Search for buried Spitfire, again
Discussion
Heard about this, sunken Spitfire, on the radio the other morning, I was half asleep so wasn’t 100% sure what I was hearing, so Google sent me to the page in the link. Maybe it’s been discussed already on here? Interesting story anyway.
Wolfracesonic, as you say, an interesting story. Having been on the Broads I can imagine just how difficult it would have been to recover the Spitfire at the time.
Its pretty sobering to read how just many of those who flew AD377 did not make it through the war. Particularly Rudolf Borovec, killed whilst trying to get parts for a radio.
Its pretty sobering to read how just many of those who flew AD377 did not make it through the war. Particularly Rudolf Borovec, killed whilst trying to get parts for a radio.
GliderRider said:
Wolfracesonic, as you say, an interesting story. Having been on the Broads I can imagine just how difficult it would have been to recover the Spitfire at the time.
The Broads are quite shallow (most less than 12' deep); more important I think was that a crashed/sunken Spitfire was no big deal at the time, easier just to build another one than commit war resources to a salvage that wouldn't help the war.
Simpo Two said:
GliderRider said:
Wolfracesonic, as you say, an interesting story. Having been on the Broads I can imagine just how difficult it would have been to recover the Spitfire at the time.
The Broads are quite shallow (most less than 12' deep); more important I think was that a crashed/sunken Spitfire was no big deal at the time, easier just to build another one than commit war resources to a salvage that wouldn't help the war.I assume this one will never fly again, but something that has always bothered me is that there are loads of reasonably complete static warbirds inside museums all around the world. Why not just buy one of them and restore it to flying condition, rather than exhuming a rotten wreck and building it up with 99% non original parts?
LotusOmega375D said:
I assume this one will never fly again, but something that has always bothered me is that there are loads of reasonably complete static warbirds inside museums all around the world. Why not just buy one of them and restore it to flying condition, rather than exhuming a rotten wreck and building it up with 99% non original parts?
You can only buy from a museum if -a) the museum actually owns the exhibit (not every item on display in a museum is theirs to sell)
b) they are willing to sell
Yes, I get that, but if you waved a high 6 figure (or even low 7 figure) cheque at the owner, that might be all their Christmases come at once, or keep a small museum going along nicely thank you for quite some time. Are there any recent examples of warbirds being restored to flight from museum collections?
It's not like that to be honest.
Most small museums these days are not in possession of genuine Spitfires. The ones that were available have long since been bought by restorers. Spitfires sitting in museums tend to be part of large (often state owned) collections and these are only rarely made available to buyers for resoration to flight.
For instance, the UK government had a big clear out in the late 1980s with state owned Spitfires being released for sale. Most of these were gate guardians sitting outside RAF stations and their sale actually was a good thing because otherwise they would have simply rotted away.
At the end of the day, even restoring a static museum piece to airworthy status would require a huge amount of replacement of parts. I would expect restoring a wreck buried on a beach or in a bog is not that much more difficult to restoring something that sat untouched (mechanically speaking) in a museum for 60 odd years. I bet you would find that in both cases at least 80% of the restored airframe would be brand new.
Look at the time and effort that is being put into getting the Lancaster NX611 (Just Jane) back in the air - and that is a fully working aircraft - not one that just sat there gathering dust and gradually seizing up.
Most small museums these days are not in possession of genuine Spitfires. The ones that were available have long since been bought by restorers. Spitfires sitting in museums tend to be part of large (often state owned) collections and these are only rarely made available to buyers for resoration to flight.
For instance, the UK government had a big clear out in the late 1980s with state owned Spitfires being released for sale. Most of these were gate guardians sitting outside RAF stations and their sale actually was a good thing because otherwise they would have simply rotted away.
At the end of the day, even restoring a static museum piece to airworthy status would require a huge amount of replacement of parts. I would expect restoring a wreck buried on a beach or in a bog is not that much more difficult to restoring something that sat untouched (mechanically speaking) in a museum for 60 odd years. I bet you would find that in both cases at least 80% of the restored airframe would be brand new.
Look at the time and effort that is being put into getting the Lancaster NX611 (Just Jane) back in the air - and that is a fully working aircraft - not one that just sat there gathering dust and gradually seizing up.
LotusOmega375D said:
I assume this one will never fly again
As already said, if they find an intact data plate, it will fly again (well the data plate will) especially given its what is known as a 'baby' Spit.LotusOmega375D said:
but something that has always bothered me is that there are loads of reasonably complete static warbirds inside museums all around the world. Why not just buy one of them and restore it to flying condition, rather than exhuming a rotten wreck and building it up with 99% non original parts?
Why, because those museums don't want to sell them!LotusOmega375D said:
Are there any recent examples of warbirds being restored to flight from museum collections?
I can't think of any since OFMC acquired that La-9 from a museum in China back in the 1980's, and Pioneer Aero in NZ restored it to fly. Its now with Jerry Yagens collection in the USA and hasn't been flown for over a decade now.The RAFM museum put up a large selection of aircraft for sale about a year or so ago, which was deemed not core exhibit and surplus to requirements, which included the sole surviving 2-seat Fw190A that had for many years been kept in ground running condition by the techs at RAF St.Athan up until the mid 1980's.
That may well end up in Germany or USA and be returned to airworthy, unless RAFM have put a silly huge price against it?
Not heard if any of the list they put have been sold by now and to who?
I think some US stuff has come out of some small local musuems in the past that have sold up their collections, but nothing has come out of any national/state museums over there.
Edited by aeropilot on Thursday 5th January 11:48
LotusOmega375D said:
Thanks guys. There are some non Spitfire rarities in museums which I would love to see back in the air. You only have to wander round the RAF museums to see things like a Stuka, He111, Tempest, Typhoon, Defiant, Battle, Wellington, Halifax, Liberator, etc.
Never going to happen with anything super rare, or sole survivor type.....that is held by a museum.Charles Church acquired the Fairey Battle R3950 from the defunct Strathallan Collection in the late 80's with a view to restoring it to fly, but that ended when he died not long afterwards when he crashed in his Spitfire V.
HAC then acquired it from the estate, and later exchanged it with the Brussels Royal Army Museum for Spitfire XIV RN201, which has since been restored to airworthy.
So, that was a national museum disposing of a Spitfire, that was surplus to its needs but only for something more rare and important to their collection.
In some ways yes. There is a thriving cottage industry in manufacturing replacement components for Spitfires - and some other warbirds too - such as the Hawker Hurricane.
There was an excellent series on Channel 5 last year about Peter Monk's Spitfire business at Biggin Hill which is well worth a watch if you want to see what is involved in getting a Spitfire airworthy.
There was an excellent series on Channel 5 last year about Peter Monk's Spitfire business at Biggin Hill which is well worth a watch if you want to see what is involved in getting a Spitfire airworthy.
Yertis said:
I guess Spits are like the MGs or Triumphs of the warbird world – it's relatively easy (if a lot more expensive) to get hold anything you need.
Yep.P-51's and Spit by the very fact that's there's a lot more of them around than anything else, means they are 'easier' to restore, as economies of scale mean its viable to reproduce more than one of any part as its likely that there are multiple ongoing projects that will want the same new part.
Not so with many (or most) other types....apart from maybe the P-40.
FourWheelDrift said:
If it's been well preserved and the damage not too bad I'd expect a 100% original Mk Vb restored with no new parts would be a major exhibit, if it's more damaged requiring new parts then the decision to fix and display or replace more parts and make airworthy will be taken.
Not a chance of 100% original - the tail is missing for starters. Gassing Station | Boats, Planes & Trains | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff