Please help ID old fighter.

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Kawasicki

Original Poster:

13,462 posts

242 months

Sunday 26th March 2023
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What is it? Any interesting facts about it?


Yertis

18,665 posts

273 months

Sunday 26th March 2023
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Macci MC202 Folgore

Kawasicki

Original Poster:

13,462 posts

242 months

Sunday 26th March 2023
quotequote all
Yertis said:
Macci MC202 Folgore
Thank you!

Edited to add that I think it might be a Macchi MC205 Veltro, due to the presence of the oil coolers unter the nose.

I would never have looked at Macchi without your help, so thanks again!


Edited by Kawasicki on Sunday 26th March 09:26

GliderRider

2,527 posts

88 months

Sunday 26th March 2023
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Kawasicki said:
Yertis said:
Macci MC202 Folgore
Thank you!

Edited to add that I think it might be a Macchi MC205 Veltro, due to the presence of the oil coolers unter the nose.

I would never have looked at Macchi without your help, so thanks again!
There's another clue to its identity here:



Powered by a licence-built version of the German Daimler Benz DB605, the Veltro (Greyhound) was a well respected fighter capable of 400mph and carrying two 20mm MG151 cannon and tow 12.7mm (0.5") Breda machine guns.

Edited by GliderRider on Sunday 26th March 12:51


Edited by GliderRider on Sunday 26th March 14:03

Eric Mc

122,854 posts

272 months

Sunday 26th March 2023
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Italian fighters of World War 2 are very pretty, especially when fitted with the German Daimler Benz 601/605 engines.

FourWheelDrift

89,617 posts

291 months

Sunday 26th March 2023
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Kawasicki said:
Any interesting facts about it?
That one is a replica.

Here it is being displayed at a scale models event, near the Italeri stand.

Kawasicki

Original Poster:

13,462 posts

242 months

Sunday 26th March 2023
quotequote all
GliderRider said:
There's another clue to its identity here:



Powered by a licence-built version of the German Daimler Benz DB605, the Veltro (Greyhound was a well respected fighter capable of 400mph and carrying two 20mm MG151 cannon and tow 12.7mm (0.5") Breda machine guns.

Edited by GliderRider on Sunday 26th March 12:51
That’s funny!

Kawasicki

Original Poster:

13,462 posts

242 months

Sunday 26th March 2023
quotequote all
Eric Mc said:
Italian fighters of World War 2 are very pretty, especially when fitted with the German Daimler Benz 601/605 engines.
Yep, very pretty.

Kawasicki

Original Poster:

13,462 posts

242 months

Sunday 26th March 2023
quotequote all
FourWheelDrift said:
Kawasicki said:
Any interesting facts about it?
That one is a replica.

Here it is being displayed at a scale models event, near the Italeri stand.
Cheers!

Simpo Two

87,036 posts

272 months

Sunday 26th March 2023
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FourWheelDrift said:
Here it is being displayed at a scale models event, near the Italeri stand.
Certain parts of it look a bit Hawkerish from that angle.

Macchi designed some lovely aircraft - MC72:



dr_gn

16,406 posts

191 months

Sunday 26th March 2023
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Kawasicki said:
What is it? Any interesting facts about it?

I built its predecessor in 1:72, the 202 Folgore. The 205 replica in your photo had pretty much the same wing, which caused some alarm when building my model; I thought it was moulded incorrectly, but…interesting fact… it was actually designed with one wing longer than the other to compensate for engine torque.

The license built DB601/605 fighters look better than the ‘109 to my eyes. Here’s my 202 with the other 601 engined fighters I've built, the Kawasaki Ki-61 and Bf.109 E-4:



2xChevrons

3,522 posts

87 months

Sunday 26th March 2023
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Eric Brown (who commanded the unit that tested and assessed Axis aircraft acquired after the war and - I think - still holds the record for the number of different aircraft types piloted in a career) was very complementary about Italian aircraft as flying machines, and the Veltro especially:

Eric Brown said:
"One of the finest aircraft I ever flew was the Macchi MC.205. Oh, beautiful. And here you had the perfect combination of Italian styling and German engineering. I believe it was powered by a Daimler Benz DB 605. It was really a delight to fly, and up to anything on the Allied programme. But again, it came just before the Italians capitulated so it was never used extensively. And we did tests on it and were most impressed. The cockpit was smallish but not as bad as the Bf 109."
The Luftwaffe also assessed the MC.205 (and the other two Italian 'Serie 5' fighters) and were surprised by how good they all were. The MC.205 was rated the 'least good' of the three, but was still judged to be equal overall to a contemporary Bf109. The Luftwaffe was seriously impressed by the Fiat G.55 and considered developing and producing it as a Bf109 successor. The MC.205 was judged to have insufficient development potential, since it was essentially an upgraded version of the MC.202, itself a re-engined and close-cockpit version of the 1937-vintage MC.200.

Italian equipment in WW2 was widely considered a bit of a joke. Some of it was (no more or less than some of the stuff fielded by other combatants) and a lot of it was relatively outdated: Italy suffered from a relatively small and under-developed industrial base, and (a tad ironically) from being the only major power to maintain military spending in the 1920s/early 1930s. Under Mussolini the Italian armed forces went on a major modernisation/expansion drive in that period, but the country didn't have the economic or industrial strength to keep up that pace of development and re-equipment. So in the early/mid-1930s Italy boasted some of the most modern and effective military equipment on land, sea and air in the world. In air force terms, the Italian Air Force was top-grade in the mid-1930 and fielded superb examples of biplane fighters, lumbering trimotor bombers and twin-hull maritime patrol flying boats, all of which would be rendered obsolete in a few years' time and Italy couldn't develop or produce replacements quickly enough or in sufficient volumes.

The 'Serie 5' fighters were all highly-regarded but relied on licensed German engines and were not designed for mass-production - what turned the Germans against the idea of building the G.55 was that in terms of man-hours for every one G.55 you could build three Bf109s or nearly two Fw190s. Even if they had been, Italy's industrial base was being knocked out piece by piece and the country was then falling apart politically. Italian aerial doctrine was also quite outdated (having been world-class a decade earlier, like their aircraft) and even the Serie 5 designs prioritised manoeuvrability, agility and control harmony over speed, firepower or armour. They were lightly (and unreliably) armed and tended to have weak fuselages (although the proven MC.205 was rather better here).