Flying pencil

Author
Discussion

tracer.smart

Original Poster:

656 posts

218 months

Saturday 1st December 2018
quotequote all
Is anything happening with that Dornier 17 pulled up from Goodwin Sands?

All gone a bit quiet. Only info online I can find seems to be old.

Is it assembled yet, or has it all crumbled into aluminium flakes?


CanAm

10,041 posts

279 months

Saturday 1st December 2018
quotequote all
I wouldn't worry; the classic aircraft restoration world is as skilled as the classic car restoration world in recreating vehicles from an unbelievably small collection of parts.

anonymous-user

61 months

Saturday 1st December 2018
quotequote all
I thought it was going to eventually end up at Hendon in an “as recovered” state. I imagine it is still at Cosford, although things have gone quiet.

Eric Mc

122,854 posts

272 months

Sunday 2nd December 2018
quotequote all
It is still in the process of being stabilised after decades immersed in salt water. It has to undergo a process similar to that applied to the Mary Rose to halt any further corrosion of the airframe. This will take a number of years.

This was the situation about one year ago -

"And their skills were certainly put to the test when engineers worked on possibly one of their most complicated projects, the Dornier Do 17. The remains of the last Dornier Do 17 bomber lie sheltered from the elements in the centre as part of a project to conserve them for future generations.

The Germans built 1,500 of the bombers. The one now sitting in the Conservation Centre at RAF Museum Cosford was raised from the bottom of the Strait of Dover in the English Channel more than three years ago. It is the last remaining example

The Dornier and its many small components were sprayed with a citric acid solution for months in order to clear them of debris from their time under the water.

It is now drying out, before the conservation centre and project adviser, Professor Mary Ryan from the Imperial College London work out the best way for it to go on display.

Mr Priday said: “That was certainly one of the most complicated because it was an unknown.”


yellowjack

17,258 posts

173 months

Sunday 2nd December 2018
quotequote all
It's the "last of it's kind". Accepted.


But...


...what happened to the ones that ended up in British hands during/at the end of WW2?



Two from Yugoslavia (including the one pictured above, I think) were "destroyed in an air attack on 27th August 1941". A number of them were flown out of Croatia to Italy and surrendered to Allied forces in May1945. And, according to Wikipedia at least, the Finns didn't scrap their last 5 aircraft until 1952.

It'd be amusing if, after all this effort to preserve one they pulled out of the sea, one turned up parked in a barn somewhere in the Balkans, with it's wings stacked neatly next to it...

Eric Mc

122,854 posts

272 months

Monday 3rd December 2018
quotequote all
It would be nice if they found a few more. The RAF Museum example has specific Battle of Britain history so does have a bit more relevance to British aviation history.

aeropilot

36,539 posts

234 months

Monday 3rd December 2018
quotequote all
yellowjack said:
It's the "last of it's kind". Accepted.


But...


...what happened to the ones that ended up in British hands during/at the end of WW2?

Scrapped, like most of the stuff was post-war.

You'd be surprised how much rare WW2 stuff (allied and axis) was still around in the early/mid 50's that still ended up just being scrapped.


StoatInACoat

1,355 posts

192 months

Monday 3rd December 2018
quotequote all
On that note, this is fascinating (subjectively I suppose!) way to waste a few hours!

https://wwiiafterwwii.wordpress.com/

lufbramatt

5,427 posts

141 months

Monday 3rd December 2018
quotequote all
yellowjack said:
It's the "last of it's kind". Accepted.


But...


...what happened to the ones that ended up in British hands during/at the end of WW2?



Two from Yugoslavia (including the one pictured above, I think) were "destroyed in an air attack on 27th August 1941". A number of them were flown out of Croatia to Italy and surrendered to Allied forces in May1945. And, according to Wikipedia at least, the Finns didn't scrap their last 5 aircraft until 1952.

It'd be amusing if, after all this effort to preserve one they pulled out of the sea, one turned up parked in a barn somewhere in the Balkans, with it's wings stacked neatly next to it...
Bit like what happened with the DeHavilland Sea Hornet- some big chunks of one turned up in Canada recently IIRC- enough to form the basis of a flier- previously there were thought to be none left.

irocfan

42,390 posts

197 months

Monday 3rd December 2018
quotequote all
StoatInACoat said:
On that note, this is fascinating (subjectively I suppose!) way to waste a few hours!

https://wwiiafterwwii.wordpress.com/
it's a great website, this was one I remembered from the last time I looked at it...

https://wwiiafterwwii.wordpress.com/2016/09/04/pan...

tracer.smart

Original Poster:

656 posts

218 months

Friday 17th April 2020
quotequote all
Eric Mc said:
It is still in the process of being stabilised after decades immersed in salt water. It has to undergo a process similar to that applied to the Mary Rose to halt any further corrosion of the airframe. This will take a number of years.

This was the situation about one year ago -

"And their skills were certainly put to the test when engineers worked on possibly one of their most complicated projects, the Dornier Do 17. The remains of the last Dornier Do 17 bomber lie sheltered from the elements in the centre as part of a project to conserve them for future generations.

The Germans built 1,500 of the bombers. The one now sitting in the Conservation Centre at RAF Museum Cosford was raised from the bottom of the Strait of Dover in the English Channel more than three years ago. It is the last remaining example

The Dornier and its many small components were sprayed with a citric acid solution for months in order to clear them of debris from their time under the water.

It is now drying out, before the conservation centre and project adviser, Professor Mary Ryan from the Imperial College London work out the best way for it to go on display.

Mr Priday said: “That was certainly one of the most complicated because it was an unknown.”
Did they work out the best way to display pre the lockdown?

Three years is a lot of conservation - surely it is approaching readiness for the full exhibition.



Eric Mc

122,854 posts

272 months

Friday 17th April 2020
quotequote all
I would say we won't see it displayed properly for at least another ten years. It is on view on open days at the Sir Michael Beetham Restoration Facility at Cosford. I got a good look at it in November last year and it is far from being ready for display.

tracer.smart

Original Poster:

656 posts

218 months

Saturday 18th April 2020
quotequote all
Eric Mc said:
I would say we won't see it displayed properly for at least another ten years. It is on view on open days at the Sir Michael Beetham Restoration Facility at Cosford. I got a good look at it in November last year and it is far from being ready for display.
Did you take any pics you can share please Eric?

10 years plus the 3 it’s been in conservation already... does that mean they are rebuilding it versus just cleaning it up and hanging the bits on a steel frame?

Eric Mc

122,854 posts

272 months

Saturday 18th April 2020
quotequote all
They are currently stabilising it. It takes a long time.

You need to realise the the RAF Museum's restoration has a very tiny staff - less than ten individuals - and they are working on about five projects at the same time. In the shop last November was their Messerschmitt 410, Vickers Wellington, Handley Page Hampden, the Dornier and various other bits and pieces from other aircraft.

I actually have some video footage from the day which I will try and load up to You Tube and provide a link.

aeropilot

36,539 posts

234 months

Saturday 18th April 2020
quotequote all
Eric Mc said:
They are currently stabilising it. It takes a long time.
Exactly.

You can't just pull up an aluminium and other metals structure that has been under salt water and sand/silt for 75 years and just leave it exposed to the air again, as it would turn to a pile of dust in a very short time.

It has to be sprayed and treated over an extended period of time before it can be left exposed to the air.

Its similar to what they had to do with the wreck of the Mary Rose when they lifted that nearly 40 years ago, except that its an easier process with timber compared to reactive aluminum.


heisthegaffer

3,647 posts

205 months

Saturday 18th April 2020
quotequote all
aeropilot said:
Exactly.

You can't just pull up an aluminium and other metals structure that has been under salt water and sand/silt for 75 years and just leave it exposed to the air again, as it would turn to a pile of dust in a very short time.

It has to be sprayed and treated over an extended period of time before it can be left exposed to the air.

Its similar to what they had to do with the wreck of the Mary Rose when they lifted that nearly 40 years ago, except that its an easier process with timber compared to reactive aluminum.
Possibly the dullest thing you may read today but when the Mary Rose was first shown to the public, me and my family went to see it for free using Blue Peter badges we'd received after rescuing a baby blackbird we found in our back garden and called it fluffy.

aeropilot

36,539 posts

234 months

Saturday 18th April 2020
quotequote all
heisthegaffer said:
aeropilot said:
Exactly.

You can't just pull up an aluminium and other metals structure that has been under salt water and sand/silt for 75 years and just leave it exposed to the air again, as it would turn to a pile of dust in a very short time.

It has to be sprayed and treated over an extended period of time before it can be left exposed to the air.

Its similar to what they had to do with the wreck of the Mary Rose when they lifted that nearly 40 years ago, except that its an easier process with timber compared to reactive aluminum.
Possibly the dullest thing you may read today but when the Mary Rose was first shown to the public, me and my family went to see it for free using Blue Peter badges we'd received after rescuing a baby blackbird we found in our back garden and called it fluffy.
laugh

I was actually partly involved in the recovery project, I was one of the draughtsmen involved in drawing up the steel cradle lifting frame used to support the remains of the ship as it was lifted up and in the dry dock afterwards.



Johnnybee

2,323 posts

228 months

Saturday 18th April 2020
quotequote all
aeropilot said:
laugh

I was actually partly involved in the recovery project, I was one of the draughtsmen involved in drawing up the steel cradle lifting frame used to support the remains of the ship as it was lifted up and in the dry dock afterwards.
Not the part that gave way as the ship was first lifted I hope wink

aeropilot

36,539 posts

234 months

Saturday 18th April 2020
quotequote all
Johnnybee said:
aeropilot said:
laugh

I was actually partly involved in the recovery project, I was one of the draughtsmen involved in drawing up the steel cradle lifting frame used to support the remains of the ship as it was lifted up and in the dry dock afterwards.
Not the part that gave way as the ship was first lifted I hope wink
It was one (or couple) of the hundreds of steel pins that were drilled through the ship timbers that failed that caused the upper lifting frame to drop onto part of the remains. There was no failure of the upper lifting frame, or any failure of the lower cradle frame (the bit I worked on) smile


Johnnybee

2,323 posts

228 months

Saturday 18th April 2020
quotequote all
thumbup