Ramp Agent Fatality 31 Dec 2022 Montgomery
Discussion
I'm sure I saw a thread on this but I can't find it.
Absolutely nasty as a ramp agent was sucked into an engine
Perhaps foolishly I didn't realise modern engines on commercial jets are that powerful at idle.
Anyway quite happy to be corrected by people who actually know about this stuff but this seemed a fairly "good" overview now the NTSB report has been released.
Absolutely nasty as a ramp agent was sucked into an engine
Perhaps foolishly I didn't realise modern engines on commercial jets are that powerful at idle.
Anyway quite happy to be corrected by people who actually know about this stuff but this seemed a fairly "good" overview now the NTSB report has been released.
The fact their dangerous on idle is something you don’t NEED to know, the ground handlers on the other hand do know, specifically because of not one but TWO safety briefings immediately before the flight arrival. Very sad, but not something she will repeat, I am sure the witnesses will be highlighting traumatised though, and repeat it many times. Very sad.
Saw this reviewed this week on the Bloncoliro YT channel linked above.
Absolutely horrific.
Very strange when you consider the prior briefings before the aircraft arrival. One can only assume a momentary lapse in concentration? It was New Year’s Eve, maybe end of the shift? Mind and concentration elsewhere?
It doesn’t even bear thinking about, as crew of the aircraft and passengers disembarking.
Grim.
Absolutely horrific.
Very strange when you consider the prior briefings before the aircraft arrival. One can only assume a momentary lapse in concentration? It was New Year’s Eve, maybe end of the shift? Mind and concentration elsewhere?
It doesn’t even bear thinking about, as crew of the aircraft and passengers disembarking.
Grim.
It's interesting though horrific for those who aren't in that industry as I naively assumed with so many flights coming and going at airports that it didn't go down to the level of multiple safety briefings for every single flight.
Silly question time now.
When I've got on and off flights where you have to walk on the apron the engine blades have often been visibly moving and turning but what looks like ever so slowly.
Surely that can't be the speed we're talking about here?
Silly question time now.
When I've got on and off flights where you have to walk on the apron the engine blades have often been visibly moving and turning but what looks like ever so slowly.
Surely that can't be the speed we're talking about here?
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hstewie said:
hstewie said: It's interesting though horrific for those who aren't in that industry as I naively assumed with so many flights coming and going at airports that it didn't go down to the level of multiple safety briefings for every single flight.
Silly question time now.
When I've got on and off flights where you have to walk on the apron the engine blades have often been visibly moving and turning but what looks like ever so slowly.
Surely that can't be the speed we're talking about here?
The blades will turn for quite a while after shutdown as the bearings are just that good. If they have cooled down a bit, you'll often hear clattering too as the blades flop over as they pass the 12 o'clock position - the heat makes them expand into place. Silly question time now.
When I've got on and off flights where you have to walk on the apron the engine blades have often been visibly moving and turning but what looks like ever so slowly.
Surely that can't be the speed we're talking about here?
pteron said:
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: It's interesting though horrific for those who aren't in that industry as I naively assumed with so many flights coming and going at airports that it didn't go down to the level of multiple safety briefings for every single flight.
Silly question time now.
When I've got on and off flights where you have to walk on the apron the engine blades have often been visibly moving and turning but what looks like ever so slowly.
Surely that can't be the speed we're talking about here?
The blades will turn for quite a while after shutdown as the bearings are just that good. If they have cooled down a bit, you'll often hear clattering too as the blades flop over as they pass the 12 o'clock position - the heat makes them expand into place. Silly question time now.
When I've got on and off flights where you have to walk on the apron the engine blades have often been visibly moving and turning but what looks like ever so slowly.
Surely that can't be the speed we're talking about here?
Jim H said:
Saw this reviewed this week on the Bloncoliro YT channel linked above.
Absolutely horrific.
Very strange when you consider the prior briefings before the aircraft arrival. One can only assume a momentary lapse in concentration? It was New Year’s Eve, maybe end of the shift? Mind and concentration elsewhere?
I think it has to be more than a momentary lapse, given the amount of 'ignoring of so many things in a short space of time'.....Absolutely horrific.
Very strange when you consider the prior briefings before the aircraft arrival. One can only assume a momentary lapse in concentration? It was New Year’s Eve, maybe end of the shift? Mind and concentration elsewhere?
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: When I've got on and off flights where you have to walk on the apron the engine blades have often been visibly moving and turning but what looks like ever so slowly.
Surely that can't be the speed we're talking about here?
At max power the front fan on the CF34-8E engine used in this particular aircraft is going almost 8000rpm (core doing 17,000rpm+) so at idle, which is approx 52% Nr2 (52% of 17,000 core or 8000rpm for the front fan), that means the front fan will still be going almost 4200rpm, if my maths checks out.Surely that can't be the speed we're talking about here?
There's a data sheet for the GE CF-348E engine where all this sort of data can be found.
pteron said:
The blades will turn for quite a while after shutdown as the bearings are just that good. If they have cooled down a bit, you'll often hear clattering too as the blades flop over as they pass the 12 o'clock position - the heat makes them expand into place.
As the rotation speed and centrifugal force increases, they move in the mounts and establish individual lead/lag positions to achieve a balanced disc. Nothing to do with heat.Jim H said:
Is it unusual for aircraft to arrive like this?
Without the APU functioning? And the engines running at power?
What I mean is it a rare occurrence?
One can only wonder was the employee experienced in the role?
Yes, more common than you think. Airports have all the necessary equipment to start engines. I assume the engines were running to provide power to the aircraft.Without the APU functioning? And the engines running at power?
What I mean is it a rare occurrence?
One can only wonder was the employee experienced in the role?
It staggers me that tragic incidents like this still happen in the modern world.
pteron said:
The blades will turn for quite a while after shutdown as the bearings are just that good. If they have cooled down a bit, you'll often hear clattering too as the blades flop over as they pass the 12 o'clock position - the heat makes them expand into place.
Not quite - they 'lock' into place via centrifugal force. The disc/hub that the blades locate in is quite a way forward from the 'hot bits' and is being blasted busy cold air. It doesn't really get that warm at all.
They will also just windmill due to wind blowing through, pretty well balanced to keep vibes to a minimum.
Jakey123 said:
pteron said:
The blades will turn for quite a while after shutdown as the bearings are just that good. If they have cooled down a bit, you'll often hear clattering too as the blades flop over as they pass the 12 o'clock position - the heat makes them expand into place.
Not quite - they 'lock' into place via centrifugal force. The disc/hub that the blades locate in is quite a way forward from the 'hot bits' and is being blasted busy cold air. It doesn't really get that warm at all.
They will also just windmill due to wind blowing through, pretty well balanced to keep vibes to a minimum.
swampy442 said:
It staggers me that tragic incidents like this still happen in the modern world.
It doesn't stagger me.You can wrap people up their whole life in cotton wool and bubble wrap, and H&S tickboxing culture, warning signs and hi-viz and everything else, BUT, you are still ultimately dealing with fallible human beings.....who will make mistakes, get distracted, not be blessed with high levels of intelligence, or high levels of irresponsibility, simply shouldn't be doing the job they are, etc.,etc.....
aeropilot said:
swampy442 said:
It staggers me that tragic incidents like this still happen in the modern world.
It doesn't stagger me.You can wrap people up their whole life in cotton wool and bubble wrap, and H&S tickboxing culture, warning signs and hi-viz and everything else, BUT, you are still ultimately dealing with fallible human beings.....who will make mistakes, get distracted, not be blessed with high levels of intelligence, or high levels of irresponsibility, simply shouldn't be doing the job they are, etc.,etc.....
Absolutely this ^
I work in the Nuclear industry and I’m very involved in the production of Risk Assessments etc for high hazard tasks.
You can try and capture everything you can possibly conceive occurring and mitigate against it with words and how it will be controlled.
But you can never rule out the human factor and someone having a bad day, incidents do still happen.
Many thanks for the replies about the clanking of the turbine blades when wind milling.
I’d often wondered why they sounded so rough when I’ve disembarked an aircraft.
bhstewie said:
"We don’t have any details yet about how exactly this happened, other than the ground handling company stating that this was unrelated to the company’s “operational processes, safety procedures and policies.”hstewie said:Nice to see the employer getting their towel on the "not our fault" sunbed good & early...
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