did all this for me the first time round - and I know a great deal more than I did then. I was looking at boats smaller and bigger than I eventually went for without and realy understanding of the different implications I would face after the purchase (marina fees, crewing requirements, maintenence cost, insurance, even marian berth availability in many places).

This is before you move onto what useage you want from the boat and its ability to adapt should this change. Under the glossy surface there is obviously the plethora of issues and considerations from a mechanical, hydraulic, electrical, pipework and technical perspective to consider and advice is crucial in this.

I'm going on now, but I think you should consider if your skill set, knowledge and experience lends itself to this type of proposition/business.

I hope that is of some constructive help!

[Jaguar steve]

w1bbles said:

I think you’d be better off asking your questions on the YBW MoBo forum. The difference in disposable income between the big mobo owners and the yachties is staggering.

YBW forum is of course the answer here, but as far as disposable income goes between sailors and mobo persons is - depends.

Bought any sails recently for example? I have, and what that cost would have bough a hellava lot of diesel as well as kept any of our local Essex mobo operative in polish and captains caps and loudly branded clothing and matching sunglasses for a very long time indeed.

Edited by Jaguar steve on Saturday 29th April 08:12

[LimaDelta]

Thanks Julian, some great points raised.

JulianPH said:

LimaDelta - With respect, I think your plan is somewhat scuppered at this stage by you asking how you can leverage your 20 year's experience in the higher end of the market to start a side business at the lower end of it. If you don't already know this then you are off to a rocky start in advising others! The fundamentals remain the same regardless of size and price.

I know what I can offer, I just don't know if anyone wants it.

JulianPH said:

He educated me a great deal and dismissed things back then I thought were wonderful and steered me to what was better in terms of build, reliability, running costs, ongoing ownership costs and pretty much everything else.

This is what I'm thinking. Not necessarily recommending a different product, but perhaps offering a more real-world insight than would be gleaned from a glossy brochure and a slick salesman.

JulianPH said:

This is before you move onto what useage you want from the boat and its ability to adapt should this change. Under the glossy surface there is obviously the plethora of issues and considerations from a mechanical, hydraulic, electrical, pipework and technical perspective to consider and advice is crucial in this.

My background is engineering. I think there are plenty of Captains/sailors out there but the engineering side is still a bit of a dark art for some (an obviously a huge part of the ongoing costs of ownership).

Just out of curiosity, is yours over or under 24m?

[Fermit]

JulianPH said:

Ello, ello, ello, I heard my name had been mentiond. How are you and the Mrs mate?!

Yeah, we're not bad. All well at your end? Clocked a certain house up for sale recently, which really surprised me!

Tried calling you a few times recently, will try again at some point.

[JulianPH]

Fermit said:

JulianPH said:

Ello, ello, ello, I heard my name had been mentiond. How are you and the Mrs mate?!

Yeah, we're not bad. All well at your end? Clocked a certain house up for sale recently, which really surprised me!

Tried calling you a few times recently, will try again at some point.

Glad to hear it mate. All great my end and I guess you have been calling my home number in the UK - I live in Portugal now (hence you seeing my UK home has gone on the market - I've only been back for 4 days over the last year and so there is no point in me keeping it!).

Ping me an email and I'll give you my mobile.